Zone1 Christendom's Trinity - Where Did It Come From?

That boils down to how humans as a whole get to know who Jesus is. It's from the Bible as a testimony from His eyewitnesses, mainly and legitimately His direct disciples and Paul (who is called supernatually as all OT prophets).

From Thomas,
John 20:28
Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!"


Thomas called Jesus God while Jesus didn't correct him, it's a blasphemy if one who is not God Himself accepts this implicitly or explicitly.

It's more obvious by John where only God can be deemed "Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end".

Revelation 1:7-8
Look! He is coming with the clouds; every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and on his account all the tribes of the earth will wail. So it is to be. Amen.
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.


This is explicit enough, you may try hard to take it implcitly though.

Revelation 21:6
Then he said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give water as a gift from the spring of the water of life.


This is completely explicit, as "water of life" is referring to Jesus deed in Jerusalam.

Revelation 22:12-13
"See, I am coming soon; my reward is with me, to repay according to everyone's work.
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."


Again, this is explicit enough as "I am coming" is commonly referred to as Jesus' second coming.


By Jesus Himself,
Matthew 22:44
The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand, until I put your enemies under your feet"


This is the same deity claim, as it implicitly says that Jesus is before David. You'll have a hard time to explain who the two Lords are without the Trinity concept.

Matthew 9:2
And just then some people were carrying a paralyzed man lying on a bed. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven."


In Jewish concept back then, only God can forgive sins. That's why the teachers of Law on site are all offended. Jesus however told them,

Matthew 9:6
But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins"



In a similar scenario,

John 10:28-30
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one will snatch them out of my hand.
What my Father has given me is greater than all else, and no one can snatch it out of the Father's hand.
The Father and I are one.


In Jewish/Pharisaic concept back then, only God can grant eternal life. "no one will snatch them out of my hand", and "no one can snatch it out of the Father's hand", and "The Father and I are one." This is again a very much explicit deity claim.

In another well known scenario,

John 8:58-59
Jesus said to them, "Very truly, I tell you, before Abraham was, I am."
So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.


The Jews on site are offended, as they all know the implicit meaning of "I AM" as a clear deity claim.


You may see how offensive it is in the Greek translations;
Septuagint:
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John 8:58
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You are a false bearer spreading lies for your own gain. I showed you the error your teachers gave you that was false and they knew it. Keep listening to them so you can hide your lies even more.
Refuse to accept reality about the one who started your religion, even though its recorded history facts i shared--Error or false prophecy's?
 
Refuse to accept reality about the one who started your religion, even though its recorded history facts i shared--Error or false prophecy's?
I already correct your lies. And, everyone else was able to see the lie spread by your Church too.
 
You can try to re-invent history all you want to. But, those that did this claimed more than just being scholars. They attempted to see the future in which prophets, seers and revelatory do. Causing fear amongst their followers.
Let me also say that I would more support trinitarians than anyone who demeans Jesus Christ as anything less than God as the Bible and true latter day prophets teach.
Cougarbear:

I'm glad you've admitted that you're not interested in spiritual truths.


Alter2Ego
 
I don’t care what AI says about Jesus Christ and Jehovah. I know what I read and I know what the Holy Ghost bears witness to. I also know more about the Godhead than you do. It’s you who refuses to just read and pray about what you are reading.
Cougarbear:

So you're admitting that you were telling a fib at Post 186 when you claimed you've looked up the name "Jehovah" many times (to confirm your false claim that Jehovah is the son).



Alter2Ego
 
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When did the doctrine of the trinity begin?

The formal formulation of the Trinity doctrine, as understood today, began with the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. While the concept of a triune God was developing in early Christianity, it was at Nicaea that church leaders defined the Son's relationship to the Father as "of the same substance" (homoousios), a key element of the Trinity. The Nicene Creed, formulated at Nicaea, asserted the divinity of Christ and laid the groundwork for later Trinitarian theology. Although the Council of Nicaea primarily focused on the divinity of Christ, the First Council of Constantinople in 381 added the Holy Spirit to the Trinitarian equation, formally establishing the doctrine of the Trinity.

Here's a more detailed timeline:
    • Early Christian Writings:
      .Opens in new tab

      The Didache, a document from the late 1st or early 2nd century, instructs baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, suggesting an early understanding of the three persons.
    • Tertullian (c. 155-220 AD):
      .Opens in new tab
      The first recorded use of the word "Trinity" is attributed to Tertullian.
    • Council of Nicaea (325 AD):
      .Opens in new tab
      The Council defined the Son's relationship to the Father as "of the same substance," a crucial step in developing the Trinitarian doctrine.
    • Council of Constantinople (381 AD):
      .Opens in new tab
      The council formally included the Holy Spirit in the doctrine, establishing the Trinity as three co-equal persons in one God.
ding:

You are correct. Yet, Trinitarians insist it's Bible-based, and most of them consistently refuse to be corrected by scripture.


Alter2Ego
 
That boils down to how humans as a whole get to know who Jesus is. It's from the Bible as a testimony from His eyewitnesses, mainly and legitimately His direct disciples and Paul (who is called supernatually as all OT prophets).

From Thomas,
John 20:28
Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!"


Thomas called Jesus God while Jesus didn't correct him, it's a blasphemy if one who is not God Himself accepts this implicitly or explicitly.
Hawkins:

Thomas can't help you on this because Thomas was an imperfect human. You are snatching at straws by using the argument that Jesus didn't correct Thomas. He didn't have to. The context to John 20:28 contradicts Thomas by reminding the reader that Jesus is the Son of God.

John 20:31

"But these have been written down so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and because of believing, you may have life by means of his name."


And remember, Thomas' exclamation came after Jesus died. Scripture says God cannot die. Notice the scripture below from a Trinitarian Bible translation. Pay particular attention to the words that I bolded in red.


"{14} Keep this commandment without stain or reproach until the appearance of our Lord Jesus Christ, {15} which the blessed and only Sovereign One—the King of kings and Lord of lords—will bring about in His own time. {16} He alone is immortal and dwells in unapproachable light. No one has ever seen Him, nor can anyone see Him. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen. (1 Timothy 6:14-16)

See that? Verse 14 mentions Jesus, and then verse 15 informs the reader about another person described as "Sovereign One--the King of kings and Lord of lords." That second spirit person, according to verse 16, is the only person who is immortal and has never been seen by anyone.

1. Jesus was seen by hundreds of people.
2. The scripture at 1 Timothy 6:16 says God cannot be seen by humans.
3. Jesus died; therefore, he is not immortal.
4. The scripture at 1 Timothy 6:16 says Almighty God Jehovah is the only person who is immortal.
5. An immortal person cannot die.


I will respond to the rest of your scriptures later.


Alter2Ego
 
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Cougarbear:

I'm glad you've admitted that you're not interested in spiritual truths.


Alter2Ego
All that I speak and write come from God. I testify that all I've given to you is true and from God.
 
Cougarbear:

So you're admitting that you were telling a fib at Post 186 when you claimed you've looked up the name "Jehovah" many times (to confirm your false claim that Jehovah is the son).



Alter2Ego
You now have the truth. Jesus Christ came down from his throne to atone for our sins and give all the opportunity of grace to be resurrected and live again. Before he came down, he was Jehovah without an earthly body. He, and all who have descended from heaven, are sons and daughters of Heavenly Father. This includes Jehovah. It's clear in the verses I've enlightened you with. The I AM that Moses spoke with is also the I AM Peter was called by to be an apostle. What you do with it is your business. But, you have been taught.
 
Cougarbear:

I'm glad you've admitted that you're not interested in spiritual truths.


Alter2Ego


All that I speak and write come from God. I testify that all I've given to you is true and from God.

Cougarbear:

I beg to differ in light of the fact scriptures in the Judeo-Christian Bible contradict all of your Trinitarian claims. If you've really convinced yourself that "all" that you "speak and write come from God," despite the fact you've been shown scriptures that contradict your personal philosophy and your cherry-picked verses, then there's nothing that anyone can do for you.

A person has to be sighing and groaning over the detestable things (including false religious teachings)--as stated in the book of Ezekiel--in order for that person to show humility and be willing to be corrected by scripture.

Ezekiel 9:4

"Jehovah said to him: “Go through the city, through Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who are sighing and groaning over all the detestable things that are being done in the city.”


You haven't reached that point yet. I hope one day you will.


Alter2Ego
 
Cougarbear:

So you're admitting that you were telling a fib at Post 186 when you claimed you've looked up the name "Jehovah" many times (to confirm your false claim that Jehovah is the son).

You now have the truth. Jesus Christ came down from his throne to atone for our sins and give all the opportunity of grace to be resurrected and live again. Before he came down, he was Jehovah without an earthly body. He, and all who have descended from heaven, are sons and daughters of Heavenly Father. This includes Jehovah. It's clear in the verses I've enlightened you with. The I AM that Moses spoke with is also the I AM Peter was called by to be an apostle. What you do with it is your business. But, you have been taught.

Repeating the same nonsense isn't helping your case, Cougarbear, especially after you lied about looking up the name Jehovah online to prove that Jehovah is Jesus, then came back and admitted to me that you had not looked it up at all.

The next time you post anything saying Jesus is Jehovah or Jehovah is the son, don't expect me to respond, because at this point it's clear to all those reading this thread that you're simply playing the fool.


Alter2Ego
 
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All that I speak and write come from God. I testify that all I've given to you is true and from God.
Every false Christian religion believes as you do--they are mislead as you are. Mislead by satan and his teachers transforming into angels of light( 2Cor 11:12-15)
 
You now have the truth. Jesus Christ came down from his throne to atone for our sins and give all the opportunity of grace to be resurrected and live again. Before he came down, he was Jehovah without an earthly body. He, and all who have descended from heaven, are sons and daughters of Heavenly Father. This includes Jehovah. It's clear in the verses I've enlightened you with. The I AM that Moses spoke with is also the I AM Peter was called by to be an apostle. What you do with it is your business. But, you have been taught.
Cougarbear:

There is no Hebrew translation where the word "I am" is someone's personal name. "I am" is part of a sentence. It's never someone's personal name.


Alter2Ego
 
15th post
Cougarbear:

I beg to differ in light of the fact scriptures in the Judeo-Christian Bible contradict all of your Trinitarian claims. If you've really convinced yourself that "all" that you "speak and write come from God," despite the fact you've been shown scriptures that contradict your personal philosophy and your cherry-picked verses, then there's nothing that anyone can do for you.

A person has to be sighing and groaning over the detestable things (including false religious teachings)--as stated in the book of Ezekiel--in order for that person to show humility and be willing to be corrected by scripture.

Ezekiel 9:4

"Jehovah said to him: “Go through the city, through Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who are sighing and groaning over all the detestable things that are being done in the city.”


You haven't reached that point yet. I hope one day you will.


Alter2Ego
I’ve given only Biblical evidence that there are three members of the Godhead. By the way, Paul would have never used Godhead if there was only one member. So, I guess if Jesus speaks you don’t have to listen since he’s not God. Do you wait around for your one God to say do it because he isn’t God? You have to only hear from God himself before believing and doing his will? I hope you will see the error of your way?
 
Repeating the same nonsense isn't helping your case, Cougarbear, especially after you lied about looking up the name Jehovah online to prove that Jehovah is Jesus, then came back and admitted to me that you had not looked it up at all.

The next time you post anything saying Jesus is Jehovah or Jehovah is the son, don't expect me to respond, because at this point it's clear to all those reading this thread that you're simply playing the fool.


Alter2Ego
I don’t have to prove Jesus is Jehovah. Jesus said it. But JWs have low comprehension skills.
 
Every false Christian religion believes as you do--they are mislead as you are. Mislead by satan and his teachers transforming into angels of light( 2Cor 11:12-15)
So you admit you are not Christian. The only other possibility is Devil worshipping.
 
IMO the 'Holy Spirit' (formerly Holy Ghost) depicts a belief in an over-arching continuum in which we all exist and are a part of like an "ocean" and we constitute the waves. We (the waves) rise up and recede back into the 'ocean' which we are forever a part of.
We are all connected for sure. On what I don’t know.
 

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