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Is that a dagger I feel, Judas, or a you just glad to see me?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnyL
Does this mean you don't like religion?
I disagree. Sounds to me like your indictment of religion is based on the actions of people from long ago, and the persent day extremists, who might make all the noise, but don't represent the majority of their respective religions.
In regard to Christianity specifically, NOTHING in the New Testament intones anyone to kill others in Christ's name. You may blame the idiot extremists that have done so, but blaming the religion itself is just misplacing blame.
Gunny:
Quote:
NOTHING in the New Testament intones anyone to kill others in Christ's name.
Au contraire, my highland flinging friend. Cheesus Crust said, "Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword and, to his dirty dozen Village People, Luke 22:36: "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."
Chewsarse, who, I remind you, is the Old Testament God too, also said,
"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)"
and,
"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.' (Matthew 23:1-3)"
And poofy Paul, Gods right-hand mouthpiece as far as Proddies are concerned, said,
Let us look at Romans 1:20-32 (from the New Testament) "20. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
23. and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24. Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
25. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.
26. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
27. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28. Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.
29. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,
30. slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;
31. they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
32. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."
You'll have to point out just where in any of the verses you quoted that Christ commands anyone to commit murder in His name. IMO, you have to be looking hard to find any such in those verses.
And before you get all worked and go off like you did on 8-ball, since I didn't even understand half of what you posted ..... I'm not trying to change you, nor prove you wrong. I am merely trying to understand what it is you believe and why you believe it.
Although they know
God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death,
Not all Christians believe that God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost are one entity. In fact the bible is fairly clear they are not. Jesus was the "son" of God and the Holy Spirit is a force that God uses.
Jesus preached forgiveness and peaceful relations. He negates part of the old testament with his new preachings.
Of course the Jews don't believe in Jesus so THEY still believe the old testament, but then, they aren't Christians. Next you will be telling us that because Islam preaches Jihad and death to infidels that this proves Christians are murderers also?
"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)"
He fulfilled them and his new teachings clearly preach forgiveness, and peace. But do pretend they don't.
One can not both "turn the other cheek" and do an "eye for an eye".
He does not, however, preach one should just roll into a ball and surrender. And in the end of times there will be a war, lead by Jesus, against evil.
But Jesus does not preach murder. Not in any way. In fact the old testament doesn't teach murder either. In fact murder is a sin. But do ignore that pesky part.
He negates part of the old testament with his new preachings.
Then he (Jewsarse) is a fucking liar,
..or the Bible is lying. What's it to be?
Belief in God is a matter of FAITH. It is NOT a matter of numbers. If all that mattered was how many people believed this or that I would assume we would all be the same religion, which ever happened to have the most people believe it.
I am not catholic and do not believe the Pope is a leader of the Christians of the world.
Unreasoning hate is like a cancer. I cant fathom how someone can maintain the energy to hate to begin with.
Thou shall not commit murder....
That is God's command.
Killing is not always murder. (How convenient! Where did Jesus say that?)
The death penalty for killing someone else, is not considered murder. (Where did Jesus say that?) (Though I am against the death penalty because of the injustice in our criminal system)
Self defense is not considered murder. (Where did Jesus say that?)
A JUST WAR and the killing that may take place in such, is NOT murder(Where did Jesus say that?)
An UNJUST WAR could be considered murder imo. (Where did Jesus say that?)
And your post on Jesus stating that NOT ONE of the old testament laws will pass away....
you posted the verse OUT OF CONTEXT.... you can pick and choose what verses you want to use against Christians, but without a full understanding and knowledge of the entire context of the Bible, they are useless...imho! (Where did Jesus say that?)
Care
I see your at it again. I suggest you actually read ALL the relevant portions. While only 144k may go to celestial heaven the earth will become a paradise and the rest will live here under the rule of Jesus. But do misquote all you want.
And provide some passage that supports your claim that only Jews will be in the 144 thousand.
KJV Rev Chapter 7:4And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Rev 14:1-5 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.
Sorry I didn't see, and therefore didn't answer, this post before Gunny.
The operative bit is,
And I can provide many more instances where God commands his Jewish goon squad to liquidate people.
Youre not going to suggest that God and Jesus arent one and the same thing, are you Gunny? (For the sake of brevity well leave Casper out of this)
Because if you are, you are talking evil Arian heresy and Eightball and the rest of the Bubba's will be duty bound to hate you!!
Hey, youre not (horror of horrors!) hypothesizing that they disagree on some things? That Jesus was just a red revolutionary Rabbi reforming a hard-core reactionary religion, that perceptive people were dropping off of like lice from a lepers jock strap? Maybe god(s) is like an inbred Tasmanian (try Tarheel) - with two heads that continually argue with each other!
Cause when it comes to the Bible Im actually as fundie as Eightball. I REFUSE to allow the fair-weather faithful to play cafeteria Christian, i.e. treat the Bible like a spiritual smorgasbord that they can pick and chose from when it suits them and disown it when it doesnt.
Either its ALL true or its ALL bullshit. I refuse to let Christians run with the hares and hunt with the hounds, so to speak.
To summarise, if Jehovah says it, you can bet your left knacker that Junior goes along with it 1000%.
Even Eightball will agree with me on this.
As for what I believe, thats easy. I believe that people who mindlessly follow, because they think that most other people do too, are the most evil people Satan ever put breath into. And I oughta know, I used to be one!
In other words, Im a curmudgeonly Contrarian!
...but anyway, the 12 tribes of israel were the names of the yahdeedah's, where 10,000 from each tribe were mentioned.... numerology and sybolism reeks with this passage about the 144k...
I see your at it again. I suggest you actually read ALL the relevant portions. While only 144k may go to celestial heaven the earth will become a paradise and the rest will live here under the rule of Jesus. But do misquote all you want.
And provide some passage that supports your claim that only Jews will be in the 144 thousand.
You're mixing Old Testament with New Testament. You can call it "cafeteria Christianity all you want, but the fact is, MAN wrote the Bible. Very little of it is verbatim "the word of God." Most is prefaced by "God said to me ..."
It isn't a matter of picking of choosing; rather, a matter of keeping events in context of their occurences.
A lot of Christ's teaching contradicts God's commands in the Old Testament. Whether God and Christ are the same is irrelevant in that sense because whether it is Christ bringing a new message, or God-as-Christ bringing a new message, Christianity is in no way near as hard line as Old Testament Judaism.
That is rich. Every time some person on the internet claims I am a fundimentalist I laugh. Your a bigot, plain and simple, your bigotry is directed at religious people, but it still is bigotry.
If I showed up at a fundi meeting they would likely fight over who got to tar and feather me LOL.
Your ignorance is astounding.
your bigotry is directed at religious people
