Zone1 James 1: the perfect law of liberty

[HikerGuy83]

James 1 and the entire book of James brings together several concepts taught in the bible and not acknowledged.

And it certainly does not support that idea that confession, alone, brings about exhalation.

We can start with versus 2-4:

2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;

3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

Why, would it be a reason to be joyful to fall into temptation.

And how is that trying your faith worketh patience and that patience makes you perfect?

You should be perfect? Or trying to be?

Matthew 5:48 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Now, some will argue that the word perfect can mean different things. Whatever you accept, it applies the God of the Universe too. So that is just quibbling.

Jesus is telling you to "be" as your Father in Heaven. That isn't a request.

It's a directive.

Unraveling it takes a whole lifetime and beyond.

But no, just accepting and then calling it good.

 

[Meriweather]

Now, some will argue that the word perfect can mean different things. Whatever you accept, it applies the God of the Universe too. So that is just quibbling.

Perfect has evolved to mean different things. The closest meaning in Hebrew and Biblical times is completion. It has always reminded me of one of my favorite sayings: Good enough never is. God does not settle for "good enough" and nor should we.

 

[Winston]

James 1 and the entire book of James brings together several concepts taught in the bible and not acknowledged.

And it certainly does not support that idea that confession, alone, brings about exhalation.

We can start with versus 2-4:

2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;

3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

Why, would it be a reason to be joyful to fall into temptation.

And how is that trying your faith worketh patience and that patience makes you perfect?

You should be perfect? Or trying to be?

Matthew 5:48 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Now, some will argue that the word perfect can mean different things. Whatever you accept, it applies the God of the Universe too. So that is just quibbling.

Jesus is telling you to "be" as your Father in Heaven. That isn't a request.

It's a directive.

Unraveling it takes a whole lifetime and beyond.

But no, just accepting and then calling it good.

James may very well be my favorite book in the Bible. It is my understanding that the book was circulated like a poster on a telephone pole. But in that book,

If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

James 2:15-17

 

[HikerGuy83]

James may very well be my favorite book in the Bible. It is my understanding that the book was circulated like a poster on a telephone pole. But in that book,

If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

James 2:15-17

We will eventually reach that in the progression of this thread.

Thank you for pointing it out as part of the fundamental premise.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Perfect has evolved to mean different things. The closest meaning in Hebrew and Biblical times is completion. It has always reminded me of one of my favorite sayings: Good enough never is. God does not settle for "good enough" and nor should we.

My point being that what we are told to aspire to are attributes of God.

We find joy in the journey, but it is a journey and works (our meager pathetic offerings) do have consequence. Not in God's economy, per se, but in our personal journey to throw off the natural man and aquire the

Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Meaning.....whatever you choose to use as your measure of being "perfect".

 

[HikerGuy83]

Next up: Verse 12

12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

Assuming that people think the "crown of life" is a good thing....

Then we are told to endure temptations. You can decide just what that means to you, but it's clear that it means resist. Don't do it. Follow the commandments.

John 14:15: If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Don't know how it gets any more straightforward than that.

So....the crown of like is promised to those who love HIm (keep his commandments).

Is this what people call works-based faith?

 

[Clyde 154]

James 1 and the entire book of James brings together several concepts taught in the bible and not acknowledged.

And it certainly does not support that idea that confession, alone, brings about exhalation.

We can start with versus 2-4:

2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;

3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

Why, would it be a reason to be joyful to fall into temptation.

And how is that trying your faith worketh patience and that patience makes you perfect?

You should be perfect? Or trying to be?

Matthew 5:48 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Now, some will argue that the word perfect can mean different things. Whatever you accept, it applies the God of the Universe too. So that is just quibbling.

Jesus is telling you to "be" as your Father in Heaven. That isn't a request.

It's a directive.

Unraveling it takes a whole lifetime and beyond.

But no, just accepting and then calling it good.

Its not man that must be perfect or Jesus Christ came to earth and died upon the sacrificial cross for nothing, the OLD LAW would still be in effect there would be no need for GRACE.....the PERFECT references the law delivered, the gospel of Christ, in which man finds LIBERTY.

James is pointing out that faith without works is dead.......and works without faith is just as dead. Faith and Works do not oppose......they complement.

Perfect as used means complete/whole, it's the same Perfect found in 1 Cor. 13, "when that which is PERFECT (complete/whole) comes....."

The promise from God to man is the fact that the law of liberty will be complete......nothing else but the law of grace can save mankind as "ALL MEN SIN.........". "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive our sin, and to cleanse as from all unrighteousness." -- 1 John 1:8-10

 

[HikerGuy83]

James is pointing out that faith without works is dead.......and works without faith is just as dead. Faith and Works do not oppose......they complement.

How?

We have threads about "Works based faith" (whatever that definition looks like) that accept the idea that works are meaningless.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Continuing....

He instructs us not to err......Every good gift is from above. The ultimate being the gift of salvation/exaltation which is only possible through the Atonement of the Lord. However, the err is to think we are not accountable.......He instructs on how to act......

16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.


18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:

20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

He then sums it up......

22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

That is not an option. It is an istruction. And it has impact on our eternal destinies. Not for the reasons some claim.....

This statement sums it up nicely......

From such teachings we conclude that the Final Judgment is not just an evaluation of a sum total of good and evil acts—what we have done. It is an acknowledgment of the final effect of our acts and thoughts—what we have become. It is not enough for anyone just to go through the motions. The commandments, ordinances, and covenants of the gospel are not a list of deposits required to be made in some heavenly account. The gospel of Jesus Christ is a plan that shows us how to become what our Heavenly Father desires us to become.

 

[Clyde 154]

How?

We have threads about "Works based faith" (whatever that definition looks like) that accept the idea that works are meaningless.

IF YOU SAY THAT MAN CAN BE PERFECT........you are obviously lying to yourself. -- 1 John 1: 8-10

FAITH ALONE? The devil believes in God......but trembles in fear. Faith alone will not save anyone.

What? Can't find the book, chapter and verse? "What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says, 'Depart in peace, be warmed and filled, 'but, you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit." THUS ALSO FAITH BY ITSELF, IF IT DOES NOT HAVE WORKS IS DEAD." -- James 2:14-17

More? Without ambiguity: "You believe there is ONE GOD. You do well. EVEN THE DEMONS BELIEVE......AND TREMBLE. ............Oh foolish man, faith without works is dead." -- James 2:19-20

As clearly pointed out, unambiguously: Faith and Works do not oppose......both are required, one must depend upon the other.

And as John points out: ALL MEN ARE GUILTY of SIN..........salvation comes only through Grace and the SACRIFICE of JESUS CHRIST who is always just to forgive our sin (when confessed with repentance/change away from). -- 1 John 1:8-10


There is only 1 unforgivable sin........the unrepentant sin. "For if we go on sinning after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins." -- Hebrews 10:26

 

[HikerGuy83]

IF YOU SAY THAT MAN CAN BE PERFECT........you are obviously lying to yourself. -- 1 John 1: 8-10

FAITH ALONE? The devil believes in God......but trembles in fear. Faith alone will not save anyone.

What? Can't find the book, chapter and verse? "What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says, 'Depart in peace, be warmed and filled, 'but, you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit." THUS ALSO FAITH BY ITSELF, IF IT DOES NOT HAVE WORKS IS DEAD." -- James 2:14-17

More? Without ambiguity: "You believe there is ONE GOD. You do well. EVEN THE DEMONS BELIEVE......AND TREMBLE. ............Oh foolish man, faith without works is dead." -- James 2:19-20

As clearly pointed out, unambiguously: Faith and Works do not oppose......both are required, one must depend upon the other.

And as John points out: ALL MEN ARE GUILTY of SIN..........salvation comes only through Grace and the SACRIFICE of JESUS CHRIST who is always just to forgive our sin (when confessed with repentance/change away from). -- 1 John 1:8-10


There is only 1 unforgivable sin........the unrepentant sin. "For if we go on sinning after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins." -- Hebrews 10:26

O.K.

Thanks.

Was there a point you were trying to make? I can't tell if you are supporting what I said or arguing against it.