Can there be a separation between Mosque and State?

[Book of Jeremiah]

there can be no separation of church and state in islamic countries

Right because Islam depends on the union to get away with stoning women for adultery, cutting off hands and feet for stealing, burning alive homosexuals, etc. Otherwise they have to do their honor killings, executions, under the radar as they are doing right now in Canada.

 

[ima]

Islam is the stain around the bowl.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Depends on various things, but Islam is a way of life and it depends what kind of legislation. Muslims don't want a secular society. At least is don't for them. It doesn't work over there and I think it's wrong. But it works here. Due to vast differences and history. Yes I can practice my religion here a hundred percent. But many factors are to be considered. Not just practice of faith.

So basically Islam is more than a religion it is a way of life and even political in many instances.

Depends what you mean by political, it's inspiring. I think the word you're looking for is social.

Actually the word he is looking for is ------> religous - politico CANCER - THAT is what Islam is. To be clear. - Jeremiah

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Jesus loves you, Bik. I'm still praying for you too. - Jeremiah

 

[ima]

Jesus loves you, Bik. I'm still praying for you too. - Jeremiah

Jesus is dead.

 

[there4eyeM]

I do not agree that religion is separate from state in 'most' western countries. Many have 'Christian Democrat' or 'Christian Socialist' parties. That isn't separation. Even in France, which is very 'laic', the state pays for monuments like Notre Dame de Paris, when the Roman Church still holds mass in it. No other religion holds services there. What's that?
I don't see that a society that is truly Islamic could be separate from religion in its government. That religion requires too much of a mixture of its view of morality with what is demanded as the social norm.
The concept of separation is new in human history, very interesting and one of the best attributes of American democracy (oops, sorry, 'Republic'; don't want to get into trouble with any extremists).

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Seriously... talk about a bik with a short fuse, eh? lol.....

Seriously without the unity of Mosque and State, Islam would become a dinosaur overnight. No one WANTS to live under Sharia law but neither will they say this because it could get them killed.

It is the religious leaders who are calling the shots inside Iran. I fully expect Achminijad to be removed once they install the new Syrian leader ( who has no use for Iran and prefers the Turks ) and give Hizbollah their walking papers.. It is possible the religious leaders will get kicked to the curb as well if they want to spin it they can always say they were liberating the Iranian youth ( 70% under age 35 I believe ) and its part of the "arab spring cleaning"...

So you are saying without Islamic law being legislated nobody would want Sharia?

You'd have your usual power hungry imams, mullahs in favor of Sharia, muslim men who'd gain from it but it would be a hard life for Muslim women, non muslims, Jews, Christians, life would be a literal hell under sharia law. We have Sharia law happening in our own courtrooms here in America, you know. They had to make a new law called American Law for American Courtrooms to counteract it. CAIR ( council of american islamic relations ) are fighting it full force right now. - Jeremiah

The Calphate back in ancient history proved to be the opposite. But that was during those time's standards. Sharia means the 'pathway to be followed', basically divine law almost like Mosiac law. But in a modern world it would be applied in the modern perspective. But an actually society doesn't exist today. It's differently interpreted in different Muslim countries.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

there can be no separation of church and state in islamic countries

Right because Islam depends on the union to get away with stoning women for adultery, cutting off hands and feet for stealing, burning alive homosexuals, etc. Otherwise they have to do their honor killings, executions, under the radar as they are doing right now in Canada.

You're not entirely accurate, although Christians are supposed to follow Mosaic Law which is the same exact thing. Sharia Law is largely derived from Mosaic Law. But times thousands of years ago were different. Today it would be applied differently if it actually was. But it is God's Law. If you believe that God told Moses to follow Mosaic Law then I don't get why you are so objected to it. It seems you don't want to follow God.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

I do not agree that religion is separate from state in 'most' western countries. Many have 'Christian Democrat' or 'Christian Socialist' parties. That isn't separation. Even in France, which is very 'laic', the state pays for monuments like Notre Dame de Paris, when the Roman Church still holds mass in it. No other religion holds services there. What's that?
I don't see that a society that is truly Islamic could be separate from religion in its government. That religion requires too much of a mixture of its view of morality with what is demanded as the social norm.
The concept of separation is new in human history, very interesting and one of the best attributes of American democracy (oops, sorry, 'Republic'; don't want to get into trouble with any extremists).

Good points....

 

[Avatar4321]

Most predominantly Christian countries have a separation between Church and state, do you think Muslim countries will get to the point where there is a separation between Mosque and state? do they want to? thoughts?

Im going to disagree. There are a number of Christian countries who have an established State Church. Heck, Great Britain is one of them.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

there can be no separation of church and state in islamic countries

Right because Islam depends on the union to get away with stoning women for adultery, cutting off hands and feet for stealing, burning alive homosexuals, etc. Otherwise they have to do their honor killings, executions, under the radar as they are doing right now in Canada.

You're not entirely accurate, although Christians are supposed to follow Mosaic Law which is the same exact thing. Sharia Law is largely derived from Mosaic Law. But times thousands of years ago were different. Today it would be applied differently if it actually was. But it is God's Law. If you believe that God told Moses to follow Mosaic Law then I don't get why you are so objected to it. It seems you don't want to follow God.

No. I'm entirely accurate. It's you who has it wrong. You see those are the standard punishments under sharia law no matter what nation you happen to be in. Furthermore, the followers of Islam continue to practice these very same teachings today whereas Christians follow new Testament teaching and not Mosaic law given at a certain time for a certain people which is clearly undertstood as not for today - it is historical where as your own religion has never de -activated from mode of jihad ( somewhere upon the earth ) that will not desist until the world is dominated by Islam.

So whereas we do follow God and the One True God , - mind you - it is us who wonder why you and yours do not want to follow God and prefer to follow the pre islamic rituals god / idolatry worship as practiced even prior to 570 a.d. ( Muhammads birth ) and continuing along to the very day practicing same rituals of idolaters of biblical times. Even praying toward the east as the Holy bible says idolaters pray in that direction. I know exactly what I am speaking of perhaps it is you, Bik, who need to listen to what I'm saying here.

-Jeremiah

 

[Flanders]

do you think Muslim countries will get to the point where there is a separation between Mosque and state?

To High_Gravity: NO.

Islam is as much political movement as it is religion; hence a theocracy. From the Muslim perspective separating the two is impossible.

Incidentally, socialism/communism is also a theocracy that must be legally defined as a religion, while Islam must be legally defined as a political movement. In that way, the First Amendment protects Americans from both —— Socialists are denied tax dollars needed to support the faithful in the welfare state, while Muslims are denied First Amendment protection for their political mvement.

Lighten up, Bik. He merely asked a question. No reason to bite his head off.

Many Muslim nations are under Sharia law and I expect that will increase in the future. As such they would be called a theocracy.

The idea of separation of church and state was to keep the Government out of church business, not the other way around. Thanks. - Jeremiah

Seriously... talk about a bik with a short fuse, eh? lol.....

Seriously without the unity of Mosque and State, Islam would become a dinosaur overnight. No one WANTS to live under Sharia law but neither will they say this because it could get them killed.

It is the religious leaders who are calling the shots inside Iran. I fully expect Achminijad to be removed once they install the new Syrian leader ( who has no use for Iran and prefers the Turks ) and give Hizbollah their walking papers.. It is possible the religious leaders will get kicked to the curb as well if they want to spin it they can always say they were liberating the Iranian youth ( 70% under age 35 I believe ) and its part of the "arab spring cleaning"...

You'd have your usual power hungry imams, mullahs in favor of Sharia, muslim men who'd gain from it but it would be a hard life for Muslim women, non muslims, Jews, Christians, life would be a literal hell under sharia law. We have Sharia law happening in our own courtrooms here in America, you know. They had to make a new law called American Law for American Courtrooms to counteract it. CAIR ( council of american islamic relations ) are fighting it full force right now. - Jeremiah

Right because Islam depends on the union to get away with stoning women for adultery, cutting off hands and feet for stealing, burning alive homosexuals, etc. Otherwise they have to do their honor killings, executions, under the radar as they are doing right now in Canada.

Actually the word he is looking for is ------> religous - politico CANCER - THAT is what Islam is. To be clear. - Jeremiah

No. I'm entirely accurate. It's you who has it wrong. You see those are the standard punishments under sharia law no matter what nation you happen to be in. Furthermore, the followers of Islam continue to practice these very same teachings today whereas Christians follow new Testament teaching and not Mosaic law given at a certain time for a certain people which is clearly undertstood as not for today - it is historical where as your own religion has never de -activated from mode of jihad ( somewhere upon the earth ) that will not desist until the world is dominated by Islam.

So whereas we do follow God and the One True God , - mind you - it is us who wonder why you and yours do not want to follow God and prefer to follow the pre islamic rituals god / idolatry worship as practiced even prior to 570 a.d. ( Muhammads birth ) and continuing along to the very day practicing same rituals of idolaters of biblical times. Even praying toward the east as the Holy bible says idolaters pray in that direction. I know exactly what I am speaking of perhaps it is you, Bik, who need to listen to what I'm saying here. -Jeremiah

To Jeremiah: Keep going. You’re hitting on all cylinders today.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Just got a tune up. Hope all is well, Flanders.

-Jeremiah

 

[boedicca]

No. Until Islam goes through a Reformation, there can be no such separation.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Right because Islam depends on the union to get away with stoning women for adultery, cutting off hands and feet for stealing, burning alive homosexuals, etc. Otherwise they have to do their honor killings, executions, under the radar as they are doing right now in Canada.

You're not entirely accurate, although Christians are supposed to follow Mosaic Law which is the same exact thing. Sharia Law is largely derived from Mosaic Law. But times thousands of years ago were different. Today it would be applied differently if it actually was. But it is God's Law. If you believe that God told Moses to follow Mosaic Law then I don't get why you are so objected to it. It seems you don't want to follow God.

No. I'm entirely accurate. It's you who has it wrong. You see those are the standard punishments under sharia law no matter what nation you happen to be in. Furthermore, the followers of Islam continue to practice these very same teachings today whereas Christians follow new Testament teaching and not Mosaic law given at a certain time for a certain people which is clearly undertstood as not for today - it is historical where as your own religion has never de -activated from mode of jihad ( somewhere upon the earth ) that will not desist until the world is dominated by Islam.

So whereas we do follow God and the One True God , - mind you - it is us who wonder why you and yours do not want to follow God and prefer to follow the pre islamic rituals god / idolatry worship as practiced even prior to 570 a.d. ( Muhammads birth ) and continuing along to the very day practicing same rituals of idolaters of biblical times. Even praying toward the east as the Holy bible says idolaters pray in that direction. I know exactly what I am speaking of perhaps it is you, Bik, who need to listen to what I'm saying here.

-Jeremiah

No it isn't. And you're the reason Christianity is most commonly attacked here in the US. What you say isn't a light unto all of us. You need to keep your personal feelings just a little bit towards yourself. And you can claim to follow the New Testament all you want which still has very similar content and Jesus himself was appointed to make some judgements on punishments.

And show us where the Holy Bible says so, but Muslims pray towards the Kaaba and they can be either facing West, North, South or East depending where they are in the globe.

 

[ima]

We have no separation in the US, why should we expect others to?

 

[Sunshine]

Even the supposedly moderate Muslim countries like Turkey have Islamic law as well, I was just wondering if this could change later down the line, I didn't start this thread to insult Muslims.

It seems like it is changing but for the worse, eventually it will always come back to Islam. Because one reason, the Arabs always have corruption and capitalist society when their isn't Islam. Islam is anti capitalist and anti corruption.

Its possible to follow Islam without it being legislated though right? we don't have Islamic law here but theres nobody stopping you from living an Islamic life 24/7, thats the part I don't get.

HG, this thread is full of knee jerk reactions. Anytime the topic comes up there are those who are going to jump to the defense of islam, regardless. But, not just islam. Think Tibet. Most people believe that Tibet should be a theocracy 'because the people want it.' Well I'm sure there must be one there who doesn't. In that case someone's rights are violated if it is a theocracy. There are plenty of Christians and Jews in islamic countries and those theocracies are violating their rights. Democracy and freedom are about the rights of all. But you will notice that there are those who only consider the rights of minorities when THEY are part of the minority. The rest of the time it's majority rule. They see muslims as a beleaguered minority who have had bombs bursting on their heads for the full time there has been Christians and therefore they can do no wrong.

I personally think that the middle east is a lost cause when it comes to human rights. We need to help those Jews and Christians who want freedom to get out and leave the place to implode.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

You're not entirely accurate, although Christians are supposed to follow Mosaic Law which is the same exact thing. Sharia Law is largely derived from Mosaic Law. But times thousands of years ago were different. Today it would be applied differently if it actually was. But it is God's Law. If you believe that God told Moses to follow Mosaic Law then I don't get why you are so objected to it. It seems you don't want to follow God.

No. I'm entirely accurate. It's you who has it wrong. You see those are the standard punishments under sharia law no matter what nation you happen to be in. Furthermore, the followers of Islam continue to practice these very same teachings today whereas Christians follow new Testament teaching and not Mosaic law given at a certain time for a certain people which is clearly undertstood as not for today - it is historical where as your own religion has never de -activated from mode of jihad ( somewhere upon the earth ) that will not desist until the world is dominated by Islam.

So whereas we do follow God and the One True God , - mind you - it is us who wonder why you and yours do not want to follow God and prefer to follow the pre islamic rituals god / idolatry worship as practiced even prior to 570 a.d. ( Muhammads birth ) and continuing along to the very day practicing same rituals of idolaters of biblical times. Even praying toward the east as the Holy bible says idolaters pray in that direction. I know exactly what I am speaking of perhaps it is you, Bik, who need to listen to what I'm saying here.

-Jeremiah

No it isn't. And you're the reason Christianity is most commonly attacked here in the US. What you say isn't a light unto all of us. You need to keep your personal feelings just a little bit towards yourself. And you can claim to follow the New Testament all you want which still has very similar content and Jesus himself was appointed to make some judgements on punishments.

And show us where the Holy Bible says so, but Muslims pray towards the Kaaba and they can be either facing West, North, South or East depending where they are in the globe.

You prayed towards Jerusalem according to your own book, Bik. That is until the Hebrews rejected your prophet ( as a prophet ) and chose death over blaspheming G-d of Torah. That was when your prophet switched up directions having you guys pray with your backs towards Jerusalem - which is indicative of your turning your backs on the One True G-d. As to my Christianity - I speak the truth, I speak out against evil when I see it and call a spade a spade. You obviously don't get out much. Welcome to America. This is how we (christians) do it over here. - Jeremiah

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

It seems like it is changing but for the worse, eventually it will always come back to Islam. Because one reason, the Arabs always have corruption and capitalist society when their isn't Islam. Islam is anti capitalist and anti corruption.

Its possible to follow Islam without it being legislated though right? we don't have Islamic law here but theres nobody stopping you from living an Islamic life 24/7, thats the part I don't get.

HG, this thread is full of knee jerk reactions. Anytime the topic comes up there are those who are going to jump to the defense of islam, regardless. But, not just islam. Think Tibet. Most people believe that Tibet should be a theocracy 'because the people want it.' Well I'm sure there must be one there who doesn't. In that case someone's rights are violated if it is a theocracy. There are plenty of Christians and Jews in islamic countries and those theocracies are violating their rights. Democracy and freedom are about the rights of all. But you will notice that there are those who only consider the rights of minorities when THEY are part of the minority. The rest of the time it's majority rule. They see muslims as a beleaguered minority who have had bombs bursting on their heads for the full time there has been Christians and therefore they can do no wrong.

I personally think that the middle east is a lost cause when it comes to human rights. We need to help those Jews and Christians who want freedom to get out and leave the place to implode.

If the Jews and Christians left that is precisely what would happen. It would implode because there would be no salt and light to those who are bound by satan ( following islam) so Christians are not leaving although I believe all the Jews will eventually leave and make Alilyah to Israel ( their homeland ) because bible says they will return there. I feel a great sympathy for those who are born into Islam and are bound by fear from leaving it. To me this seems like a time when Christians should be praying for conversion of Muslims now more than ever. Look at all the Muslims who have died in Syria! Those people are gone forever! There is no hope of winning them to Christ and saving their souls. They died in satans religion of islam and it is too late for them. We need to be praying for these people like never before. Only Jesus can open their eyes and he is indeed visiting many of them in dreams and visions and letting them know their only hope of heaven is to accept him and leave Islam. Jesus loves these people and wants them as part of the Bride of Christ. We are going to have to really press in with prayer to see their deliverance. - Jeremiah

 

[editec]

Most predominantly Christian countries have a separation between Church and state, do you think Muslim countries will get to the point where there is a separation between Mosque and state? do they want to? thoughts?

See?

This is why people need to read some history.

If you do not know why this guy is?

You are wholly unqualified to be involved in this kind of discussion or any discussion about Islam.