How did it all begin, this animosity towards Russia and communism in general?

[Mushroom]

Finland didn't "agree" to be friendly; it had a pistol to its head

Which is exactly what "Finlandization" is. Either almost become a client state and do what the Soviet Union wants, or get invaded.

Not unlike what Ukraine had been facing the last decade or so.

 

[Mushroom]

Russia invaded Hungary twice to stamp out the anti-communist movements.

To be more accurate, that was the Soviet Union.

On 23 June 1956 there was a revolt in Hungary, and the new government stated that they intended to leave the Warsaw Pact, and was entering negotiations with the Soviet Union to have their forces withdraw from the country. And what occurred then four months of the Soviets pretending that the Revolution had not happened, and the new leadership establishing a new government.

On 28 October the government announced that Hungary was withdrawing from the Warsaw Pact, disbanded the AVH secret police, and it would be neutral in the Cold War between NATO and the Warsaw Pact. And wanted the Soviet forces in the nation to withdraw from their nation.

And on 1 November the Soviet Union invaded Hungary. Total strength was over 31,000 soldiers with over 1,000 tanks, and within two weeks they had crushed Hungary and forced it back into being a client state once again. And the majority of the leaders of the revolution were subsequently executed.

And one of the leaders that was not executed was Sandor Kopacsi. The Chief of Police in Budapest, he ordered his officers to not fire on the protestors so long as they remained peaceful and non-violent. He reached agreements with other police departments and military officers that so long as there was no bloodshed they would not intervene. And after the revolt he was selected as Deputy Commander of the National Guard.

Arrested after the Soviets retook control, he was sentenced to life in prison. But released in the general amnesty in 1963 and he moved to Canada until 1990 where he returned after the Communist Government fell once again.

 

[AZrailwhale]

To be more accurate, that was the Soviet Union.

On 23 June 1956 there was a revolt in Hungary, and the new government stated that they intended to leave the Warsaw Pact, and was entering negotiations with the Soviet Union to have their forces withdraw from the country. And what occurred then four months of the Soviets pretending that the Revolution had not happened, and the new leadership establishing a new government.

On 28 October the government announced that Hungary was withdrawing from the Warsaw Pact, disbanded the AVH secret police, and it would be neutral in the Cold War between NATO and the Warsaw Pact. And wanted the Soviet forces in the nation to withdraw from their nation.

And on 1 November the Soviet Union invaded Hungary. Total strength was over 31,000 soldiers with over 1,000 tanks, and within two weeks they had crushed Hungary and forced it back into being a client state once again. And the majority of the leaders of the revolution were subsequently executed.

And one of the leaders that was not executed was Sandor Kopacsi. The Chief of Police in Budapest, he ordered his officers to not fire on the protestors so long as they remained peaceful and non-violent. He reached agreements with other police departments and military officers that so long as there was no bloodshed they would not intervene. And after the revolt he was selected as Deputy Commander of the National Guard.

Arrested after the Soviets retook control, he was sentenced to life in prison. But released in the general amnesty in 1963 and he moved to Canada until 1990 where he returned after the Communist Government fell once again.

There is no real difference between Russia and the Soviet Union. Both were dominated by Russians and everyone else were second class citizens,

 

[the watcher]

We also don’t interfere anywhere as often as in the past.

You don't think that overthrowing Iraq's government had any unpleasant consequences for us? Or the constant meddling in Europe and Africa had any blowback? Who could have predicted that setting up Zelensky would have started some shit? Chickens have a way of getting back to the roost. You need help. Mapped: The 7 Governments the U.S. Has Overthrown

 

[Deadstick]

As usual according to you, Russia can do no wrong and no other nation has the right to determine its own course and policies.

I didn't say they can do no wrong, but the situation just after WW2 was unique and different, the Soviet Union as it was at the time after just coming through a total war that cost them millions of lives were not going to give up their security again on their borders, as we can see today NATO threatening that security, and i repeat don't expect any sympathy from me about Hungarian Fascists being put in their place, as for telling other Countries should be allowed to determine their own course try telling the US they lecture and threaten anyone who doesn't follow their orders, and Ukraine and NATOs were warned many times Ukraine would not be allowed to join NATO by Russia because that would be a direct threat to Russia, the idiots didn't listen but they will listen now.

 

[Deadstick]

There is no real difference between Russia and the Soviet Union. Both were dominated by Russians and everyone else were second class citizens,

Bullshit ! Ukraine was one of the founding members and had one of the best standards of living in the Soviet Union more than one Ukrainian were President of the Soviet Union, the Soviet Union invested a lot of money into the Country and modernized it, there was a lot wrong with the Country but also many things were right.

 

[the watcher]

 

[Mushroom]

Seriously, a video by Oliver Stone? The guy that has not met a conspiracy theory he has not liked? And darling of Marxists everywhere, especially after creating that "documentary" which was almost a love letter to Putin and Russia.

In case you are not aware, Old Ollie Stone is really not taken seriously anymore. For the past several years he has created several interviews, this documentary and the like. All of which essentially have him fellating Putin. Even back in 2017 stating that Putin had absolutely no intention of invading Ukraine.

Yeah, that aged about as well as fine milk. And after Russia started the current war, basically all he said in response was to spin it around and try to talk about wars the US has been in. In case you are not aware, nobody really takes him seriously anymore. Well, that is unless they also are drooling to fellate Putin themselves.

 

[AZrailwhale]

You don't think that overthrowing Iraq's government had any unpleasant consequences for us? Or the constant meddling in Europe and Africa had any blowback? Who could have predicted that setting up Zelensky would have started some shit? Chickens have a way of getting back to the roost. You need help. Mapped: The 7 Governments the U.S. Has Overthrown

Getting rid of Saddam was a positive. Iraq hadn’t been invading any of its neighbors since he was hung. As for Ukraine, we had nothing to do with the people of Ukraine using a legal process to get rid of a Russian puppet who was ruling against the expressed desires of the Ukrainian people,

 

[AZrailwhale]

I didn't say they can do no wrong, but the situation just after WW2 was unique and different, the Soviet Union as it was at the time after just coming through a total war that cost them millions of lives were not going to give up their security again on their borders, as we can see today NATO threatening that security, and i repeat don't expect any sympathy from me about Hungarian Fascists being put in their place, as for telling other Countries should be allowed to determine their own course try telling the US they lecture and threaten anyone who doesn't follow their orders, and Ukraine and NATOs were warned many times Ukraine would not be allowed to join NATO by Russia because that would be a direct threat to Russia, the idiots didn't listen but they will listen now.

If to you “security” means conquering ALL of your neighbors so other countries who have recently been providing you with the sinews of war don’t invade you, you have a very different definition of security than any other nation or person.

NATO isn’t threatening Russia’s security, no one bothered Russia as long as it stayed inside its own borders and didn’t invade its neighbors. But that didn’t stop Russia from invading both Georgia and Ukraine and stealing parts of their countries.

 

[Moonglow]

With a memorandum, written by a collaboration of newly minted "security" specialists and corporate spokesmen. Create a boogyman, put Reinhart Gehlen who was Hitler's spy chief and his crew to work to feed Congress with inflated threats and get more funding and power. Oh, keep it secret for 25 years and let the mockingbird press run with it. That's how our war economy was built, and it remains today. That is why voting doesn't matter as much as you might think. Milestones in the History of U.S. Foreign Relations - Office of the Historian

They were first pissed by the ability of the people to overthrow the Tsar and the power players of Europe refused to recognize their existence until they needed an ally against Hitler.

 

[Deadstick]

If to you “security” means conquering ALL of your neighbors so other countries who have recently been providing you with the sinews of war don’t invade you, you have a very different definition of security than any other nation or person.

NATO isn’t threatening Russia’s security, no one bothered Russia as long as it stayed inside its own borders and didn’t invade its neighbors. But that didn’t stop Russia from invading both Georgia and Ukraine and stealing parts of their countries.

 

[Deadstick]

Getting rid of Saddam was a positive. Iraq hadn’t been invading any of its neighbors since he was hung. As for Ukraine, we had nothing to do with the people of Ukraine using a legal process to get rid of a Russian puppet who was ruling against the expressed desires of the Ukrainian people,

The normal way to remove a Government is through an election, that didn't happen in Ukraine.

 

[Deadstick]

Seriously, a video by Oliver Stone? The guy that has not met a conspiracy theory he has not liked? And darling of Marxists everywhere, especially after creating that "documentary" which was almost a love letter to Putin and Russia.

In case you are not aware, Old Ollie Stone is really not taken seriously anymore. For the past several years he has created several interviews, this documentary and the like. All of which essentially have him fellating Putin. Even back in 2017 stating that Putin had absolutely no intention of invading Ukraine.

Yeah, that aged about as well as fine milk. And after Russia started the current war, basically all he said in response was to spin it around and try to talk about wars the US has been in. In case you are not aware, nobody really takes him seriously anymore. Well, that is unless they also are drooling to fellate Putin themselves.

Stone was spot on but you are in denial.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Yes, the numbers do add up. Starvation is the favorite tool of depots. Try reading more factual history instead of the fantasy of Howard zinn.

Some estimates have 100MM Chinese alone dying in the Cultural Revolution.
USSR only:
Holdomor
Purges
Gulag and the Great Terror
Invasion of Poland, Czechoslovakia, Chechnya, Hungary, Afghanistan

East German camps
Warsaw Pact oppression
Cuba
Chinese camps: 1MM Rohindra alone
North Korea IS A CAMP
Pol Pot

 

[AZrailwhale]

The normal way to remove a Government is through an election, that didn't happen in Ukraine.

Impeachment is perfectly legal and the government of Ukraine IMPEACHED the Russian puppet Poroshenko who then fled to Russia for protection from his own government.

 

[Mushroom]

Getting rid of Saddam was a positive. Iraq hadn’t been invading any of its neighbors since he was hung.

Nor was he using poison gas on his own people or slaughtering them.

His death toll in the latter part of the 20th century is only exceeded by the Khmer Rouge, with over a million killed. And they are still finding mass graves from his era all over the country.

That is just one of two mass graves linked to a purge he conducted in 1991 that killed over 100,000 people. And it is believed the death toll just from that single purge may have reached as high as 180,000.

Why people ignore the atrocities of his reign, I have absolutely no idea. And as many tend to proclaim loudly and often they are "Against Nazis", they completely give a pass to a government that is in all but name an "Arab NAZI Party". With books like Mein Kampf required reading for those in the government.

And much of the foundation of the party literally developed by individuals who had belonged to the League of Nationalist Action. A Syrian party that was inspired by the Nazi party before WWII, and even called their paramilitary group the "Ironshirts". And modern Neo-Nazis were praising Ba'athist leader Bashar al-Assad.

I guess in their eyes some Nazis are awesome.

 

[Mushroom]

Impeachment is perfectly legal and the government of Ukraine IMPEACHED the Russian puppet Poroshenko who then fled to Russia for protection from his own government.

Uhhh, I think you made a mistake there. Are you sure you mean Petro Poroshenko and not Viktor Yanukovych?

Poroshenko lost in an election, he was not removed from office. And he did not flee the country after that.

I am pretty sure you are talking about Yanukovych. Parliament in 2014 did indeed vote unanimously to strike all changes he had made to the government, and returned to the 2004 Constitution. Then the next day voted and removed him from office, and then ordered his detainment, but he had already fled to Russia by that time.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Uhhh, I think you made a mistake there. Are you sure you mean Petro Poroshenko and not Viktor Yanukovych?

Poroshenko lost in an election, he was not removed from office. And he did not flee the country after that.

I am pretty sure you are talking about Yanukovych. Parliament in 2014 did indeed vote unanimously to strike all changes he had made to the government, and returned to the 2004 Constitution. Then the next day voted and removed him from office, and then ordered his detainment, but he had already fled to Russia by that time.

You’re correct, I just looked up a list of presidents of Ukraine and Poroshenko was listed before Zelensky. My bad.

 

[Deadstick]

Impeachment is perfectly legal and the government of Ukraine IMPEACHED the Russian puppet Poroshenko who then fled to Russia for protection from his own government.

Not when it took a coup to bring it about, and you forget the agreement that was signed between the Maidan gang and Yanukovych to end the violence but the Nazi element said they wouldn't have it, not long after Government buildings were stormed by the mob, the deal would have given the Maidan gang almost everything but the Nazis had a different agenda,some people didn't want that deal and it wasn't Yanukovych it was the Coup leaders and their US/EU backers.

• The 2004 constitution will be restored within 48 hours, and a national unity government will be formed within 10 days
• Constitutional reform balancing the powers of president, government and parliament will be started immediately and completed by September
• A presidential election will be held after the new constitution is adopted but no later than December 2014, and new electoral laws will be passed
• An investigation into recent acts of violence will be conducted under joint monitoring from the authorities, the opposition and the Council of Europe
• The authorities will not impose a state of emergency and both the authorities and the opposition will refrain from the use of violence
• Illegal weapons will be handed over to interior ministry bodies

The agreement was later signed by Mr Yanukovych and opposition leaders Vitali Klitschko, Arseniy Yatsenyuk and Oleh Tyahnibok at the presidential administration headquarters in Kiev.

Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski tweeted, external that the deal was a "good compromise for Ukraine" which would open the way "to reform and to Europe".

Mr Sikorski told reporters on his return to Warsaw that Russia had played a constructive role in reaching the agreement.

The White House has welcomed Friday's deal, external, praising "the courageous opposition leaders who recognised the need for compromise".

President Barack Obama is due to speak to his Russian counterpart, Vladimir Putin, later on Friday.

UK Prime Minister David Cameron also welcomed the agreement and called on all sides in Ukraine to "get behind this deal and deliver it according to the timetable set out".