Zone1 Catholics: Is Jesus essentially "leaving" His (the Original) Church?

notmyfault2020

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OK, I already know the protestants will say that the Cahtolic Church is not the original or if it once was, it is not now because the Father of Protestantism came along (Luther) and made it Protestant and so we can now ditch the Catholic Church entirely if we haven't already.. I get that -- so please don't waste your time repeating it for what will be, for me, the 1000th time.

The point of this thread can only be fully understood by CATHOLICS. That is objective truth and I will not argue it.

But to you Catholics (yes, I know, you are few in number here.. and everywhere else): Sadly, maybe even you have never even experienced (in a profound way) the Real Presence of Christ found in His one Church, the Catholic Church. Well, I have and I am sure others here have as well. But something is going very wrong in the Church, and frankly, it seems to have happened along the XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX the US office of the presidency 2020. Mod Edited to avoid this thread being a bait thread in Zone 1 Religion and Ethics Forum. White 6.

I dunno.. In any case, I will not digress further.

The thing is, I have noticed that this Presence is not so present anymore in the Church. I cannot even detect it in some Churches I have been to. I once travelled a lot and have been to many Churches. Usually, I would feel this Presence as soon as I stepped through the door :) But it is not so strong anymore and I am wondering if Jesus is almost totally leaving His Church?

Vatican II was the beginning of this.. words fail.. this terrible situation..

But years have passed since then.. and in those years things have gotten worse and worse and worse with every passing year.

As always, I am in the process of learning about all this "new" stuff (though the Word says there is nothing new under the sun) RE the Church and related matters. So I know I will have more to say about all this later that may not jibe with what I've said just a few days b4.. But right now.. it is very interesting where I am right now..

Right now it seems Jesus is abandoning His Church.. not entirely because there are still devout Catholics and Jesus promised His Church would not fail.. There will always be Catholicism.. sorry about that, protesters..

But the Church is not what it once was. I say that some priests only serve the Church or appear to do so bc it benefits them... Once it takes any kind of sacrifice.. they are gone.. that's just my opinion. I don't know all priests.. But the ones I know.. OMG.. they seem to only be concerned with their own worldly comfort.. the flock can go to Hell.. just MY perceptions.. and I have massive experiences to draw on that lead me to saying this. . decades of being "in the Church"

Again the true Church is the SSPX Catholic Church-- the one that, through the work of Marcel Lefebvre (almost said Saint Lefebvre.. ) kept the Mass of All Times which was canonized (meaning that that decision, made ex cathedra, CANNOT ever be un-done). It was canonized by Pope SAINT Pius V at the Council of Trent in the 16th century..

(SSPX is: The Society of St Pius X)
 
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Satan took over the office of the presidency in 2020? You know that is batsht crazy don't you?
 
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oh...

i came here expecting to find a well-written, erudite comment that would get me to thinking on some profound point or another

sigh

should have known..

I did know, actually----what would happen. That's why I addressed it to Catholics.. If Bulldog is a Catholic... LOL to that..

actual bulldogs are more Catholic
 
oh...

i came here expecting to find a well-written, erudite comment that would get me to thinking on some profound point or another

sigh

should have known..

I did know, actually----what would happen. That's why I addressed it to Catholics.. If Bulldog is a Catholic... LOL to that..

actual bulldogs are more Catholic
Doesn't matter if I'm catholic or not. Claiming that the presidency was taken over by Satan in 2020 is batshit crazy and hateful. It's more suitable in the rubber room than in a rational discussion of religion and ethics. Obviously, you have been allowed to spout your hateful diatribes for so long without repercussions till you are shocked when someone suggests you return to sanity.
 
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Doesn't matter if I'm catholic or not. Claiming that the presidency was taken over by Satan in 2020 is batshit crazy and hateful. It's more suitable in the rubber room than in a rational discussion of religion and ethics. Obviously, you have been allowed to spout your hateful diatribes for so long without repercussions till you are shocked when someone suggests you return to sanity.
oh you poor abused little thing.. forced to read my posts..

how sad..

:rolleyes:
 
One Mediator!


by David J. Stewart


I received the following e-mail in November of 2005...
"I recently read your article concerning the rosary, and I want to let you know that I am a Catholic and a proud supporter of the rosary, and that I will be praying for you.
You are very deceived about the rosary, and I hope that God's guidance will come to your aid.
Catholics do not pray to Mary. We pray for her intercession. It's like asking a dear friend to pray for you. And who can be a better friend to us than Jesus' mother who so humbly and willingly cried out "FIAT"....May God's will be done, her whole life. We honor her because she draws us to her Son. In honoring someone's mother, you honor them in a special way. Jesus does not seek to damn those who love his mother. How can you speak ill of a mother, especially the mother of our Lord? May God bless you with every heavenly gift.
Sara"
A Biblical Response...
"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" -1st Timothy 2:5​
end_of_the_law.jpg
Though Sara may be very sincere, the "Blessed Virgin Mary" CANNOT make intercession for her. 1st Timothy 2:5 couldn't be any clearer or to the point, Jesus Christ is the ONE MEDIATOR between God and mankind. The Catholics commit idolatry when they bow before a statue of Mary or rely upon Mary to intercede for them.
As true believers in Christ, we believe that our saved loved ones are in heaven. However, they CANNOT make intercession for us. They can pray for us, but they have no special favor or power with God. A man once wrote me and said that I was wrong to teach that our loves ones in heaven could pray for us. He accused me of violating 1st Timothy 2:5. Folks, it is NOT wrong to ask someone in heaven to prayer for you. Is that not what happens here on earth every time you ask a Christian brother or sister to pray for you? Did not James advice us to call for the elders of the church when we're sick? (James 5:14). So there must be a big difference between asking someone to pray for you, verses expecting someone to reconcile things with God for you.
It wouldn't be wrong for me to ask my departed mother in heaven to pray for me, anymore than it would be wrong for me to ask my pastor or a friend to pray for me. Asking someone to pray for you is very different than asking someone to intercede for you. 1st Thessalonians 5:25..."Brethren, pray for us." Was the Apostle Paul asking the church of Thessalonica to mediate for him? Of course not! Paul simply realized the power of prayer. We are supposed to pray for each other (Galatians 6:2, "Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ"). Colossians 1:3 reads, "We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you." Was the Apostle Paul being arrogant? Was Paul claiming to be an intercessor? I mean, couldn't the people pray for themselves? There is nothing wrong with asking others to pray for us. Just because a loved one graduates on into glory doesn't mean that they can't pray for us.
I sincerely believe that the "great cloud of witnesses" in heaven (Hebrews 12:1) are able to watch the events taking place upon the earth to a limited degree. Please read the following verse carefully, "Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 18:10). Wow! Yes, there are guardian angels assigned to each believer. The angels are continually watching the face of the Father for his next command. You had better be careful how you treat a born again Christian because their guardian angel is just waiting for God's next command. This means that we are being monitored from heaven 24/7. Scary thought huh? In light of this Biblical truth, I do believe that our loved ones (who would want to inquire about us) are allowed certain desired information.
In addition, take a look at Luke 15:10..."Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth." In the presence of the angels? If the angels aren't the ones rejoicing, then who is? It can only be the saints! The context of Luke 15:10 implies clearly that the believers in heaven are aware to a certain extent of the events upon the earth.

What is a Mediator?
Definition of Mediate: To act between parties with a view to reconciling differences. To settle a dispute.

This is what is so damnable about the Roman Catholic's obsession with Mary, they expect Mary to reconcile them with God. The ONLY true path to peace with God is in Christ Jesus, "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Romans 5:1). Catholics look to Mother Mary to forgive their sins. Roman Catholics believe that a miracle happened in Fatima, Portugal (1917). They believe that the Blessed Virgin appeared in several apparitions to three young children. The Blessed Virgin promised the following...

"WHAT DOES THE MESSAGE OF FATIMA REQUEST?

At Fatima Our Lady said that God wished to establish in the world devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Our Lady said that many souls would be saved from Hell and the annihilation of nations averted if, in time, devotion to Her Immaculate Heart were established principally by these two means:

1) the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary by the Pope together with the world's bishops in a solemn public ceremony, and

(2) the practice or receiving Holy Communion (and other specific devotions of about 1/2 hour in duration) in reparation for the sins committed against the Blessed Virgin Mary, on the first Saturdays of five consecutive months--a practice known to Catholics as "the First Saturday" devotion.
What blasphemy!

"Our Lady said that many souls would be saved from Hell and the annihilation of nations averted if, in time, devotion to Her Immaculate Heart were established..."
Folks, Mary cannot do ANYTHING to help save you! Devotion to Mary's Immaculate Heart? Roman Catholics are taught to pray to different saints to unleash certain powers and blessings. Such blasphemous teachings are nothing less than Satanic. As Christians we may ask someone to pray for us, or perhaps we may say a prayer for them...but we DON'T pray TO each other. And that's the key difference. Catholics pray "TO" the departed saints (such as Saint Anthony). I distinctly remember visiting a Hispanic Catholic man in Chicago. He had a small table behind his front door. He had several glasses on the table filled with water to varying levels. He also had a statue of Saint Anthony on the table. There was a burning candle in the midst. Each glass of water had a penny at the bottom. A string came from the display on the table and ran across the floor behind the front door. After being intrigued by his strange display, I asked him what was the purpose of such a display. The man said that he was trying to keep evil spirits from entering his home.
Right down the street, there was a Catholic store for priests and Catholics. I went into the store to look at what they were selling. Inside were hundreds of charms, potions, spells, candles, and just about everything superstitious you could want to buy. As I learned more about Roman Catholicism, I found at that Catholics are very superstitious, especially in poorer countries. They burn their candles, perform their rituals, and eat feasts in honor of various saints. Surely, it wouldn't be wrong to sponsor a dinner in appreciation for a loved one, but to idolize the saints is a wicked sin!!! Catholics commit idolatry by praising and worshipping dead saints. Only Jesus is to be worshipped and praised, no one else. Roman Catholics look to the saints to make their life better, as if the Apostle Peter could do anything in heaven to help them. Folks, Jesus can hear the prayers of millions of Christians all at one time, he doesn't need any help receiving prayers.
And that's really the big question...why would Catholics pray to anyone other than God Himself? Think about that for a moment? Why? I mean, did God ask anyone to pray to Mary? No, He didn't! So why do Catholics and Lutherans show such fondness to a sinful woman? Mary was a sinner just like anyone else (Romans 3:10;23). The Bible proclaims that ALL have sinned (Romans 3:10). Yet, the Catholic Church blatantly rebels against the truth by teaching their damnable lies that Mary never sinned. I triple-dog dare you to show me that anywhere from the Word of God! You CANNOT! The Catholic religion is NOT infallible! Catholics are confused. They practice false worship.
In conclusion, Mary is NO mediator or intercessor...she is just a woman. No dead saint or living Pope can mediate for you. Though Catholics claim they are only honoring the dead saints and Mary, the truth of the matter is that they are obsessed with wicked idol worship. This is why the 2nd of the Ten Commandments is missing in their Catechism books. No saint or priest can reconcile your sinful heart to God. The ONLY way to obtain the righteousness of God is in Jesus Christ (2nd Corinthians 5:17). There is only ONE MEDIATOR...Jesus Christ!

 
One Mediator!


by David J. Stewart



Though Sara may be very sincere, the "Blessed Virgin Mary" CANNOT make intercession for her. 1st Timothy 2:5 couldn't be any clearer or to the point, Jesus Christ is the ONE MEDIATOR between God and mankind. The Catholics commit idolatry when they bow before a statue of Mary or rely upon Mary to intercede for them.
As true believers in Christ, we believe that our saved loved ones are in heaven. However, they CANNOT make intercession for us. They can pray for us, but they have no special favor or power with God. A man once wrote me and said that I was wrong to teach that our loves ones in heaven could pray for us. He accused me of violating 1st Timothy 2:5. Folks, it is NOT wrong to ask someone in heaven to prayer for you. Is that not what happens here on earth every time you ask a Christian brother or sister to pray for you? Did not James advice us to call for the elders of the church when we're sick? (James 5:14). So there must be a big difference between asking someone to pray for you, verses expecting someone to reconcile things with God for you.
It wouldn't be wrong for me to ask my departed mother in heaven to pray for me, anymore than it would be wrong for me to ask my pastor or a friend to pray for me. Asking someone to pray for you is very different than asking someone to intercede for you. 1st Thessalonians 5:25..."Brethren, pray for us." Was the Apostle Paul asking the church of Thessalonica to mediate for him? Of course not! Paul simply realized the power of prayer. We are supposed to pray for each other (Galatians 6:2, "Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ"). Colossians 1:3 reads, "We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you." Was the Apostle Paul being arrogant? Was Paul claiming to be an intercessor? I mean, couldn't the people pray for themselves? There is nothing wrong with asking others to pray for us. Just because a loved one graduates on into glory doesn't mean that they can't pray for us.
I sincerely believe that the "great cloud of witnesses" in heaven (Hebrews 12:1) are able to watch the events taking place upon the earth to a limited degree. Please read the following verse carefully, "Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 18:10). Wow! Yes, there are guardian angels assigned to each believer. The angels are continually watching the face of the Father for his next command. You had better be careful how you treat a born again Christian because their guardian angel is just waiting for God's next command. This means that we are being monitored from heaven 24/7. Scary thought huh? In light of this Biblical truth, I do believe that our loved ones (who would want to inquire about us) are allowed certain desired information.
In addition, take a look at Luke 15:10..."Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth." In the presence of the angels? If the angels aren't the ones rejoicing, then who is? It can only be the saints! The context of Luke 15:10 implies clearly that the believers in heaven are aware to a certain extent of the events upon the earth.

What is a Mediator?
Definition of Mediate: To act between parties with a view to reconciling differences. To settle a dispute.

This is what is so damnable about the Roman Catholic's obsession with Mary, they expect Mary to reconcile them with God. The ONLY true path to peace with God is in Christ Jesus, "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Romans 5:1). Catholics look to Mother Mary to forgive their sins. Roman Catholics believe that a miracle happened in Fatima, Portugal (1917). They believe that the Blessed Virgin appeared in several apparitions to three young children. The Blessed Virgin promised the following...


What blasphemy!


Folks, Mary cannot do ANYTHING to help save you! Devotion to Mary's Immaculate Heart? Roman Catholics are taught to pray to different saints to unleash certain powers and blessings. Such blasphemous teachings are nothing less than Satanic. As Christians we may ask someone to pray for us, or perhaps we may say a prayer for them...but we DON'T pray TO each other. And that's the key difference. Catholics pray "TO" the departed saints (such as Saint Anthony). I distinctly remember visiting a Hispanic Catholic man in Chicago. He had a small table behind his front door. He had several glasses on the table filled with water to varying levels. He also had a statue of Saint Anthony on the table. There was a burning candle in the midst. Each glass of water had a penny at the bottom. A string came from the display on the table and ran across the floor behind the front door. After being intrigued by his strange display, I asked him what was the purpose of such a display. The man said that he was trying to keep evil spirits from entering his home.
Right down the street, there was a Catholic store for priests and Catholics. I went into the store to look at what they were selling. Inside were hundreds of charms, potions, spells, candles, and just about everything superstitious you could want to buy. As I learned more about Roman Catholicism, I found at that Catholics are very superstitious, especially in poorer countries. They burn their candles, perform their rituals, and eat feasts in honor of various saints. Surely, it wouldn't be wrong to sponsor a dinner in appreciation for a loved one, but to idolize the saints is a wicked sin!!! Catholics commit idolatry by praising and worshipping dead saints. Only Jesus is to be worshipped and praised, no one else. Roman Catholics look to the saints to make their life better, as if the Apostle Peter could do anything in heaven to help them. Folks, Jesus can hear the prayers of millions of Christians all at one time, he doesn't need any help receiving prayers.
And that's really the big question...why would Catholics pray to anyone other than God Himself? Think about that for a moment? Why? I mean, did God ask anyone to pray to Mary? No, He didn't! So why do Catholics and Lutherans show such fondness to a sinful woman? Mary was a sinner just like anyone else (Romans 3:10;23). The Bible proclaims that ALL have sinned (Romans 3:10). Yet, the Catholic Church blatantly rebels against the truth by teaching their damnable lies that Mary never sinned. I triple-dog dare you to show me that anywhere from the Word of God! You CANNOT! The Catholic religion is NOT infallible! Catholics are confused. They practice false worship.
In conclusion, Mary is NO mediator or intercessor...she is just a woman. No dead saint or living Pope can mediate for you. Though Catholics claim they are only honoring the dead saints and Mary, the truth of the matter is that they are obsessed with wicked idol worship. This is why the 2nd of the Ten Commandments is missing in their Catechism books. No saint or priest can reconcile your sinful heart to God. The ONLY way to obtain the righteousness of God is in Jesus Christ (2nd Corinthians 5:17). There is only ONE MEDIATOR...Jesus Christ!


Wasn't Timothy a disciple of Paul?

 
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One Mediator!


by David J. Stewart


Oh, another mile-long post that is supposed to disprove Catholicism

Well, many Catholics have been born again yet do not leave the CC.. some do, but that's because they are ignorant of what they are doing. Being born-again does not guarantee infallibility in life choices (Understatement).

:)
 
OK, I already know the protestants will say that the Cahtolic Church is not the original or if it once was, it is not now because the Father of Protestantism came along (Luther) and made it Protestant and so we can now ditch the Catholic Church entirely if we haven't already.. I get that -- so please don't waste your time repeating it for what will be, for me, the 1000th time.

The point of this thread can only be fully understood by CATHOLICS. That is objective truth and I will not argue it.

But to you Catholics (yes, I know, you are few in number here.. and everywhere else): Sadly, maybe even you have never even experienced (in a profound way) the Real Presence of Christ found in His one Church, the Catholic Church. Well, I have and I am sure others here have as well. But something is going very wrong in the Church, and frankly, it seems to have happened along the XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX the US office of the presidency 2020. Mod Edited to avoid this thread being a bait thread in Zone 1 Religion and Ethics Forum. White 6.

I dunno.. In any case, I will not digress further.

The thing is, I have noticed that this Presence is not so present anymore in the Church. I cannot even detect it in some Churches I have been to. I once travelled a lot and have been to many Churches. Usually, I would feel this Presence as soon as I stepped through the door :) But it is not so strong anymore and I am wondering if Jesus is almost totally leaving His Church?

Vatican II was the beginning of this.. words fail.. this terrible situation..

But years have passed since then.. and in those years things have gotten worse and worse and worse with every passing year.

As always, I am in the process of learning about all this "new" stuff (though the Word says there is nothing new under the sun) RE the Church and related matters. So I know I will have more to say about all this later that may not jibe with what I've said just a few days b4.. But right now.. it is very interesting where I am right now..

Right now it seems Jesus is abandoning His Church.. not entirely because there are still devout Catholics and Jesus promised His Church would not fail.. There will always be Catholicism.. sorry about that, protesters..

But the Church is not what it once was. I say that some priests only serve the Church or appear to do so bc it benefits them... Once it takes any kind of sacrifice.. they are gone.. that's just my opinion. I don't know all priests.. But the ones I know.. OMG.. they seem to only be concerned with their own worldly comfort.. the flock can go to Hell.. just MY perceptions.. and I have massive experiences to draw on that lead me to saying this. . decades of being "in the Church"

Again the true Church is the SSPX Catholic Church-- the one that, through the work of Marcel Lefebvre (almost said Saint Lefebvre.. ) kept the Mass of All Times which was canonized (meaning that that decision, made ex cathedra, CANNOT ever be un-done). It was canonized by Pope SAINT Pius V at the Council of Trent in the 16th century..

(SSPX is: The Society of St Pius X)

According to you Jesus has abandoned the Catholic Church??? Rubbish. Who the hell do you think you are?
 
The thing is, I have noticed that this Presence is not so present anymore in the Church. I cannot even detect it in some Churches I have been to.

- because you have politicized the 1st century events and abandoned the message of liberation theology, self determination those that were crucified died for.

rather than the religion of antiquity, the c-bible is a book of forgeries and fallacies to disguise its false religion of servitude and monarchical rule.
 
The Real Presence of Christ is the most amazing "thing" on Earth

Even few Catholics ever availed themselves of His Presence. Now it is probably being withdrawn from us.

The world is too crazy for Jesus..

This withdrawal of His Presnece means we are in the Last DAys.

I am not sure what all that entails.. not into end times stuff, to speak of. But I've read the books of Daniel and Revelation and.. well, I've read the entire Bible..

Things are different in 2022 than ever before in history. THAT I know.. or strongly suspect anyway.. I cannot objectively KNOW such when.. I would have had to have lived in all previous time periods .. can't claim that.. but I do know that technology has gotten to the point where man thinks he can do all and has no need of God anmore.. the arrogant so and sos
 
OK, I already know the protestants will say that the Cahtolic Church is not the original
I'm not sure what protestant would say that, but go on.
or if it once was, it is not now because the Father of Protestantism came along (Luther) and made it Protestant and so we can now ditch the Catholic Church entirely if we haven't already.. I get that -- so please don't waste your time repeating it for what will be, for me, the 1000th time.
Luther was a conflicted man from what I know. He had valid points, but his splitting and pitting the mass populace against the Catholic church with use of the printing press was not righteous.
But to you Catholics (yes, I know, you are few in number here.. and everywhere else)
I found this claim odd... Catholicism certainly has its issues, but it is the worldwide stronghold of Christianity, and never hasn't been.
The thing is, I have noticed that this Presence is not so present anymore in the Church. I cannot even detect it in some Churches I have been to. I once travelled a lot and have been to many Churches. Usually, I would feel this Presence as soon as I stepped through the door :) But it is not so strong anymore and I am wondering if Jesus is almost totally leaving His Church?
Wow.. so as a believer in Christ, I can count on you to tell me if He supports a church based on how you feel?

Um... excuse me french.. but who the F are you?
 
I'm not sure what protestant would say that, but go on.

Luther was a conflicted man from what I know. He had valid points, but his splitting and pitting the mass populace against the Catholic church with use of the printing press was not righteous.

I found this claim odd... Catholicism certainly has its issues, but it is the worldwide stronghold of Christianity, and never hasn't been.

Wow.. so as a believer in Christ, I can count on you to tell me if He supports a church based on how you feel?

Um... excuse me french.. but who the F are you?

He's introduced Cyrus Scofield's heresy into his catholicism.
 
The Presence seems stronger in Churches in some states as opposed to other states

Strangely, one blue state I used to live in seemed to have some of the best Churches.. (not that I checked all of them but this one in particular comes to mind) but it is not bc it was in a blue state . In fact, it was probably in SPITE of that.. Catholics have to fight harder against the pro abortion freaks in blue states
 
The Presence seems stronger in Churches in some states as opposed to other states

Strangely, one blue state I used to live in seemed to have some of the best Churches.. (not that I checked all of them but this one in particular comes to mind) but it is not bc it was in a blue state . In fact, it was probably in SPITE of that.. Catholics have to fight harder against the pro abortion freaks in blue states
WTF is "the presence" that you speak of.

God is present when his body is present, regardless of how you feel.
 
The Presence seems stronger in Churches in some states as opposed to other states

Strangely, one blue state I used to live in seemed to have some of the best Churches.. (not that I checked all of them but this one in particular comes to mind) but it is not bc it was in a blue state . In fact, it was probably in SPITE of that.. Catholics have to fight harder against the pro abortion freaks in blue states

You're a crackpot.
 
The Real Presence of Christ is the most amazing "thing" on Earth

Even few Catholics ever availed themselves of His Presence. Now it is probably being withdrawn from us.

The world is too crazy for Jesus..

This withdrawal of His Presnece means we are in the Last DAys.

I am not sure what all that entails.. not into end times stuff, to speak of. But I've read the books of Daniel and Revelation and.. well, I've read the entire Bible..

Things are different in 2022 than ever before in history. THAT I know.. or strongly suspect anyway.. I cannot objectively KNOW such when.. I would have had to have lived in all previous time periods .. can't claim that.. but I do know that technology has gotten to the point where man thinks he can do all and has no need of God anmore.. the arrogant so and sos

If you are saved Jesus is in you and that does not get withdrawn.
 

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