Zone1 Christendom's Trinity - Where Did It Come From?

[kjw47]

Your scholars who falsely prophesied the end of the world 5 times now changed the Word of God in the Bible to fit the other lies they teach you. I and others have given you several scriptures to prove you changed the doctrine. Shame on you.

Your prophet made many bad predictions-was he a false prophet or was it error? Its the same in both cases--What do you say?

 

[Alter2Ego]

Cougarbear:

That's incorrect. At John 10:34, Jesus was simply quoting what Jehovah said at Psalm 82:6. Notice the quotation below from a Trinitarian Bible translation.

"Jesus replied, “It is written in your own Scriptures that God said to certain leaders of the people, ‘I say, you are gods!’ (John 10:34 -- New Living Translation)

Your translation to hide the fact that he said I SAID, Ye are gods, and children of the most high. Shame on JWs. You guys did that because every time you'd run into a Mormon missionary, they would blow you away...

What are you talking about, Cougarbear? I quoted from New Living Translation. That's a Trinitarian Bible and has nothing to do with Jehovah's Witnesses. Don't believe me? Go look it up "New Living Translation" on the Internet, and you will see who the publisher is.

Alter2Ego

 

[Alter2Ego]

Cougarbear:

You know perfectly well that Jesus is the Son and that Jehovah is the Father.

In fact, I challenge you to go online and look up the name Jehovah? Do that, and then come back and repeat that nonsense that I bolded above where you falsely claimed "Jehovah is not the Father. Jehovah is the Son."

I will wait.


Alter2Ego

Your scholars who falsely prophesied the end of the world 5 times now changed the Word of God in the Bible to fit the other lies they teach you. I and others have given you several scriptures to prove you changed the doctrine. Shame on you.

Cougarbear:

I gave you a challenge. You're project is to look up the name Jehovah on the Internet in order to prove that Jehovah is the son; remember?

Stop stalling.


Alter2Ego

 

[Cougarbear]

Your prophet made many bad predictions-was he a false prophet or was it error? Its the same in both cases--What do you say?

What predictions? His only real prophecy was what in in the Doctrine and Covenants 87 about the Civil War. Anything else that isn't in our standard works is just opinions. As with prophets of OT and NT, there is always an out by saying if the people don't repent, this is what will happen. Your prophet gave a specific date and time that passed by. Your prophet gave excuses and kept kicking the can down the road, changing the words in the Bible, to attempt to create a new religion and depose Jesus Christ of his Godhead position as the Lord God of Israel.

 

[Cougarbear]

What are you talking about, Cougarbear? I quoted from New Living Translation. That's a Trinitarian Bible and has nothing to do with Jehovah's Witnesses. Don't believe me? Go look it up "New Living Translation" on the Internet, and you will see who the publisher is.

Alter2Ego

The New Living Translation? LOL! The New? We don't need the New Living Translation. All others have it correct. This came out of the work of 90 scholars in 1996 who apposed the LDS Church doctrine that we can become heirs to our Father's Kingdom and even continue on to become a god of our own universes. As JW's they had to butcher the meaning by re-translating and re-translating. Uggg! Along with the KJV, the NIV and the Catholic Bibles. It cracks me up that it's even in your JW Bible! And, you use the NLT Bible? LOL! From the JW Bible, verse 34 is an answer to verse 33, "The Jews answered him: "We are stoning you, not for a fine work, but for blasphemy, for you, although being a man, make yourself a god." Jesus answered that specific statement by reminding them "I said: You are gods?" Going back to Psalms 82, there is more after he said, "Ye are gods." He then says, but children of the Most High God. Meaning that we are gods in embryo learning the knowledge to become a god. Celestial glory (1Cor. 15:41-44)

 

[Cougarbear]

Cougarbear:

I gave you a challenge. You're project is to look up the name Jehovah on the Internet in order to prove that Jehovah is the son; remember?

Stop stalling.


Alter2Ego

I've already done it many times. Jesus in John 10:34 refers to what he stated to the people in Psalms 82:6. He said they have it in their scriptures of what He said to them about a 1000 years earlier, "I told you that ye are gods." The people didn't believe him in 1000BC and again didn't believe him while he was preaching in 33AD. And, most people aren't believing Him again today. You do know what the transitive or substitution property in algebra is? Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus is Jehovah based on the transitive property above. Jehovah is the Son of God. Stop being like the naysayers of old. Use that brain God gave you to logically reason for a change.
Also if you would bother googling yourself, how many times in the Bible does it say Jesus is the Son of God, it's 76 times, 65 by Jesus himself. Jehovah and Jesus both state they are "I am." by name. Logic says Jesus is Jehovah, the Son of God.

 

[Alter2Ego]

Your scholars who falsely prophesied the end of the world 5 times now changed the Word of God in the Bible to fit the other lies they teach you. I and others have given you several scriptures to prove you changed the doctrine. Shame on you.

Cougarbear:

You are confused. Jehovah's Witnesses have never prophesied anything. Only Jehovah, the Father, has the ability to accurately prophecy.

What you are referring to when you claim the end of the world was "prophesied" five times by Jehovah's people was their attempt at pinpointing when Satan's wicked system would end, based upon prophecy found in God's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible.

Attempting to pinpoint when an event will occur--when the event is actually prophesied in the Bible--is a far cry from prophesying the event.

Compare that miscalculation by Jehovah's servants to the false claims made by Christendom's religious "leaders" about a 3-in-1 god. That false claim about a trinity god has had millions of Christendom's members worshipping a non-existent trinity god for over 2,000 years. Never mind that there is not one single verse of scripture in the Bible in support of a trinity god.

And let's not forget the long string of lies from the "leaders" within Christendom regarding the condition of the dead, including Christendom's version of Dante's fictional hell where dead people can literally feel the pain from burning flames for all eternity.


Compare the lies from Christendom's religious "leaders" -- none of which is supported by scripture -- against the miscalculation by Jehovah's people regarding the exact date with Satan's system will end, and then come back and tell me with a straight face that Christendom's lies are not harmful whereas the miscalculation of when Satan's system will end did not harm anyone who truly loves Jehovah.


Alter2Ego

 

[Alter2Ego]

I've already done it many times. Jesus in John 10:34 refers to what he stated to the people in Psalms 82:6. He said they have it in their scriptures of what He said to them about a 1000 years earlier, "I told you that ye are gods." The people didn't believe him in 1000BC and again didn't believe him while he was preaching in 33AD. And, most people aren't believing Him again today. You do know what the transitive or substitution property in algebra is? Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus is Jehovah based on the transitive property above. Jehovah is the Son of God. Stop being like the naysayers of old. Use that brain God gave you to logically reason for a change.
Also if you would bother googling yourself, how many times in the Bible does it say Jesus is the Son of God, it's 76 times, 65 by Jesus himself. Jehovah and Jesus both state they are "I am." by name. Logic says Jesus is Jehovah, the Son of God.

Cougarbear:

Nobody with common sense believes you looked up the name Jehovah on the Internet, based upon your nonsensical response above.

Until you do your homework, as I instructed you, I will have to give you a grade of "F" = FAIL.


Alter2Ego

 

[Alter2Ego]

The New Living Translation? LOL! The New? We don't need the New Living Translation. All others have it correct. This came out of the work of 90 scholars in 1996 who apposed the LDS Church doctrine that we can become heirs to our Father's Kingdom and even continue on to become a god of our own universes. As JW's they had to butcher the meaning by re-translating and re-translating. Uggg! Along with the KJV, the NIV and the Catholic Bibles. It cracks me up that it's even in your JW Bible! And, you use the NLT Bible? LOL! From the JW Bible, verse 34 is an answer to verse 33, "The Jews answered him: "We are stoning you, not for a fine work, but for blasphemy, for you, although being a man, make yourself a god." Jesus answered that specific statement by reminding them "I said: You are gods?" Going back to Psalms 82, there is more after he said, "Ye are gods." He then says, but children of the Most High God. Meaning that we are gods in embryo learning the knowledge to become a god. Celestial glory (1Cor. 15:41-44)

Cougarbear:

You claimed I was relying on the New World Translation published by Jehovah's Witnesses; remember? I quoted from New Living Translation published by an entirely different group of people, and their translation debunked your claim that Jesus was saying he is Jehovah.


Alter2Ego

 

[Alter2Ego]

What are you talking about, Cougarbear? I quoted from New Living Translation. That's a Trinitarian Bible and has nothing to do with Jehovah's Witnesses. Don't believe me? Go look it up "New Living Translation" on the Internet, and you will see who the publisher is.

Alter2Ego

The New Living Translation? LOL! The New? We don't need the New Living Translation. All others have it correct. This came out of the work of 90 scholars in 1996 who apposed the LDS Church doctrine that we can become heirs to our Father's Kingdom and even continue on to become a god of our own universes. As JW's they had to butcher the meaning by re-translating and re-translating. Uggg! Along with the KJV, the NIV and the Catholic Bibles. It cracks me up that it's even in your JW Bible! And, you use the NLT Bible? LOL! From the JW Bible, verse 34 is an answer to verse 33, "The Jews answered him: "We are stoning you, not for a fine work, but for blasphemy, for you, although being a man, make yourself a god." Jesus answered that specific statement by reminding them "I said: You are gods?" Going back to Psalms 82, there is more after he said, "Ye are gods." He then says, but children of the Most High God. Meaning that we are gods in embryo learning the knowledge to become a god. Celestial glory (1Cor. 15:41-44)

Really, Cougarbear? That's the game you now want to play in which any Bible translation that doesn't agree with your false claim about John 10:34, then that translation is wrong?

The identity of the speaker at Psalm 82:6 (whom you claim is Jesus) is identified at Psalm 82:1. Below is that verse quoted from three more Trinitarian Bible translations. Quotation #4 is quoted from the New World Translation published by Jehovah's Witnesses.


"A Psalm of Asaph. God takes His position in His assembly; He judges in the midst of the gods." (Psalm 82:1 -- New International Version)


"God presides in the great assembly. He judges among the gods." (Psalm 82:1 -- World English Bible)


"A Psalm of Asaph. God stands in the congregation of the mighty; He judges among the gods." (Psalm 82:1 --New King James Version)

Psalm 82:1​

"God takes his place in the divine assembly; In the middle of the gods he judges:" (Psalm 82:1 -- New World Translation by Jehovah's Witnesses)

Did you see who the speaker is, Cougarbear? It says "God" with capital "g." Not only that, but as anyone reading this thread can see, the translation by Jehovah's Witnesses is saying the exact same thing while you claim Jehovah's Witnesses changed the words in their translation. That's false.

Now, notice Psalm 82:6 that you cherry-picked. You ignored Psalm 82:1 -- the context -- so that you can keep insisting the words spoken at 82:6 are being spoken by Jesus. Pay attention to what God (with capital "g") aka the Most High aka Jehovah says at verse Psalm 82:6. I will use the same three Bibles that I used above.


"I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'" (Psalm 82:6 -- New International Version)

"I said, "You are gods, all of you are sons of the Most High." (Psalm 82:6 -- World English Bible)

"I said, “You are gods, And all of you are children of the Most High." (Psalm 82:6 --New King James Version)

Psalm 82:6​

“I have said, ‘You are gods, All of you are sons of the Most High." (Psalm 82:1 -- New World Translation by Jehovah's Witnesses)


Not only do all four Bibles say the exact same thing by identifying the speaker as God with capital "g" and referring to him as "the Most High" (Jesus is never referred to as the Most High), but as all reading this thread can see, the rendition by the Jehovah's Witnesses translation says exactly what the other Bibles are saying.

Your repeated claim that Jehovah's Witnesses changed the words of the scriptures is proven to be an outright fallacy. That, plus your claim that Jesus was referring to himself at John 10:34 when in reality Jesus was simply quoting what his Father/the Most High/Jehovah had said in the Hebrew Scriptures. Contemporary English Version (another Trinitarian translation) bears that out.

"Jesus replied: In your Scriptures doesn't God say, "You are gods"? (John 10:34 -- Contemporary English Version)


Alter2Ego

 

[kjw47]

What predictions? His only real prophecy was what in in the Doctrine and Covenants 87 about the Civil War. Anything else that isn't in our standard works is just opinions. As with prophets of OT and NT, there is always an out by saying if the people don't repent, this is what will happen. Your prophet gave a specific date and time that passed by. Your prophet gave excuses and kept kicking the can down the road, changing the words in the Bible, to attempt to create a new religion and depose Jesus Christ of his Godhead position as the Lord God of Israel.

Recorded history= Jesus is coming in 1835
In 1832 a temple will be built in independence Mo--They are still waiting.
1837 he stated- The Lord told him the moon was inhabited by men and women who lived to be 1000 years old
Claimed to have seen God( Father) and Jesus.

error or false prophet?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

task0778:

The Holy Ghost aka Holy Spirit is Jehovah God's power or active force that he uses to get things done. In other words, the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit is a possession of Almighty God. It is something, not someone.

ONE doctrine that I share with the JWs

 

[Cougarbear]

Cougarbear:

You are confused. Jehovah's Witnesses have never prophesied anything. Only Jehovah, the Father, has the ability to accurately prophecy.

What you are referring to when you claim the end of the world was "prophesied" five times by Jehovah's people was their attempt at pinpointing when Satan's wicked system would end, based upon prophecy found in God's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible.

Attempting to pinpoint when an event will occur--when the event is actually prophesied in the Bible--is a far cry from prophesying the event.

Compare that miscalculation by Jehovah's servants to the false claims made by Christendom's religious "leaders" about a 3-in-1 god. That false claim about a trinity god has had millions of Christendom's members worshipping a non-existent trinity god for over 2,000 years. Never mind that there is not one single verse of scripture in the Bible in support of a trinity god.

And let's not forget the long string of lies from the "leaders" within Christendom regarding the condition of the dead, including Christendom's version of Dante's fictional hell where dead people can literally feel the pain from burning flames for all eternity.


Compare the lies from Christendom's religious "leaders" -- none of which is supported by scripture -- against the miscalculation by Jehovah's people regarding the exact date with Satan's system will end, and then come back and tell me with a straight face that Christendom's lies are not harmful whereas the miscalculation of when Satan's system will end did not harm anyone who truly loves Jehovah.


Alter2Ego

You can try to re-invent history all you want to. But, those that did this claimed more than just being scholars. They attempted to see the future in which prophets, seers and revelatory do. Causing fear amongst their followers.
Let me also say that I would more support trinitarians than anyone who demeans Jesus Christ as anything less than God as the Bible and true latter day prophets teach.

 

[Cougarbear]

Cougarbear:

Nobody with common sense believes you looked up the name Jehovah on the Internet, based upon your nonsensical response above.

Until you do your homework, as I instructed you, I will have to give you a grade of "F" = FAIL.


Alter2Ego

I don’t care what AI says about Jesus Christ and Jehovah. I know what I read and I know what the Holy Ghost bears witness to. I also know more about the Godhead than you do. It’s you who refuses to just read and pray about what you are reading.

 

[Cougarbear]

Recorded history= Jesus is coming in 1835
In 1832 a temple will be built in independence Mo--They are still waiting.
1837 he stated- The Lord told him the moon was inhabited by men and women who lived to be 1000 years old
Claimed to have seen God( Father) and Jesus.

error or false prophet?

D&C130:14-16, “
14 I was once praying very earnestly to know the time of the coming of the Son of Man, when I heard a voice repeat the following: 15 Joseph, my son, if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years old, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man; therefore let this suffice, and trouble me no more on this matter. 16 I was left thus, without being able to decide whether this coming referred to the beginning of the millennium or to some previous appearing, or whether I should die and thus see his face.”
As you see, those deceivers only quote verses 14-15 and not verse 16. If you would bother studying fully you would find any other statements supposedly stated do not prophecy a date or time. Are you going to still spread lies? What will a JW do?

 

[ding]

When did the doctrine of the trinity begin?

The formal formulation of the Trinity doctrine, as understood today, began with the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. While the concept of a triune God was developing in early Christianity, it was at Nicaea that church leaders defined the Son's relationship to the Father as "of the same substance" (homoousios), a key element of the Trinity. The Nicene Creed, formulated at Nicaea, asserted the divinity of Christ and laid the groundwork for later Trinitarian theology. Although the Council of Nicaea primarily focused on the divinity of Christ, the First Council of Constantinople in 381 added the Holy Spirit to the Trinitarian equation, formally establishing the doctrine of the Trinity.

Here's a more detailed timeline:

• • Early Christian Writings:
    .Opens in new tab
    The Didache, a document from the late 1st or early 2nd century, instructs baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, suggesting an early understanding of the three persons.
    
  • Tertullian (c. 155-220 AD):
    .Opens in new tab
    The first recorded use of the word "Trinity" is attributed to Tertullian.
    
  • Council of Nicaea (325 AD):
    .Opens in new tab
    The Council defined the Son's relationship to the Father as "of the same substance," a crucial step in developing the Trinitarian doctrine.
    
  • Council of Constantinople (381 AD):
    .Opens in new tab
    The council formally included the Holy Spirit in the doctrine, establishing the Trinity as three co-equal persons in one God.

 

[kjw47]

D&C130:14-16, “
14 I was once praying very earnestly to know the time of the coming of the Son of Man, when I heard a voice repeat the following: 15 Joseph, my son, if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years old, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man; therefore let this suffice, and trouble me no more on this matter. 16 I was left thus, without being able to decide whether this coming referred to the beginning of the millennium or to some previous appearing, or whether I should die and thus see his face.”
As you see, those deceivers only quote verses 14-15 and not verse 16. If you would bother studying fully you would find any other statements supposedly stated do not prophecy a date or time. Are you going to still spread lies? What will a JW do?

Error or false prophecies?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

D&C130:14-16, “
14 I was once praying very earnestly to know the time of the coming of the Son of Man, when I heard a voice repeat the following: 15 Joseph, my son, if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years old, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man; therefore let this suffice, and trouble me no more on this matter. 16 I was left thus, without being able to decide whether this coming referred to the beginning of the millennium or to some previous appearing, or whether I should die and thus see his face.”
As you see, those deceivers only quote verses 14-15 and not verse 16. If you would bother studying fully you would find any other statements supposedly stated do not prophecy a date or time. Are you going to still spread lies? What will a JW do?

Joseph Smith was born in 1805
God speaks King James English in 180

 

[Cougarbear]

Error or false prophecies?

You are a false bearer spreading lies for your own gain. I showed you the error your teachers gave you that was false and they knew it. Keep listening to them so you can hide your lies even more.

 

[Cougarbear]

Joseph Smith was born in 1805
God speaks King James English in 180

In 180? King James of England was king in 180? Thanks for letting me know when Joseph Smith was born.