Zone1 God of the Old Testament and New Testament

[Carl in Michigan]

I don't believe you are being guided by the Holy Spirit. There's no arrogance in the Holy Spirit.

I'm 'arrogant" because I call you out on your biblical error. I haven't "judged" you as you're judging me. Glass houses

 

[Carl in Michigan]

That couldn't be farther from the truth. Maybe read Psalms?

Maybe read the covenant with Israel, then the covenant He made with His Church

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Right, the focus is different

No. The covenants are different.

The God of the Church will come to deliver Israel through the resurrected church

 

[ding]

I'm 'arrogant" because I call you out on your biblical error. I haven't "judged" you as you're judging me. Glass houses

I disagree. I believe you have a superficial understanding of scripture and are not being led by the Holy Spirit.

I'm not judging you the person. I am making observations of your behaviors. Not the same thing.

 

[ding]

Maybe read the covenant with Israel, then the covenant He made with His Church

Sounds like a superficial understanding to me. If you had more than a superficial understanding, you'd know God is the God of everyone.

 

[hadit]

God does not change. He is the same today that He was before Christ, and none of us have seen Him really get angry at sin, like many of those ancients did. That leads me to great awe what Jesus took on the cross, when He who knew no sin became sin. He has taken the punishment we all deserve, but I continue to believe that judgement is coming, and it won't be a fun time.

 

[Meriweather]

God does not change. He is the same today that He was before Christ, and none of us have seen Him really get angry at sin, like many of those ancients did. That leads me to great awe what Jesus took on the cross, when He who knew no sin became sin. He has taken the punishment we all deserve, but I continue to believe that judgement is coming, and it won't be a fun time.

Do we dare to say...
Our Father...

 

[hadit]

Do we dare to say...
Our Father...

Yes we dare to say that, because we CAN approach God's throne boldly, but ONLY because of what Jesus did. Without that, we wouldn't get anywhere close to Him without being utterly destroyed. That's what makes Christ's sacrifice so amazing.

 

[Meriweather]

Yes we dare to say that, because we CAN approach God's throne boldly, but ONLY because of what Jesus did. Without that, we wouldn't get anywhere close to Him without being utterly destroyed. That's what makes Christ's sacrifice so amazing.

The point was you seemed to be looking at an angry God and as someone coming to destroy. Why not ask for healing and renewing lives of holiness throughout the world?

 

[hadit]

The point was you seemed to be looking at an angry God and as someone coming to destroy. Why not ask for healing and renewing lives of holiness throughout the world?

We do, and pray for revival and God's mercy all the time. God bringing judgement, however, is prophesied and will not be avoided.

 

[luiza]

Was God different in Old Testament times compared to New Testament times?

Universe cannot change by Definition .
But people's portrayal of it can .

And it did .

From a cantankerous war mongering Evil dictator .
To a watered down version, who offered delayed final payment, conditional on doing as one was told before judgement day

Standard Mind Control for Cult followers -- willing or entrained .

 

[Meriweather]

We do, and pray for revival and God's mercy all the time. God bringing judgement, however, is prophesied and will not be avoided.

Which should be the focus, be given our greatest attention. Our Father, whose love pours out on all. Our greatest desire should be to love as God loves. An attitude of "God is coming to get you!" changes nothing. God gathers and heals. He wants what is best for each us. Yes, it is true what we think may be best for us is not what God knows is best for us which is why all are called to draw closer to God, to come to know Him. God is love. Let all come to know that so well it is never eclipsed by anger and judgment.

 

[hadit]

Which should be the focus, be given our greatest attention. Our Father, whose love pours out on all. Our greatest desire should be to love as God loves. An attitude of "God is coming to get you!" changes nothing. God gathers and heals. He wants what is best for each us. Yes, it is true what we think may be best for us is not what God knows is best for us which is why all are called to draw closer to God, to come to know Him. God is love. Let all come to know that so well it is never eclipsed by anger and judgment.

God is both complete love and mercy AND justice. He will deal with sin, and glossing over it does no one any favors. While the revival in the 70's was great, it tended to make Jesus look like a peace, love and flowers hippy. He's not.

Our message is both a call to a loving God AND a warning that sin will be punished.

 

[Meriweather]

Universe cannot change by Definition .
But people's portrayal of it can .

And it did .

From a cantankerous war mongering Evil dictator .
To a watered down version, who offered delayed final payment, conditional on doing as one was told before judgement day

Standard Mind Control for Cult followers -- willing or entrained .

Contemplations: Can we know in one second what is in an entire book? Can we look away from a picture and accurately describe each and every detail without looking back? Can we get a glimpse of a person and truly know him/her? The book, the picture, the person have not changed.

A true study requires taking each aspect of a book, a picture, a person one bit at a time. Only, then, looking back at all contributions might the whole be entirely understood.

Back in the day when I was a journalist, we were taught to actively look for the parts of a story that were missing. So much is missing in many of your posts it's like looking at a blank page with a few words like "the", "a", "if" while the implication is that it's a detailed dissertation of human history, psychology, and the future.

 

[Meriweather]

Our message is both a call to a loving God AND a warning that sin will be punished.

The ultimate message should not be "sin will be punished" when Christ's teaching is, "Sins are forgiven." A better reality may be that sin and evil cannot exist in the presence of God. Ultimately one has to choose between God/holiness and clinging to sin/evil. God, Our Father, made us good. When He comes, what are the gifts of goodness we will have ready for him (think of the parable of the Talents).

The Christian message should never be, "Just wait until your Father gets here!" because that should be a time of rejoicing, of welcoming, of embracing.

 

[hadit]

The ultimate message should not be "sin will be punished" when Christ's teaching is, "Sins are forgiven." A better reality may be that sin and evil cannot exist in the presence of God. Ultimately one has to choose between God/holiness and clinging to sin/evil. God, Our Father, made us good. When He comes, what are the gifts of goodness we will have ready for him (think of the parable of the Talents).

I can tell you that "gifts of goodness" are worthless without a relationship with Him. "Depart from me, I never knew you" will be said to those who did miracles in Jesus' name, but had no relationship with Him. I can also tell you that our own "righteousness" apart from Him is worth no more than filthy rags.

The Christian message should never be, "Just wait until your Father gets here!" because that should be a time of rejoicing, of welcoming, of embracing.

And it will be such for those in relationship with Him, not so much for those apart from Him. Presenting only the positive side of Christ doesn't lead anyone to an introspection of their life, doesn't reveal sin that needs to be dealt with and sends the message that sin is ultimately no big deal, instead of the destruction it really is. It doesn't convince anyone that they even need a savior.

Let's put it this way, how can you present a message that sins are forgiven if the person you're talking to has no idea what sin is and why they even need forgiveness in the first place? If you're floating down the Niagara River on a tube, me throwing you a rope and exhorting you that life is so much better here on the riverbank, but don't warn you that there is death and destruction ahead, what incentive do you have to grab the rope? You're having fun right where you are. The entire message needs to be preached, that sin leads to permanent separation from God, but He has made a way to be forgiven of that sin and to be in permanent relationship with God.

 

[LibertyKid]

Was God different in Old Testament times compared to New Testament times? Origen, one of the Church fathers, lived 185-253. He addressed this question, which was being asked in his day: Why was God so harsh on the Amalekites?

Origen thought about this, deciding the Bible had to be read as a whole, particularly considering the last book, Revelation, where the Lamb (Jesus) opened the scroll (the Bible). This will show how early on the Catholic Church did not take every Biblical story literally, how allegory was often used.

What is your take: Did God literally command the deaths of all the Amalekites, their crops and animals destroyed? If so, why that command?

I think the Israelites misappropriated characteristics and their military achievements to God. It was a very common practice to give 'a god' the glory and honor, even if that God really had nothing to do with those events and was against those events. Why do we know the israelites clearly didn't recognize the attributes of God, because they missed him when he was standing in front of them.

 

[Meriweather]

I can tell you that "gifts of goodness" are worthless without a relationship with Him. "Depart from me, I never knew you" will be said to those who did miracles in Jesus' name, but had no relationship with Him. I can also tell you that our own "righteousness" apart from Him is worth no more than filthy rags.

Can you honestly say, "I know Jesus." You are misquoting--or not understanding--the filthy rags sentiment.

And it will be such for those in relationship with Him, not so much for those apart from Him. Presenting only the positive side of Christ doesn't lead anyone to an introspection of their life, doesn't reveal sin that needs to be dealt with and sends the message that sin is ultimately no big deal, instead of the destruction it really is. It doesn't convince anyone that they even need a savior.

"Come meet the man who will judge you as a horrible human being and throw you into a fiery furnace." If anyone said those words to me, my word back would be a firm, no-nonsense, "Pass."

Compare that to:

"Come meet the man who forgives sins and lives a life righteous and well-worth living. Upon meeting him, you will meet someone who truly cares about you, who sees in you the best version of yourself, and all you can be. You'll love him."

Let's put it this way, how can you present a message that sins are forgiven if the person you're talking to has no idea what sin is and why they even need forgiveness in the first place? If you're floating down the Niagara River on a tube, me throwing you a rope and exhorting you that life is so much better here on the riverbank, but don't warn you that there is death and destruction ahead, what incentive do you have to grab the rope? You're having fun right where you are. The entire message needs to be preached, that sin leads to permanent separation from God, but He has made a way to be forgiven of that sin and to be in permanent relationship with God.

If all you see is death and destruction, I would not reach for any rope you were throwing. How about, "Grab onto the rope and I can take you to see a sight and a view you won't want to miss."

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I disagree. I believe you have a superficial understanding of scripture and are not being led by the Holy Spirit.

I'm not judging you the person. I am making observations of your behaviors. Not the same thing.

You cannot be corrected. You LAUGHED when I told someone else that God's covenant with Israel was NATIONAL and not a spiritual covenant.
When I corrected your "laugh" you called me arrogant. When I showed you what even Google says and is widely understood, you called me arrogant.

You cannot learn. You know everything. But I am "arrogant"

 

[Meriweather]

I think the Israelites misappropriated characteristics and their military achievements to God. It was a very common practice to give 'a god' the glory and honor, even if that God really had nothing to do with those events and was against those events. Why do we know the israelites clearly didn't recognize the attributes of God, because they missed him when he was standing in front of them.

A war story is not the only view the Israelites had of God. In fact, it is one of the smallest. Let's say someone describes Tom Cruise from head to toe. However, the only thing that catches your attention and that you mention to others is his smallest toenail. There is more to the life of Tom Cruise than a toenail. God's majesty is far larger/greater than the entire universe. The Bible is more than a single toenail. Take in the whole.

Instead, I try to imagine instead the lives of all the people on both sides of the battle, and God's presence with all, God's will for each the best end result for that individual, the for the world, and ultimately for the Kingdom of God. God is Father of us all, and His love is for all.