Zone1 God of the Old Testament and New Testament

[theHawk]

Completely delusional. The Pharisees were a small sect of Jews that interpreted scripture in a certain way. Are Protestants correct if they call Catholics corrupt? What about the reverse. You can't define what real Jews are since the vast majority rejected Christian's claims that Jesus was the Messiah. Christians were considered heretics by most Jews but, besides being ejected from synagogues, they were largely ignored until Christians gained political power and began persecuting Jews.


Judaism has been reinvented, it had nothing to do with Christianity but everything to do with the destruction of the Temple by the Romans.

I most certainly can define what a real Jew is.

Protestants may be correct in pointing out some corrupt people in the Church, but that does not make their heresies correct or their churches in the right. Just look at all the Protestant churches that now say homosexuals can get married. It’s fallen flat on its face and clear they are being led away from God by Satan.

 

[alang1216]

I most certainly can define what a real Jew is.

Delusions of grandeur.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Completely delusional. The Pharisees were a small sect of Jews that interpreted scripture in a certain way. Are Protestants correct if they call Catholics corrupt? What about the reverse. You can't define what real Jews are since the vast majority rejected Christian's claims that Jesus was the Messiah. Christians were considered heretics by most Jews but, besides being ejected from synagogues, they were largely ignored until Christians gained political power and began persecuting Jews.


Judaism has been reinvented, it had nothing to do with Christianity but everything to do with the destruction of the Temple by the Romans.

Christofascists Thirst for Blood

Jews were already saved, according to the covenant Jehovah made to Abraham and the Law given to Moses. Then Jehovah sent his Son to save the Gentiles. Only sick people needing other people to persecute would read the Bible any other way. But having tamed the Jews, Christians needed to split up between Protestants and Catholics to feed their lust for war.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Was God different in Old Testament times compared to New Testament times? Origen, one of the Church fathers, lived 185-253. He addressed this question, which was being asked in his day: Why was God so harsh on the Amalekites?

Origen thought about this, deciding the Bible had to be read as a whole, particularly considering the last book, Revelation, where the Lamb (Jesus) opened the scroll (the Bible). This will show how early on the Catholic Church did not take every Biblical story literally, how allegory was often used.

What is your take: Did God literally command the deaths of all the Amalekites, their crops and animals destroyed? If so, why that command?

No. There is no difference. Jesus taught His followers how to conduct their PERSONAL lives. The OT was for Israel AS A NATION.

When He Returns you will see the OT God -- MANY will die fighting Him

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Did God literally command the deaths of all the Amalekites, their crops and animals destroyed? If so, why that command?

Yes. And the Jesus you may or may not know will do the same at His return.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Jews were already saved, according to the covenant Jehovah made to Abraham and the Law given to Moses

No they are not

The covenant with ISRAEL was a NATIONAL covenant, not a spiritual one

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Was God different in Old Testament times compared to New Testament times? Origen, one of the Church fathers, lived 185-253. He addressed this question, which was being asked in his day: Why was God so harsh on the Amalekites?

Origen thought about this, deciding the Bible had to be read as a whole, particularly considering the last book, Revelation, where the Lamb (Jesus) opened the scroll (the Bible). This will show how early on the Catholic Church did not take every Biblical story literally, how allegory was often used.

What is your take: Did God literally command the deaths of all the Amalekites, their crops and animals destroyed? If so, why that command?

The entity speaking in the Old Testament as "God" is revealed in the New Testament to be Jesus Christ, the Word, he who speaks.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

 

[ding]

No they are not

The covenant with ISRAEL was a NATIONAL covenant, not a spiritual one

That couldn't be farther from the truth. Maybe read Psalms?

 

[Foxfyre]

Was God different in Old Testament times compared to New Testament times? Origen, one of the Church fathers, lived 185-253. He addressed this question, which was being asked in his day: Why was God so harsh on the Amalekites?

Origen thought about this, deciding the Bible had to be read as a whole, particularly considering the last book, Revelation, where the Lamb (Jesus) opened the scroll (the Bible). This will show how early on the Catholic Church did not take every Biblical story literally, how allegory was often used.

What is your take: Did God literally command the deaths of all the Amalekites, their crops and animals destroyed? If so, why that command?

I am not a Bible literalist. I think of myself as a Bible realist. As such I don't believe God dictated every word of the Bible but I do believe the Holy Spirit inspired at least most of the words written down by the people of the Bible.

The many manuscripts and bits of manuscripts that make up the Bible contain parts of the Law, history, allegory/parable, wisdom sayings, doctrine, poetry, prophecy, metaphor, mystery/visions all from the experience, perspective, and language available to the people who wrote down the words.

There is no way that thousands of years of events and concepts all made it into the Bible but we get a pretty good sense of those times via the manuscripts that we have.

And even with the relatively limited scriptures we have, Bible Scholars have spent a lifetime piecing together the meaning of all of it and why it is most likely in the Bible.

The Old Testament speaks of a God of mercy and blessings but also a God of wrath and vengeance. The ancient Jews of that time were firm in their belief that everything that exists, that happens is via God's hand. Somehow they were able to avoid the dichotomy that God was righteous but, if everything that happened was via his will, then he also would cause people to sin and then punish them for what they did. A recurring theme of Creation, sin, punishment, vengeance, rescue/redemption is wound through most of the manuscripts. That God doesn't appear in New Testament manuscripts.

By New Testament times, the manuscripts focused on Immanuel, God with us, God became man and lived among us, and the Christ in the form of the Holy Spirit is always with us. Now we have a God that is not only a God of mercy and blessings but a God of Love, of Salvation, and promise of eternal life.

Same God. Different perspectives.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I am not a Bible literalist. I think of myself as a Bible realist. As such I don't believe God dictated every word of the Bible

2 Timothy 3:16 says, "All Scripture is inspired by God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness".

Explanation
This verse means that the Bible is God's word, and it is useful for teaching, correcting, and training people to do what is right. It is a guide for living and helps people understand why they are here and what God's plan is.

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

That couldn't be farther from the truth. Maybe read Psalms?

I'm surprised by your lack of understanding. Collective salvation is not a thing. You are not saved by race. Salvation is individual

 

[Foxfyre]

2 Timothy 3:16 says, "All Scripture is inspired by God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness".

Explanation
This verse means that the Bible is God's word, and it is useful for teaching, correcting, and training people to do what is right. It is a guide for living and helps people understand why they are here and what God's plan is.

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.

Inspired by the Holy Spirit is my interpretation of 'God breathed.' Dictated word for word by God, I just can't believe that. I do believe those who wrote the Biblical manuscripts were faithful and obedient to God and wrote it all down as faithfully and accurately as they could within their own limited understanding, experience, culture, language.

And I don't think Timothy or any of the New Testament writers understood they were writing what we would consider to be scripture when he wrote.

But do I believe the Bible to be about and of the living God? Yes I do. Do I believe those who read it are instructed and blessed? Yes I do. But I don't believe we have to do that blindly and without critical thought.

 

[ding]

I'm surprised by your lack of understanding. Collective salvation is not a thing. You are not saved by race. Salvation is individual

I never said anything about collective salvation. Maybe try again?

But do tell why you are not surprised by my lack of understanding, oh wise one?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I'm surprised by your lack of understanding. Collective salvation is not a thing. You are not saved by race. Salvation is individual

So another Catholic out of sync with his own teachings.

I get it. You believ in salvation by race. Really no different than the skinheads

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I never said anything about collective salvation. Maybe try again?

But do tell why you are not surprised by my lack of understanding, oh wise one?

 

[ding]

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Despite what GoogleAI says. God's relationships are with each person. Let me tell you about this "contract." Successful behaviors naturally lead to success just as failed behaviors naturally lead to failure. There's nothing magical about it. God isn't pushing buttons and pulling levers on a national level. God is softening hearts of individuals and guiding them in subtle ways.

 

[ding]

So another Catholic out of sync with his own teachings.

I get it. You believ in salvation by race. Really no different than the skinheads

I don't believe you are being guided by the Holy Spirit. There's no arrogance in the Holy Spirit.

 

[Meriweather]

Same God. Different perspectives.

Right, the focus is different. The Old Testament takes a look at how sin in entire communities attempts existence before God. The result: The same as an attempt for darkness to exist in the midst of light. Darkness and sin are both destroyed. Is light blamed and denounced for doing away with darkness? If not, why do some blame and denounce God and what is holy for eclipsing (doing away with) sin? Sin cannot exist in God's presence any more than darkness can exist in light.

When the Old Testament accounts focus on individuals and their stories, the same forgiveness and salvation present in the New Testament also shines forth in the Old Testament.

I'm not a fan of the call to prepare for End Times. Rather, I am an enthusiast for calling for holiness in our world, and on a much broader scale than Jonah called for it in Nineveh. Jonah was one person. We are apparently in the billions. So let our voices be heard!

 

[Foxfyre]

Despite what GoogleAI says. God's relationships are with each person. Let me tell you about this "contract." Successful behaviors naturally lead to success just as failed behaviors naturally lead to failure. There's nothing magical about it. God isn't pushing buttons and pulling levers on a national level. God is softening hearts of individuals and guiding them in subtle ways.

I try not to define God because I believe it impossible to do that.

But in my heart and experience I believe you are right about our relationship with God. Once we have that relationship, we are changed beings. And we can establish a sync that is guided by God's will or we can get mentally/spiritually lazy and/or willful and lean on our own understanding, wishes, desires, covetousness, anger whatever.

When we do the latter which is most likely more often than not, we are more likely to make more bad choices and mistakes, will be less successful or fail in our endeavors. Sometimes it can seem that way when we are in sync with the Holy Spirit, but in those cases I have to trust that God's ways are never wrong and there is some larger purpose in play.

The Old Testament people were those guided by the Law and their understanding of what God expected of them. Jesus fulfilled that Law with his own sacrifice and, while the Law provides some reasonable guidelines, the Holy Spirit guidance is what rules us.

 

[Foxfyre]

Right, the focus is different. The Old Testament takes a look at how sin in entire communities attempts existence before God. The result: The same as an attempt for darkness to exist in the midst of light. Darkness and sin are both destroyed. Is light blamed and denounced for doing away with darkness? If not, why do some blame and denounce God and what is holy for eclipsing (doing away with) sin? Sin cannot exist in God's presence any more than darkness can exist in light.

When the Old Testament accounts focus on individuals and their stories, the same forgiveness and salvation present in the New Testament also shines forth in the Old Testament.

I'm not a fan of the call to prepare for End Times. Rather, I am an enthusiast for calling for holiness in our world, and on a much broader scale than Jonah called for it in Nineveh. Jonah was one person. We are apparently in the billions. So let our voices be heard!

Yes, the motif of creation, sin, judgment, redemption/rescue reoccurs over and and over in O.T. narratives. And it was still a concept of faithfulness by keeping the Law rather than a personal relationship with the living God even though many narratives relate God speaking to individuals personally.

The various O.T. motifs are fascinating once they are recognized. Genesis is the story of how the world came to be, how sin entered the individual, why things are as they are. Through the story of Cain and Abel we see how sin comes to the family. In the story of Noah how sin comes to the community. In the story of the Tower of Babel, how sin permeated through the whole world. Some take all that literally. Others as allegory/metaphor. But it's there.

Recurring themes are also interesting. In several passages leading up to God giving the people what they clamored for and appointing Saul the first king of Israel, you see the same phrase almost verbatim: "In those days there was no king in Israel; everyone did what was right in his own eyes."

By the New Testament, recognition of free will, logic, reason, critical thinking was much more apparent than anything found in the O.T. And we have recognition of a God of love and salvation instead of the "Big Boss" concept of wrath and punishment. That was becoming much more the case with the Jews as well by the First Century. If it were not for the Hellenization of many Jews, i.e. the influence of Alexander the Great and other Greeks opening the mind to new and different concepts, Jesus likely would never have been accepted at all.