Dresden in 1945

[Grau]

Actually, the losers often write their version of history, if enough survive.
We are seeing examples of that "losers version of history" on this thread.

For once we agree.

Everything you've written is "a losers version of history".

Somehow I think that George Orwell's observations on the recording of history are far more credible than than the delusional ravings of brainwashed Zionophiles.

George Orwell once said:

"Who controls the past controls the future; who controls the present controls the past."

Forbes Quotes

www.forbes.com

 

[Stryder50]

Back to thread topic after assorted detours;

First thing most real historians understand is the need to ignore hindsight when seeking to understand the factors that apply when history was created. Often those making decisions have limited information to work from, so it helps to try and put yourself in their shoes, see what might have been their information and perspective.

Second, realize that the victory goals and winning conditions for one side rarely match those of the other. more often each have opposites.
War is not like a game of chess. Each side has different (not equal) resources and conditions they operate from.

Third; Losers also write history, their own versions of course. Coming back to the hindsight item above, it is often interesting post-war/event to compare winner to loser accounts.

Here's a anecdotal example:
During the Battle of Britain (Summer-Fall, 1940), on one given date, at days end, the British might claim they shot down 20 German aircraft for a loss of five of their own.
The German's might claim they shot down 15 British fighters for a loss of only 10 Luftwaffe bombers and fighters.
(These being the numbers each side made public, to the press, etc.)

The first thing to consider is that aircraft usually could be replaced quicker than aircrews. So the real effects are how many aircrews of the lost(shot down) aircraft return to their bases versus how many became POWs.

One place where "hindsight" comes into play is postwar when the real numbers can be learned.
First, the records of the aircraft mechanics give clue to how many aircraft made it back to base, but were no longer flyable, and were used for parts and/or scrap.
Second, those records also tell how many aircraft left the base, and how many returned.
Between these factors, one can gain a relatively accurate numbers and account of the real results of that day's operations.

Okay, this is another "detour" of sorts, but presented for context of the next post.

 

[Stryder50]

For once we agree.

Everything you've written is "a losers version of history".

Somehow I think that George Orwell's observations on the recording of history are far more credible than than the delusional ravings of brainwashed Zionophiles.

George Orwell once said:

"Who controls the past controls the future; who controls the present controls the past."

Forbes Quotes

www.forbes.com

Sort of similar to one of my signature lines.
I prefer to think what I present is more the middle ground of objective history rather than the biased, partisan, subjective view presented by most here.

 

[Stryder50]

I sometimes hesitate to use Wikipedia because often it's entries are biased and less than accurate~factual. Have to apply that "gain of salt" so to speak. On the other hand Wiki's content can lead to many of the sources used that will provide information not matching what was used by those who wrote the Wiki entry.

In this case which I'm about to present, on Dresden, from what I've read it appears to be one of the more objective and factual descriptions of what happened in early 1945 bombing raids. I'll try to present the minimum essential excerpts here for reference.

I'd also like to point out, AFAIK, the phenomena of Urban/city Firestorm resulting from aerial bombardment was relatively unknown and not well understood at the time.

Also, it was not the intention to create a "firestorm" via the bombardment.
Admittedly, aerial bombing of cities and facilities had been an evolving process during the years of the war, and clues on how to create such were gestating, but Dresden was a major item on that learning curve.

The above in consideration, the following also for consideration, excerpted from Wiki;
PART I
.....
The bombing of Dresden was a joint British and American aerial bombing attack on the city of Dresden, the capital of the German state of Saxony, during World War II. In four raids between 13 and 15 February 1945, 772 heavy bombers of the Royal Air Force (RAF) and 527 of the United States Army Air Forces (USAAF) dropped more than 3,900 tons[vague] of high-explosive bombs and incendiary devices on the city.[3] The bombing and the resulting firestorm destroyed more than 1,600 acres (6.5 km2) of the city centre.[4] Up to 25,000 people were killed.[1][2][a] Three more USAAF air raids followed, two occurring on 2 March aimed at the city's railway marshalling yard and one smaller raid on 17 April aimed at industrial areas.

Postwar discussions about whether the attacks were justified made the event a moral cause célèbre of the war.[6] Nazi Germany's desperate struggle to maintain resistance in the closing months of the war is widely understood today, but Allied intelligence assessments at the time painted a different picture. There was uncertainty over whether the Soviets could sustain their advance on Germany, and rumours of the establishment of a Nazi redoubt in Southern Germany were taken too seriously.[7]

The Allies saw the Dresden operation as the justified bombing of a strategic target, which United States Air Force reports, declassified decades later, noted as a major rail transport and communication centre, housing 110 factories and 50,000 workers supporting the German war effort.[8][9] Several researchers later asserted that not all communications infrastructure was targeted, and neither were the extensive industrial areas located outside the city centre.[10] Critics of the bombing argue that Dresden was a cultural landmark with little strategic significance, and that the attacks were indiscriminate area bombing and were not proportionate to military gains.[11][12][13] Some claim that the raid was a war crime.[14] Nazi propaganda exaggerated the death toll of the bombing and its status as mass murder, and many in the German far-right have referred to it as "Dresden's Holocaust of bombs".[15][16]

In the decades since the war, large variations in the claimed death toll have led to controversy, though the numbers themselves are no longer a major point of contention among historians.[17] City authorities at the time estimated that there were as many as 25,000 victims, a figure that subsequent investigations supported, including a 2010 study commissioned by the city council.[2] ...
....
Early in 1945, the German offensive known as the Battle of the Bulge had been exhausted, as was the Luftwaffe's failed New Year's Day attack. The Red Army had launched its Silesian Offensives into pre-war German territory. The German army was retreating on all fronts, but still resisting. On 8 February 1945, the Red Army crossed the Oder River, with positions just 70 km (43 mi) from Berlin.[23] A special British Joint Intelligence Subcommittee report, German Strategy and Capacity to Resist, prepared for Winston Churchill's eyes only, predicted that Germany might collapse as early as mid-April if the Soviets overran its eastern defences. Alternatively, the report warned that the Germans might hold out until November if they could prevent the Soviets from taking Silesia. Despite the post-war assessment, there were serious doubts in Allied intelligence as to how well the war was going for them, with fears of a "Nazi redoubt" being established, or of the Russian advance faltering.[7] Hence, any assistance to the Soviets on the Eastern Front could shorten the war.[24]
....

Bombing of Dresden - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Stryder50]

PART II
....
... Air Chief Marshal Sir Arthur Harris, AOC-in-C Bomber Command, nicknamed "Bomber Harris", was known as an ardent supporter of area bombing;[29] when asked for his view, he proposed a simultaneous attack on Chemnitz, Leipzig and Dresden.[26] That evening Churchill asked the Secretary of State for Air, Sir Archibald Sinclair, what plans had been drawn up to carry out these proposals. Marshal of the Royal Air Force Sir Charles Portal, the Chief of the Air Staff, answered: "We should use available effort in one big attack on Berlin and attacks on Dresden, Leipzig, and Chemnitz, or any other cities where a severe blitz will not only cause confusion in the evacuation from the East, but will also hamper the movement of troops from the West."[26] ...
....
... Air Marshal Sir Douglas Evill on 1 February, in which Evill states interfering with mass civilian movements was a key factor in the decision to bomb the city centre. Attacking main railway junctions, telephone systems, city administration and utilities would result in "chaos". Britain had ostensibly learned this after the Coventry Blitz, when loss of this crucial infrastructure had supposedly longer-lasting effects than attacks on war plants. ...
....

Military and industrial profile​

European front lines during Dresden raids.
German controlled territory
Allied territory
Recent Allied advances
Neutral

According to the RAF at the time, Dresden was Germany's seventh-largest city and the largest remaining unbombed, built-up area.[39] Taylor writes that an official 1942 guide to the city described it as "one of the foremost industrial locations of the Reich" and in 1944 the German Army High Command's Weapons Office listed 127 medium-to-large factories and workshops that were supplying the army with materiel.[40] Nonetheless, according to some historians, the contribution of Dresden to the German war effort may not have been as significant as the planners thought.[41]

The US Air Force Historical Division wrote a report, which remained classified until December 1978,[42] in response to international concern about the bombing. It said that there were 110 factories and 50,000 workers in the city supporting the German war effort at the time of the raid.[43] According to the report, there were aircraft components factories; a poison gas factory (Chemische Fabrik Goye and Company); an anti-aircraft and field gun factory (Lehman); an optical goods factory (Zeiss Ikon AG); and factories producing electrical and X-ray apparatus (Koch & Sterzel [de] AG); gears and differentials (Saxoniswerke); and electric gauges (Gebrüder Bassler). The report also mentioned barracks, hutted camps, and a munitions storage depot.[44]

The USAF report also states that two of Dresden's traffic routes were of military importance: north-south from Germany to Czechoslovakia, and east–west along the central European uplands.[45] The city was at the junction of the Berlin-Prague-Vienna railway line, as well as the Munich-Breslau, and Hamburg-Leipzig lines.[45] Colonel Harold E. Cook, a US POW held in the Friedrichstadt marshaling yard the night before the attacks, later said that "I saw with my own eyes that Dresden was an armed camp: thousands of German troops, tanks and artillery and miles of freight cars loaded with supplies supporting and transporting German logistics towards the east to meet the Russians".[46]
...
... In his biography of Attlee and Churchill, Leo McKinstry wrote: "When Churchill arrived at Yalta on 4 February 1945, the first question that Stalin put to him was: 'Why haven't you bombed Dresden?' His enquiry reflected the importance that the Soviet Union attached to an attack on the city, following intelligence reports that Germany was moving large numbers of troops towards the Breslau Front. Churchill assured Stalin that an Allied attack was imminent."[49]
....

Bombing of Dresden - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Stryder50]

PART III
....
On 13 February 1945, bad weather over Europe prevented any USAAF operations, and it was left to RAF Bomber Command to carry out the first raid. It had been decided that the raid would be a double strike, in which a second wave of bombers would attack three hours after the first, just as the rescue teams were trying to put out the fires.[51] As was standard practice, other raids were carried out that night to confuse German air defences. Three hundred and sixty heavy bombers (Lancasters and Halifaxes) bombed a synthetic oil plant in Böhlen, 60 mi (97 km) from Dresden, while 71 de Havilland Mosquito medium bombers attacked Magdeburg with small numbers of Mosquitos carrying out nuisance raids on Bonn, Misburg near Hanover and Nuremberg.[52]
...
On the morning of 14 February 431 United States Army Air Force bombers of the Eighth Air Force's 1st Bombardment Division were scheduled to bomb Dresden near midday, and the 457 aircraft of 3rd Bombardment Division were to follow to bomb Chemnitz, while the 375 bombers of the 2nd Bombardment Division would bomb a synthetic oil plant in Magdeburg. Another 84 bombers would attack Wesel.[67] The bomber groups were protected by 784 North American P-51 Mustangs of the Eighth Air Force's VIII Fighter Command, 316 of which covered the Dresden attack – a total of almost 2,100 Eighth Army Air Force aircraft over Saxony during 14 February.[68] The smoke plume over Dresden by now reached 15,000 ft (4,600 m) and was plainly visible to the approaching raid.[65]

USAAF Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress bombers over Europe
Primary sources disagree as to whether the aiming point was the marshalling yards near the centre of the city or the centre of the built-up urban area. The report by the 1st Bombardment Division's commander to his commander states that the targeting sequence was the centre of the built-up area in Dresden if the weather was clear. If clouds obscured Dresden but Chemnitz was clear, Chemnitz was the target. If both were obscured, they would bomb the centre of Dresden using H2X radar.[69] The mix of bombs for the Dresden raid was about 40 per cent incendiaries—much closer to the RAF city-busting mix than the USAAF usually used in precision bombardment.[70] Taylor compares this 40 per cent mix with the raid on Berlin on 3 February, where the ratio was 10 per cent incendiaries. This was a common mix when the USAAF anticipated cloudy conditions over the target.[71]
...

German defensive action​

Dresden's air defences had been depleted as anti-aircraft guns were requistioned for use against the Red Army in the east, and the city lost its last massive flak battery in January 1945. The Luftwaffe was largely ineffective, with planes that were unsafe to fly due to lack of parts and maintenance and a critical shortage of aviation fuel; the German radar system was also degraded, lowering the warning time to prepare for air attacks. The RAF also had an advantage over the Germans in the field of electronic radar countermeasures.[82]

Of 796 British bombers that participated in the raid, six were lost, three of those hit by bombs dropped by aircraft flying over them. On the following day, only a single US bomber was shot down, as the large escort force was able to prevent Luftwaffe day fighters from disrupting the attack.[83] ...
...
An RAF assessment showed that 23 per cent of the industrial buildings and 56 per cent of the non-industrial buildings, not counting residential buildings, had been seriously damaged. Around 78,000 dwellings had been completely destroyed; 27,700 were uninhabitable, and 64,500 damaged but readily repairable.[8]

During his post-war interrogation, Albert Speer, Reich Minister of Armaments and War Production, said that Dresden's industrial recovery from the bombings was rapid.[93]
...
The unease was made worse by an Associated Press story that the Allies had resorted to terror bombing. At a press briefing held by the Supreme Headquarters Allied Expeditionary Force two days after the raids, British Air Commodore Colin McKay Grierson told journalists:

First of all they (Dresden and similar towns) are the centres to which evacuees are being moved. They are centres of communications through which traffic is moving across to the Russian Front, and from the Western Front to the East, and they are sufficiently close to the Russian Front for the Russians to continue the successful prosecution of their battle. I think these three reasons probably cover the bombing.[113]

One of the journalists asked whether the principal aim of bombing Dresden would be to cause confusion among the refugees or to blast communications carrying military supplies. Grierson answered that the primary aim was to attack communications to prevent the Germans from moving military supplies, and to stop movement in all directions if possible. He then added in an offhand remark that the raid also helped destroy "what is left of German morale". Howard Cowan, an Associated Press war correspondent, subsequently filed a story claiming that the Allies had resorted to terror bombing. There were follow-up newspaper editorials on the issue and a longtime opponent of strategic bombing, Richard Stokes MP, asked questions in the House of Commons on 6 March.[114][115]
...

Falsification of evidence​

Holocaust deniers and pro-Nazi polemicists—most notably by British writer David Irving—use the bombing in an attempt to establish a moral equivalence between the war crimes committed by the Nazi government and the killing of German civilians by Allied bombing raids.[141] As such, grossly inflated[142] casualty figures have been promulgated over the years, many based on a figure of over 200,000 deaths quoted in a forged version of the casualty report, Tagesbefehl No. 47, that originated with Hitler's Reich Minister of Propaganda Joseph Goebbels.[143][144][145] Irving himself grossly exaggerated the death toll in his book The Destruction of Dresden, arguing that the allied bombing killed 135,000 inhabitants; these figures were initially widely accepted, but are now considered to be wildly inflated.[146]
...
A report by the U.S. Air Force Historical Division (USAFHD) analysed the circumstances of the raid and concluded that it was militarily necessary and justified, based on the following points:[8]

1. The raid had legitimate military ends, brought about by exigent military circumstances.
2. Military units and anti-aircraft defences were sufficiently close that it was not valid to consider the city "undefended".
3. The raid did not use extraordinary means but was comparable to other raids used against comparable targets.
4. The raid was carried out through the normal chain of command, pursuant to directives and agreements then in force.
5. The raid achieved the military objective, without excessive loss of civilian life.

The first point regarding the legitimacy of the raid depends on two claims: first, that the railyards subjected to American precision bombing were an important logistical target, and that the city was also an important industrial centre.[8] Even after the main firebombing, there were two further raids on the Dresden railway yards by the USAAF. The first was on 2 March 1945, by 406 B-17s, which dropped 940 tons of high-explosive bombs and 141 tons of incendiaries. The second was on 17 April, when 580 B-17s dropped 1,554 tons of high-explosive bombs and 165 tons of incendiaries.[8]

As far as Dresden being a militarily significant industrial centre, an official 1942 guide described the German city as "... one of the foremost industrial locations of the Reich," and in 1944, the German Army High Command's Weapons Office listed 127 medium-to-large factories and workshops that supplied materiel to the military.[40] Dresden was the seventh largest German city, and by far the largest un-bombed built-up area left, and thus was contributing to the defence of Germany itself.[149]
.....
The Wiki article is VERY long, and I've tried to present only the more essential details and excerpts here. Any who want further context and perspective are encouraged to read the full link,

Bombing of Dresden - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Mushroom]

The first thing to consider is that aircraft usually could be replaced quicker than aircrews. So the real effects are how many aircrews of the lost(shot down) aircraft return to their bases versus how many became POWs.

In the BoB this was very critical. As a lot of pilots that were "shot down" were able to parachute to safety in Britain, so were quickly able to just get another aircraft and return to the fight. Any German pilots shot down, they were not so lucky and spent the rest of the war in POW camps.

And this could really be seen in Japan. At the end of the war they had almost 13,000 aircraft, but far less qualified pilots to operate them. One of the reasons why towards the end of the war they started using kamikaze pilots so often. Just give them enough instruction to take off and fly level, then "follow the leader" behind a qualified pilot before making their suicide attack and their guide returning to base for the next such mission.

 

[Mushroom]

Alternatively, the report warned that the Germans might hold out until November if they could prevent the Soviets from taking Silesia. Despite the post-war assessment, there were serious doubts in Allied intelligence as to how well the war was going for them, with fears of a "Nazi redoubt" being established, or of the Russian advance faltering. Hence, any assistance to the Soviets on the Eastern Front could shorten the war.

Plus we now know that there were plans in place even if they lost the war.

"Operation Werwolf" was intended to create a resistance force that would operate in Germany and occupied territories after the war. Primarily to be enacted by SS units, but all organizations in the German military were supposed to have taken part. They even had a radio station broadcasting that was intended to give orders to the various groups.



However, ultimately even though there were elaborate plans in place as well as a chain of command, the almost complete collapse of the NSDAP government and even the weariness of those intended to stage these attacks almost nothing ever happened. I want to say their successful attacks were limited mostly to some sabotage of tunnels and bridges and that is about it. The assassination squads and large forces that would emerge to try and torment the occupation forces simply never materialized.

It was a serious threat, but never came to be.



In essence, a much more highly trained, equipped, and organized than the French Resistance.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

For once we agree.

Everything you've written is "a losers version of history".

Somehow I think that George Orwell's observations on the recording of history are far more credible than than the delusional ravings of brainwashed Zionophiles.

George Orwell once said:

"Who controls the past controls the future; who controls the present controls the past."

Forbes Quotes

www.forbes.com

dude the troll is lying as always,the winners are the ones who get to rewrite history.just look at the Warren commission,the cia killed kennedy and they got to rewrite history with Lyndon Johnson putting cla director Allen Dulles the man kennedy fired after he lied to him about the bay of pigs invasion tellimg him no military involvement would be neeeded knowing full well it would be needed to succeeed then trying to trick him into using the military to invade when the plan thst was set up to fail did just that.

Putting someone on the Warren commission from the evil demonic cia to be one of the main investigators for the Warren commission,talk about the fox guarding the henhouse,Dulles was thrilled doing cartwheels when traiter lbj appointed him to be on that commission.that was why ford git elected fir his participation in the coverup.

Babble as always that the losers rewrite history,the winnners do.Langley shill mushroom endorces the mahogany bullet theory of the Warren commission so no wonder he likes trollboy strykers posts.

After the CIA lied to kennedy about the bay of pigs invasion and tried to trick him into sendind in military support,he vowed to splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it into the four winds.

Well the CIA got the last laugh and got to rewrite history,so much for a trollboys fantasy here the losers get to rewrite history instead of the winners.

Nobody believes the fairy tales after all of the Warren commissions fantasy of a magic bullet anymore.

Just ONE example right there how the evil WINNERS get to rewrite history.

 

[Grau]

Because this would be wrong, Holocaust denier. To deny the Holocaust is by the way a crime in Germany. And in France it is forbidden to deny any genocide. Reason for: To deny a genocide in front of a victim of a genocide (I guess up to the fourth generation) is able to cause a brain damage which is biologically comparable to a hit on the head with a truncheon. Serious bodily injury.

First, where I have ever denied that the Holocaust happened?

Unless you can validate that lie it would be entirely accurate for readers to dismiss you as just another slanderous and brainwashed dishonest individual whose only argument is slander.

I lived, worked and studied in Germany over fifty years ago where I knew dozens of Holocaust survivors and WW 2 Veterans from both sides of the war.

Additionally, I've read salient documents, speeches and reports in the original German and am just not dumb enough to blindly believe each and every impossible, unsupportable, and profitable lie marketed by the fraudulent Holocaust Industry (1), (2) and its gullible hucksters.

Next, I find it amusing that in your mind censorship = Truth.

The fact that refuting lies about only the Holocaust is a "Thought Crime" only exposes the enormous degree to which the standard Holocaust narrative has been grossly distorted , crassly exploited and weaponized to inflict a real genocide against Palestine's native residents.

The truth doesn't need censorship to protect it but a lie cannot survive without it.

Technically, the Holocaust was not a genocide against Europe's unfortunate Jews since 150,000 Jews served in Hitler's military with 25 of them rising to the rank of General.
Additionally, there were several Jews who were high ranking National Socialist (aka Nazi) party members. (3)

Finally, you wrote:

To deny a genocide in front of a victim of a genocide (I guess up to the fourth generation) is able to cause a brain damage which is biologically comparable to a hit on the head with a truncheon. Serious bodily injury.

You wrote: "(I guess up to the fourth generation)"

What unsupportable nonsense.

Holocaust survivor, Moshe Peer, claims to have survived six gassings in non existent homicidal gas chambers so I doubt that he would suffer "Serious bodily injury" from a healthy dose of reality.

I have studied Psychology and worked in the field long enough to recognize self-serving psycho-babble when I see transparent attempts to monopolize the profitable pity market and criminalize honest free speech.

I hope that you'll consider the most obvious reasons that the multi billion dollar Holocaust Industry is so desperate to repress honest examination and open discussion of their profitable "product".



(1). "17 CHARGED IN $42 MILLION HOLOCAUST FRAUD CASE"
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40093058/...ed-million-holocaust-fraud-case/#.XU62pSMwi_U

EXCERPT "Federal prosecutors said Tuesday they have broken up a long-running scam in which people falsely claimed to be victims of the Nazi persecution so they could get money out of a fund that pays Holocaust reparations."CONTINUED


(2)"HOLOCAUST CLAIMS CONFERENCE FRAUD LIKELY ‘MUCH HIGHER’ THAN $57 MILLION"

Holocaust Claims Conference fraud likely ‘much higher’ than $57 million

For over a decade, a criminal ring within the organization embezzled tens of millions of dollars through false restitution claims.

www.jpost.com

EXCERPT "For over a decade, a criminal ring within the organization embezzled tens of millions of dollars through false restitution claims.”CONTINUED


(3). “List of Nazis of non-Germanic descent"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nazis_of_non-Germanic_descent

EXCERPT “Notably, there were several high-ranking Nazis of full and partial Jewish descent. “ CONTINUED

 

[zaangalewa]

irosie91 Stryder50 Picaro

You overestimate the USA drastically.

 

[Grau]

dude the troll is lying as always,the winners are the ones who get to rewrite history.just look at the Warren commission,the cia killed kennedy and they got to rewrite history with Lyndon Johnson putting cla director Allen Dulles the man kennedy fired after he lied to him about the bay of pigs invasion tellimg him no military involvement would be neeeded knowing full well it would be needed to succeeed then trying to trick him into using the military to invade when the plan thst was set up to fail did just that.

Putting someone on the Warren commission from the evil demonic cia to be one of the main investigators for the Warren commission,talk about the fox guarding the henhouse,Dulles was thrilled doing cartwheels when traiter lbj appointed him to be on that commission.that was why ford git elected fir his participation in the coverup.

Babble as always that the losers rewrite history,the winnners do.Langley shill mushroom endorces the mahogany bullet theory of the Warren commission so no wonder he likes trollboy strykers posts.

After the CIA lied to kennedy about the bay of pigs invasion and tried to trick him into sendind in military support,he vowed to splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it into the four winds.

Well the CIA got the last laugh and got to rewrite history,so much for a trollboys fantasy here the losers get to rewrite history instead of the winners.

Nobody believes the fairy tales after all of the Warren commissions fantasy of a magic bullet anymore.

Just ONE example right there how the evil WINNERS get to rewrite history.

Many thanks,

I'll keep looking for examples of "Losers writing the history"..... wish me luck.

Meanwhile, this is another example of the degree to which the Holocaust Industry is desperate to repress anything that threatens their profitable reparations racket:


"BOOK ON JEWISH-RUN REVENGE' CAMPS IS PULLED"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1995/02/15/book-on-jewish-run-revenge-camps-is-pulled/17f4868b-403f-4083-897d-1edeace16e27/

EXCERPT "A German publisher has abruptly canceled a book that investigates the Jewish role in running internment camps in Poland after World War II, saying the work otherwise could be "cause for some misunderstanding." The 6,000 copies printed will be destroyed.

For six months after the war, Morel ran an internment camp for German civilians in the Polish community of Swietochlowice.

Former inmates told Sack that Morel brutalized, tortured and killed some of the German civilians housed at the camp. Two years ago, Morel fled to Israel; Polish authorities are reportedly considering filing murder charges against him." CONTINUED


Next, because the Allies could find no homicidal gas chambers, they forced German POWs to build a fake one.

When the world was invited to inspect this homicidal gas chamber, it was quietly dismissed as yet another Allied propaganda ploy.


"NKVD Forced German POWs to Build Fake Gas Chambers AFTER the War !"

NKVD Forced German POWs to Build Fake Gas Chambers AFTER the War !

I was held by the Russians in Sachsen-hausen, and made to build a gas chamber there; this is what I saw

vk.com

EXCERPT "As a young officer, Gerhart Schirmer was captured in 1945 by the Russians and held in Sachsenhausen which the Russians continued to use as a prison.

Although the War and Nazism were over, Schirmer and a few fellow-prisoners were forced to construct a gas chamber and execution room, to show the world what the Nazis had done. He described his experiences in a booklet entitled 'Sachsenhausen - Workuta, Zehn Jahre in den Fängen der Sowjets' (Grabert Verlag, Tübingen, 1992).

When 'certain groups' drew the attention of the authorities to the booklet's contents, it was seized and banned in Germany. This is described by Schirmer below (my translation). I understand Schirmer was given the choice of a fine or prison and he chose the fine because, being over ninety, he did not relish spending his last few years behind bars, especially as he had already spent eleven years of his life in prison." CONTINUED

Thanks again and keep up the good work,

 

[Stryder50]

dude the troll is lying as always,the winners are the ones who get to rewrite history.just look at the Warren commission,the cia killed kennedy and they got to rewrite history with Lyndon Johnson putting cla director Allen Dulles the man kennedy fired after he lied to him about the bay of pigs invasion tellimg him no military involvement would be neeeded knowing full well it would be needed to succeeed then trying to trick him into using the military to invade when the plan thst was set up to fail did just that.

Putting someone on the Warren commission from the evil demonic cia to be one of the main investigators for the Warren commission,talk about the fox guarding the henhouse,Dulles was thrilled doing cartwheels when traiter lbj appointed him to be on that commission.that was why ford git elected fir his participation in the coverup.

Babble as always that the losers rewrite history,the winnners do.Langley shill mushroom endorces the mahogany bullet theory of the Warren commission so no wonder he likes trollboy strykers posts.

After the CIA lied to kennedy about the bay of pigs invasion and tried to trick him into sendind in military support,he vowed to splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it into the four winds.

Well the CIA got the last laugh and got to rewrite history,so much for a trollboys fantasy here the losers get to rewrite history instead of the winners.

Nobody believes the fairy tales after all of the Warren commissions fantasy of a magic bullet anymore.

Just ONE example right there how the evil WINNERS get to rewrite history.

Would seem English comprehension is another subject area you flunked when in school. (As we as spelling and grammar from reading your post.)
To refresh, this is what I said;
" Third; Losers also write history, their own versions of course. Coming back to the hindsight item above, it is often interesting post-war/event to compare winner to loser accounts." FWIW, often both the winner and the loser versions are not the full nor completely accurate version.

As for "trollboy", I present about ten times (at least) as many facts and sources in my posts than you do.

If there's any "trollboy" posting on this thread it would be your Marxist/Leftist propaganda and distorted perspective !

 

[Stryder50]

irosie91 Stryder50 Picaro

You overestimate the USA drastically.

In what way do/did I overestimate the USA - drastically ???

 

[zaangalewa]

First, where I have ever denied that the Holocaust happened?

At least you made fun of the Holocaust by using the number ‘6 trillion’.

Unless you can validate that lie

If you are no Holocaust denier then I was wrong.

it would be entirely accurate for readers to dismiss you as just another slanderous and brainwashed dishonest individual whose only argument is slander.

I lived, worked and studied in Germany over fifty years ago where I knew dozens of Holocaust survivors and WW 2 Veterans from both sides of the war.

Which both sides?

Additionally, I've read salient documents, speeches and reports in the original German and am just not dumb enough to blindly believe each and every impossible, unsupportable, and profitable lie marketed by the fraudulent Holocaust Industry (1), (2) and its gullible hucksters.

Next, I find it amusing that in your mind censorship = Truth.

The fact that refuting lies about only the Holocaust is a "Thought Crime" only exposes the enormous degree to which the standard Holocaust narrative has been grossly distorted , crassly exploited and weaponized to inflict a real genocide against Palestine's native residents.

The truth doesn't need censorship to protect it but a lie cannot survive without it.

Technically, the Holocaust was not a genocide against Europe's unfortunate Jews since 150,000 Jews served in Hitler's military with 25 of them rising to the rank of General.

Totally clear now. You are a Holocaust denier.

Additionally, there were several Jews who were high ranking National Socialist (aka Nazi) party members. (3)

Finally, you wrote:


You wrote: "(I guess up to the fourth generation)"

What unsupportable nonsense.

Holocaust survivor, Moshe Peer, claims to have survived six gassings in non existent homicidal gas chambers so I doubt that he would suffer "Serious bodily injury" from a healthy dose of reality.

I have studied Psychology ...

No.

 

[zaangalewa]

In what way do/did I overestimate the USA - drastically ???

You left the NATO and like to lead the NATO the same time. This will no one accept.

 

[zaangalewa]

When a military is not on offense, than it is on defense.

Or waltzing.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Two farts in a row from disinfo agent trollboy. He thinks I actually read his blabber anymore.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

First, where I have ever denied that the Holocaust happened?

Unless you can validate that lie it would be entirely accurate for readers to dismiss you as just another slanderous and brainwashed dishonest individual whose only argument is slander.

I lived, worked and studied in Germany over fifty years ago where I knew dozens of Holocaust survivors and WW 2 Veterans from both sides of the war.

Additionally, I've read salient documents, speeches and reports in the original German and am just not dumb enough to blindly believe each and every impossible, unsupportable, and profitable lie marketed by the fraudulent Holocaust Industry (1), (2) and its gullible hucksters.

Next, I find it amusing that in your mind censorship = Truth.

The fact that refuting lies about only the Holocaust is a "Thought Crime" only exposes the enormous degree to which the standard Holocaust narrative has been grossly distorted , crassly exploited and weaponized to inflict a real genocide against Palestine's native residents.

The truth doesn't need censorship to protect it but a lie cannot survive without it.

Technically, the Holocaust was not a genocide against Europe's unfortunate Jews since 150,000 Jews served in Hitler's military with 25 of them rising to the rank of General.
Additionally, there were several Jews who were high ranking National Socialist (aka Nazi) party members. (3)

Finally, you wrote:


You wrote: "(I guess up to the fourth generation)"

What unsupportable nonsense.

Holocaust survivor, Moshe Peer, claims to have survived six gassings in non existent homicidal gas chambers so I doubt that he would suffer "Serious bodily injury" from a healthy dose of reality.

I have studied Psychology and worked in the field long enough to recognize self-serving psycho-babble when I see transparent attempts to monopolize the profitable pity market and criminalize honest free speech.

I hope that you'll consider the most obvious reasons that the multi billion dollar Holocaust Industry is so desperate to repress honest examination and open discussion of their profitable "product".



(1). "17 CHARGED IN $42 MILLION HOLOCAUST FRAUD CASE"
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40093058/...ed-million-holocaust-fraud-case/#.XU62pSMwi_U

EXCERPT "Federal prosecutors said Tuesday they have broken up a long-running scam in which people falsely claimed to be victims of the Nazi persecution so they could get money out of a fund that pays Holocaust reparations."CONTINUED


(2)"HOLOCAUST CLAIMS CONFERENCE FRAUD LIKELY ‘MUCH HIGHER’ THAN $57 MILLION"

Holocaust Claims Conference fraud likely ‘much higher’ than $57 million

For over a decade, a criminal ring within the organization embezzled tens of millions of dollars through false restitution claims.

www.jpost.com

EXCERPT "For over a decade, a criminal ring within the organization embezzled tens of millions of dollars through false restitution claims.”CONTINUED


(3). “List of Nazis of non-Germanic descent"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nazis_of_non-Germanic_descent

EXCERPT “Notably, there were several high-ranking Nazis of full and partial Jewish descent. “ CONTINUED

Its sick how Hitler always got demonized with the inflated six million myth but even with the myth that’s nowhere near the documented number of 20 million Russian citizens stalin murdered and yet,Hitler is the one that always gets demonized by our corrupt school system and thought of as the most evil man ever to walk the planet yet stalin always gets a free pass and is an afterthought to Hitler.

The reason why Hollywood always demonizes Hitler but stalin always gets a free pass is because fellow mass murderers fdr and Eisenhower were buddy’s with him referring to him as uncle Joe.you go into the friendship they had with a mass murderer then they get exposed for how they were as demonic and as much mass murderers as stalin was,can’t have that.

Can’t have two of Americas most popular presidents on coins demonized,can’t have that.Americas most popular presidents on our money bills are actually the most corrupt,the ones thst served the people like Howard Taft and John Tyler never get the recoginstion they deserve by Hollywood.Hollywood always glamorizes the most famous presidents cause they are the most corrupt.Washington the exception.

 

[Stryder50]

For once we agree.

Everything you've written is "a losers version of history".

Somehow I think that George Orwell's observations on the recording of history are far more credible than than the delusional ravings of brainwashed Zionophiles.

George Orwell once said:

"Who controls the past controls the future; who controls the present controls the past."

Forbes Quotes

www.forbes.com

G. Orwell would have been accurate to point that;
"Those who decide what history can be told, or not told ... control knowledge of the past, direction of the future, who controls the present, controls knowledge of the past. "