"We are stardust"... Abiogenesis + evolution = God's plan?

[Fort Fun Indiana]

No, he doesn't do anything until he runs it by me first, and this is the first I've heard about any of this.

Ha! Maybe He thought you wouldn't get it. Like with Moses.

 

[BreezeWood]

organic presence is not native to planet Earth but evolved through the atmosphere of the universe whether you can accept the fact or not - and may have a distinct origin that someday may be fully understood - and is the avenue evolution must follow to understand its relevancy despite the ignorant tactics of the spiritually dead - ff.

It's not a fact. It is the unevidenced and apparently useless claim of a guy on a message board.

it most certainly is a fact, biology is not native to planet Earth and evolves where conditions are conducive for its development.

the denier, ff denies evolution or will provide their evidence for the origin of physiology derived from planet Earth and that of the individual spiritual content for each being that is unique as proof for its origin.

not one blade of grass from 200 million years ago to the present day and for all eternity will ever be or has ever been identical to another.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

it most certainly is a fact

Says you.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Abiogenesis is just a foregone conclusion. Once there was no life, then there was life. The theory of evolution makes no deference to abiogenesis and would remain completely untouched and u changed, if God or aliens created the earliest common ancestor of all species.

Somewhat disagree. First, while correct that "abiogenesis" is not "actually a basic tenet of the THEORY OF EVOLUTION..", that's not due to its being a "foregone conclusion." The term "foregone conclusion" itself has two very distinct and opposed meanings, just adding confusion in almost any case. "The theory of evolution makes no deference to abiogenesis" -- correct and 'nuff said.

However, I feel the opposite is actually the case. I wouldn't, but evolution, being just a theory after all, could reasonably be described as, not "the", but certainly a "basic tenet" of abiogenesis. Evolution + deductive reasoning = likely abiogenesis. Suggesting "God or aliens" as though equally valid alternatives cedes the entire argument to silliness, imo. The Eater Bunny created everything! No really. He did! I swear. My uncle told me so! No, there's this thing called probability that really does bear upon reality.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

First, while correct that "abiogenesis" is not "actually a basic tenet of the THEORY OF EVOLUTION..", that's not due to its being a "foregone conclusion

I am not saying it is. These are two distinct ideas that do not depend on one another.

Abiogenesis is a foregone conclusion. It's just the name given to the process of the fact that is formation of life . Once there was no life, then there was. There is no rational debate over the fact of abiogenesis, just as there is no rational debate over volcano formation or star formation being facts. Once there was no volcano, then there was. "Volcano formation" is just the name given to the series of events connecting these two state of affairs.

Same for abuogenesis.

 

[Grumblenuts]

What's "abuogenesis"?

I agree that (maybe) abiogenesis should be just a process description, but even Oxford Languages disagrees.

noun

1. the original evolution of life or living organisms from inorganic or inanimate substances.

Notice how "evolution" is clearly a given or precedent, not an option?

It's required, whereas "God" and "aliens" are clearly not.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

What's "abuogenesis"?

A special process where your thumb hits the wrong key while typing. Jesus says no, but I saw it happen.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

What's wrong with the idea of a self-aware Universe?

Upon further consideration....

How could a universe of this size be "self aware"? Our consciousness works because our brains are small, compared to the speed limit of neurotransmission.

Not so for the universe. How could something ponder something that is 90 billion light years away? The round trip for the transmission of information would take 180 billion years in a universe that is NOT expanding.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Upon further consideration....

How could a universe of this size be "self aware"? Our consciousness works because our brains are small, compared to the speed limit of neurotransmission.

Not so for the universe. How could something ponder something that is 90 billion light years away? The round trip for the transmission of information would take 180 billion years in a universe that is NOT expanding.

If you truly understood what I've been posting you'd realize that the Quantum entanglement is a function of the Simulation and Time and distance are fictions to help humans cope

We live in infinity, so Size is irrelevant; and like time, it's a construct of limited human awareness.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

If you truly understood what I've been posting you'd realize that the Quantum entanglement is a function of the Simulation and Time and distance are fictions to help humans cope

We live in infinity, so Size is irrelevant; and like time, it's a construct of limited human awareness.

From what I have read, quantum entanglement CANNOT be used for faster than light communication.

And I'm afraid size DOES matter, when there is a speed limit.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

From what I have read, quantum entanglement CANNOT be used for faster than light communication.

And I'm afraid size DOES matter, when there is a speed limit.

Yet quantum entanglement absolutely proves that information travels faster than the speed of light

To a photon traveling at the speed of light, time does not exist

 

[Clyde 154]

Time? Time is but an illusion, its a construct that does not actually exist in this realm of physical reality......there is only "NOW". Each day brings its own reality into an existence that is quantifiable/measurable. Look to the Holy Scriptures. There is a poem attempting to bring man's understanding of time into existence.......Eccl. 3:15

One' of the most intelligent men in the recorded history of the Holy Scriptures (Solomon)) presents his personal take on the concept of time vs. man. The poem states, there is a time for everything........a time to be born, a time to die, a time plant, a time to harvest, a time for war, a time for peace....etc., What Solomon is pointing to is the fact that time is a matter of perspective, dealing with the life of each and every person that has ever been born into this realm of reality........each person has to deal with and make decisions based upon these basic concepts of physical time.........in the end he states all things physical are limited to a finite/limited existence........all things physical are created with the known fact they will expire when all energy faces exhaustion.

We do not live in a perpetual self generating reality.........this fact can be seen across the limits of space when suns/stars die from exhaustion of energy. But something that man has never viewed in the confines of this limited reality........the actual birth of a NEW STAR. Thus, The Theories (ideas) man projects of time and space. If you can't see it, fell it, measure it..........does it really exist? If time really existed.......new stars could be seen popping into existence like popcorn on a griddle......because of the supposed SPEED LIMIT placed upon reality by man......the theorized speed limit of light. What is seen today, if there is such a speed limit is the light of these supposed new stars that are being born/created millions, billions or trillions of years ago. There is not one new born star observed in the heavens........not one in all of recorded history. Man can leave a witness to things that have already taken place (History)......but no man or even God can look into an existence that has not yet possible to be viewed.....i.e, the future. Because the future is an illusional concept.

The Scriptures explain just how God manipulates and places His plans into action. He plans something, an event.........He then waits until He decides to place His plan into action (some might call it the future)...........but His implemented plans are always IN THE PRESENT. (Isaiah 46:9-11) Only God has the capacity for ETERNITY. Time means nothing to God......because it is a concept created by man's limited perspective. What God plans, God will accomplish......no one can stop the creator from managing the created.

What do we learn from Solomon's poem? This reality is beautiful when you look at it in the right perspective........no one but God has the ability to view everything that exists all at once, man will never have this point of view. Example: a single cell might be part of the physical reality called a human body.........but that single cell will never have the proper view to grasp the entire reality that confines and limits its purpose. The book of James puts everything into the proper perspective. This is based upon a passage spoken by Jesus Christ. "And which one of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life?" -- Matthew 6:27

"Come now, you who say, Today or Tomorrow we will go into such and such a town and spend a year there and make a profit........yet you do not know what tomorrow will bring. What is your life? For you are a mist that appears for a little time and then vanishes. Instead you ought to say, If the Lord wills, we will do this or that. As it is, you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil. So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him, it is sin." -- James 4:13-17

 

[fncceo]

Time is but an illusion

And lunch time doubley so”.

- Douglas Adam’s, “Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy”

 

[ding]

Upon further consideration....

How could a universe of this size be "self aware"?

It's not hard if you think of the universe as a single organism with many parts all of which played a part in the universe becoming self aware but not all parts are self aware.

 

[ding]

Could it be that abiogenesis and evolution are both fact and are part of God's design?

I understand how and why people insist on the young age of the Earth (using lineage in Abrahamic religious text). But maybe you just read it a bit wrong? Maybe, it is incomplete information? A thousand years is as a day to God, no? Why not a billion years?

God created man from dust, no? Stardust, it seems. Literal dust. From stars exploding.

Perhaps God chose two "almost ready" early hominids to be the first humans, Adam and Eve. He could have just created other humans as He liked, for them to breed with, I imagine. Or perhaps Adam and Eve were just Moses's stunted interpretation of being shown Y-chromosome Adam and Mitochondrial Eve by God in a vision. Perhaps God showed him a lot of truth, but he could not recall every detail or absorb and understand it all.

I could continue, but that's what threads are for

I don't see the conflict. Surely every monotheist thinks God is capable of both abiogenesis and evolution. No?

Biological evolution is totally consistent with monotheistic beliefs. Polytheistic beliefs not so much.

 

[Clyde 154]

It's not hard if you think of the universe as a single organism with many parts all of which played a part in the universe becoming self aware but not all parts are self aware.

The Holy Scriptures state the obvious............we all live and have our existence within God. The universe is"of" God, God is not of the universe.......the entirety of reality exists within God. Thus the reason that man cannot comprehend the entirety that is God the Creator of reality. "For what man knoweth the things of man, save the spirit of man which is in him? Even so, the things of God knoweth no man, but the spirit of God." -- 1 Cor.2:11

We have our existence within the God of the universe. "For in Him (God), we live and have our being..............." Men are born with an innate sense of seeking God, they seek and do not find because they look in the wrong place. God does not need anything from man.....man needs God in order to make righteous judgments/decisions to guide his steps (Acts 17:25-28) Like the single cell performing its assigned duties within man that cannot grasp all that is man.............we cannot grasp all that is God. All we know is what God has allowed us to know about His nature.....recorded by the inspiration of Gods Holy Spirit.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: THAT THE MAN OF GOD MAY BE PERFECT (in Koine Greek telesos.......the be wholde or complete), THROUGHLY FURNISHED UNTO ALL GOOD WORKS." -- 2 Tim. 3:16-17. Of course the scripture is not declaring that any man other than Jesus Christ can live a perfect life......it states God has completely given to us ALL THAT IS REQUIRED......the perfect, to make the man of God complete in understanding what God has allowed us to understand. The decision to find peace for this life......is up to each individual as we have all that is required to live content, peaceful and loving examples of human life, perhaps leaving this world a better place than when we were thrust into it . We are created in Love, we should live with love in our heart and most importantly we should die our appointed death with the peace of God's love in having His only Son pay for our sins.

If you want to communicate with God..........read the inspired words of the Spirit God and allow those words to live within your spirit (mind of man). Anything else is just an opinion based not upon the thoughts of God but upon the thoughts of man. And we all know that man never makes bad decisions......

 

[ding]

we all live and have our existence within God. The universe is"of" God, God is not of the universe.......the entirety of reality exists within God.

Very well said. God provides reality to every part at all times.

 

[BreezeWood]

...we all live and have our existence within God.

God provides reality to every part at all times.

the spirit is inviolable - the spirit is in the everlasting, neither the everlasting nor the heavens are in the spirit.

Biological evolution is totally consistent with monotheistic beliefs. Polytheistic beliefs not so much.

really -

monotheistic would all be the same, cookie cutter mentality. polytheism w/ random authorities provides the diversity and other potentials a single source would be incapable to create.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Yet quantum entanglement absolutely proves that information travels faster than the speed of light

No, sorry. Information cannot travel faster than the speed of light. From everything I have read about it, anyway.

The photon has not gained or lost any information, in travel. Those that observe it receive information. And to them, the photon does take time to travel at the universe's speed limit.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

No, sorry. Information cannot travel faster than the speed of light. From everything I have read about it, anyway.

The photon has not gained or lost any information, in travel. Those that observe it receive information. And to them, the photon does take time to travel at the universe's speed limit.

Need to read more

Apparently, Quantum entanglement information travelled 100MM light years in an instant

What is quantum entanglement? A physicist explains Einstein’s ‘spooky action at a distance’