Zone1 Another question to ponder.

[BULLDOG]

Incorrect. I’m a Christian today that is telling you that ancient Israelites crafted narratives of events to teach lessons about the covenant, obedience, justice, and the unique relationship between God and Israel.

We both know much of today's Christian community would call you a heretic

 

[BULLDOG]

Every life form that has ever existed has a survival instinct. That’s not evolution. That’s an inherent characteristic of life. Even a single cell organism can sense its surroundings and will move away from what it instinctively perceives as a threat. Because the survival instinct is hardwired into it by existence.

The cumulative effect of NATURAL selection is the complexification of life. There is nothing random about evolution. Whoever told you evolution is random is a moron. Evolution occurs for logical reasons. There is nothing random about natural selection. You seem to be confusing chaotic with random. Two different things.

The cumulative effect of NATURAL selection is overwhelmingly towards greater complexity. Intelligence was predestined because intelligence is a functional advantage.

Any organism that doesn't move away from a threat is probably already dead, and can't pass on the DNA that contains that characteristic to their offspring.

 

[ding]

Ok. I give up. You think existence, the universe, etc. are capable of actually making independent conscious choices. Obviously, I'm not going to change your mind, so as always you are free to believe what you choose, no matter how misguided that might be. Just one more question, though. With so many (entities?) making so many active choices, doesn't that horn in on the authority of an omnipotent god? Of course, you'll probably say god has to approve those choices. If approval is required, are they really capable of making their own choices?

I think the physical world is made up of mind stuff. World renowned physicists were the first to consider this. It’s not a far fetched idea.

I do not believe it the way you are saying it. The universe is the way it is because of the constant presence of mind. What you are describing is more of a polytheistic approach.

 

[ding]

We both know much of today's Christian community would call you a heretic

No. I don’t know that. I believe the literal reading of the allegorical passages of Genesis is a relatively new phenomenon. It’s really more of an evangelical or LDS or JW thing.

What I do know is that the militant atheists on this board are violently opposed to it because it is ruining their gaslighting fun.

 

[ding]

Any organism that doesn't move away from a threat is probably already dead, and can't pass on the DNA that contains that characteristic to their offspring.

Self preservation is universal among all living organisms. There is no single gene responsible for it. It is the process of an organism preventing itself from being harmed or killed and is considered a basic instinct in all organisms. The question is why? For what purpose?

 

[BULLDOG]

I think the physical world is made up of mind stuff. World renowned physicists were the first to consider this. It’s not a far fetched idea.

I do not believe it the way you are saying it. The universe is the way it is because of the constant presence of mind. What you are describing is more of a polytheistic approach.

What else can it be with so many choices being made in so many different places?

 

[BULLDOG]

No. I don’t know that. I believe the literal reading of the allegorical passages of Genesis is a relatively new phenomenon. It’s really more of an evangelical or LDS or JW thing.

What I do know is that the militant atheists on this board are violently opposed to it because it is ruining their gaslighting fun.

Again, you can believe what you choose, regardless of it's relation to reality.

 

[ding]

With so many (entities?) making so many active choices, doesn't that horn in on the authority of an omnipotent god? Of course, you'll probably say god has to approve those choices. If approval is required, are they really capable of making their own choices?

Clearly you don’t understand the difference between the monotheist worldview and polytheist worldview. Monotheist believe God created existence and for the most part, lets it be. Polytheists believe the universe has always existed and gods control all aspects of it including the affairs of men.

The question of God’s approval is a complex and lengthy discussion and is irrelevant to the discussion of whether he exists or not. What is relevant however is how his creation responds or compensates for our choices. All of which can be explained by the extant attributes of reality which his creation was imbued with because God is reality. Ergo the universe is as it is because of the constant presence of mind. The physical world is made up of mind stuff. Everything is information.

 

[BULLDOG]

Self preservation is universal among all living organisms. There is no single gene responsible for it. It is the process of an organism preventing itself from being harmed or killed and is considered a basic instinct in all organisms. The question is why? For what purpose?

Genes are responsible for much, if not most of our behavior. Do you think the urge to procreate is determined by our genes, or do we have to wait on nature to put those thoughts in our heads?

 

[ding]

Again, you can believe what you choose, regardless of its relation to reality.

I just explained to you that God is reality. God is existence. Existence has always existed. God provides reality to all parts of his creation at all times.

You can believe that all that exists is the material but that will have consequences for how you experience the material world. You are a spiritual being experiencing the material world. Meaning and purpose are all around you. Failure to understand how everything is connected will blind you from what you were supposed to learn from your material existence.

 

[ding]

Genes are responsible for much, if not most of our behavior. Do you think the urge to procreate is determined by our genes, or do we have to wait on nature to put those thoughts in our heads?

I think the characteristics of living things are inherent to life itself. Procreation as well as responding to our environment are hardwired into each living organism due to existence. They are artifacts of life. Life by necessity must be a continuous chain. Procreation and survival instinct are vital components of a continuous chain. There are no genes or combination of genes that will make life not try to survive.

 

[BULLDOG]

Clearly you don’t understand the difference between the monotheist worldview and polytheist worldview. Monotheist believe God created existence and for the most part, lets it be. Polytheists believe the universe has always existed and gods control all aspects of it including the affairs of men.

The question of God’s approval is a complex and lengthy discussion and is irrelevant to the discussion of whether he exists or not. What is relevant however is how his creation responds or compensates for our choices. All of which can be explained by the extant attributes of reality which his creation was imbued with because God is reality. Ergo the universe is as it is because of the constant presence of mind. The physical world is made up of mind stuff. Everything is information.

So you don't think god bothers with the aspects of our lives. You just took a shit on the whole "PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP" thing, didn't you?

 

[Slyhunter]

I just explained to you that God is reality. God is existence. Existence has always existed. God provides reality to all parts of his creation at all times.

You can believe that all that exists is the material but that will have consequences for how you experience the material world. You are a spiritual being experiencing the material world. Meaning and purpose are all around you. Failure to understand how everything is connected will blind you from what you were supposed to learn from your material existence.

Gospel by Ding.

 

[BULLDOG]

I just explained to you that God is reality. God is existence. Existence has always existed. God provides reality to all parts of his creation at all times.

You can believe that all that exists is the material but that will have consequences for how you experience the material world. You are a spiritual being experiencing the material world. Meaning and purpose are all around you. Failure to understand how everything is connected will blind you from what you were supposed to learn from your material existence.

You were very clear that is what you think, but you've proven nothing. If your cliche comments and circular logic was effective I would still be a Christian.

 

[ding]

So you don't think god bothers with the aspects of our lives. You just took a shit on the whole "PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP" thing, didn't you?

Not even close. It’s my relationship with God that turns on all the learning centers of my mind. It’s my relationship with God that gives me peace and joy especially in difficult times. I am becoming the best version of myself and reap those rewards now in all relationships and endeavors.

 

[ding]

What else can it be with so many choices being made in so many different places?

That is literally the beauty of it all. I can’t think of anything which glorifies God’s power more than his finely tuned and self compensating creation.

It isn’t virtuous to be forced to be virtuous. So even though we must choose to be virtuous. The universe is full of lessons that teach justice and virtue.

 

[ding]

Gospel by Ding.

It’s a sight better than criticizing what one does not believe to justify what he does believe without ever testing what he believes.

So if I have to put up with insults because of it…. Life isn’t always fair. I should have to expect to make sacrifices.

 

[ding]

You were very clear that is what you think, but you've proven nothing. If your cliche comments and circular logic was effective I would still be a Christian.

I see it exactly opposite. I’ve been proving what it is and the reasons for those beliefs. You have been arguing what it’s not.

 

[ding]

I would still be a Christian.

I don’t believe you would. I think the only way you will ever change is when you reach rock bottom and are forced to change.

 

[SaxonJackson]

God could have made everyone love Him unconditionally from day one. But He offered us a gift. The gift of free will. He could have done lots of things in different ways. He could have made humans blue with pink hair. But He didn't. He did things the way He did things and questioning His motives is an exercise in futility.

I see the Bible, from start to finish, as a purification process. The Bible likens it to the purification of silver.

Malachi 3:3, "He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; he will purify the Levites and refine them like gold and silver. Then the LORD will have men who will bring offerings in righteousness,"

Psalms 66:10, "For thou, O God, hast proved us: thou hast tried us, as silver is tried."

And the purification goes beyond just the purification of precious metals:

Isaiah 48:10, "Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction."

1 Peter 1:7, "That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:"

Those found lacking faith are the impure dross found floating atop the molten silver. Those who are found with sound and steadfast faith are more precious than gold.