Zone1 Another question to ponder.

[BULLDOG]

I know a gas lighter when I see one. You guys are easy to spot. I can smell your subversion a mile away.

OK if you say so.

 

[ding]

today's Christianity is based on made up bullshit

The Democratic Party ought to make that a plank in their party platform. I'm sure that will please all of the Christians who are Democrats.

 

[BULLDOG]

The Democratic Party ought to make that a plank in their party platform. I'm sure that will please all of the Christians who are Democrats.

I thought you were gonna quit a while ago.

 

[ding]

I thought you were gonna quit a while ago.

Quit what?

 

[Slyhunter]

Or they were passing down historical events and crafting narratives to teach lessons about the covenant, obedience, justice, and the unique relationship between God and Israel. So that the events would be easier to remember and pass down. Because that's how they passed down history 3,000 years ago. Orally.

ie. Man Made Religion,

 

[ding]

ie. Man Made Religion,

Sure. Worshiping God is hardwired into us. You aren't helping your cause.

 

[Slyhunter]

Sure. Worshiping God is hardwired into us. You aren't helping your cause.

My cause is there is no argument that can be made by a man made religion that their religion is real and the others aren't that the others can't make as well. That there is no way that we mortals can actually know what the truth is one way or the other and that both theist and atheist alike depends on faith not truth to defend their points of view.

I'm Agnostic BTW.

 

[ding]

My cause is there is no argument that can be made by a man made religion that their religion is real and the others aren't that the others can't make as well. That there is no way that we mortals can actually know what the truth is one way or the other and that both theist and atheist alike depends on faith not truth to defend their points of view.

I'm Agnostic BTW.

So you don't believe it's possible that a moralistic and providential Creator created the universe such that beings that know and create would eventually arise?

 

[ding]

My cause is there is no argument that can be made by a man made religion that their religion is real and the others aren't that the others can't make as well. That there is no way that we mortals can actually know what the truth is one way or the other and that both theist and atheist alike depends on faith not truth to defend their points of view.

I'm Agnostic BTW.

As a rule (as in not the exception to the rule) do you believe the universe provides for the needs of its living creatures?

As a rule (as in not the exception to the rule) do you believe man celebrates good and demonizes evil?

 

[Quantrill]

My cause is there is no argument that can be made by a man made religion that their religion is real and the others aren't that the others can't make as well. That there is no way that we mortals can actually know what the truth is one way or the other and that both theist and atheist alike depends on faith not truth to defend their points of view.

I'm Agnostic BTW.

But you assume Christianity is a man made religion.

But you assume the Christian cannot know the Truth just because you don't know the Truth.

In Christianity, Jesus Christ is the Truth. (John 14:6) "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

In Christianity, faith in the Truth, Jesus Christ, initiates God to move and give us the Holy Ghost. Giving us a new way of knowing, knowing the things of God. And we do know. If I took a lie detector test today and they asked me if Jesus was the Son of God, if the Bible is the Word of God, I would answer yes and the test would show the affirmative.

It won't change your opinion of whether we Christians know or not, but we do.

Quantrill

 

[Slyhunter]

So you don't believe it's possible that a moralistic and providential Creator created the universe such that beings that know and create would eventually arise?

I did not say it can't be possible, but that it couldn't be proven by us mortals as things stand today.

 

[Slyhunter]

As a rule (as in not the exception to the rule) do you believe the universe provides for the needs of its living creatures?

As a rule (as in not the exception to the rule) do you believe man celebrates good and demonizes evil?

doublespeak.
not necessarily a or the rule.
Lots of possibilities could be true or false. Who is to say which.

 

[Slyhunter]

But you assume Christianity is a man made religion.

But you assume the Christian cannot know the Truth just because you don't know the Truth.

In Christianity, Jesus Christ is the Truth. (John 14:6) "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

In Christianity, faith in the Truth, Jesus Christ, initiates God to move and give us the Holy Ghost. Giving us a new way of knowing, knowing the things of God. And we do know. If I took a lie detector test today and they asked me if Jesus was the Son of God, if the Bible is the Word of God, I would answer yes and the test would show the affirmative.

It won't change your opinion of whether we Christians know or not, but we do.

Quantrill

Because a book told you so. There are lots of books telling other things as well.

 

[ding]

I did not say it can't be possible, but that it couldn't be proven by us mortals as things stand today.

Ok, but is it possible?

 

[ding]

doublespeak.
not necessarily a or the rule.
Lots of possibilities could be true or false. Who is to say which.

So you don't believe the universe provides for the needs of its living creatures? And you don't believe man celebrates good and demonizes evil?

Because I do believe it's pretty self evident that as a rule the universe provides for the needs of its living creatures and man celebrates good and demonizes evil.

I think I have some pretty good reasons and evidence for those beliefs. Can you tell me some of the reasons and evidence you don't believe those are true statements?

 

[ding]

Because a book told you so. There are lots of books telling other things as well.

Not me. I studied what was created. How about you? What have you studied?

 

[ding]

Slyhunter

Is it possible for agnostics to know the following things? Because that's providence.

The universe provides for its creatures through fundamental physical laws, the right ingredients (like water, carbon, heavy elements from stars), a suitable environment (like a stable star and planetary orbit), and ongoing processes like solar energy, planetary cycles (wind, rain), and the formation of complex molecules, all allowing life to emerge, adapt, and thrive by finding and extracting energy. It's a cosmic recipe of physics, chemistry, and timing, where elements forged in stars become the building blocks for life on planets like Earth.

Key Universal Provisions:

• Fundamental Laws: Gravity and nuclear forces create stars, while physical laws allow stable elements to form and chemistry to occur.
• Essential Ingredients: The Big Bang created hydrogen, but stars forge heavier elements (carbon, oxygen, iron) that are essential for complex life and scattered by supernovae.
• The Right "Recipe": Life needs liquid water (a universal solvent), carbon (for organic molecules), and a stable energy source like a star, all within a habitable zone.
• Planetary Conditions: Earth's orbit, a stabilizing moon, and a gas giant like Jupiter (to deflect asteroids) create a protective environment.
• Energy & Cycles: The Sun provides constant energy, while atmospheric gases (like water vapor) create a greenhouse effect, keeping temperatures moderate.
• The Cycle of Life: Elements are recycled through stellar life and death (stardust), providing raw materials for new stars and planets, creating a continuous cycle of cosmic creation.

How Creatures Utilize These Provisions:

• Energy Extraction: Organisms evolved to extract energy, from early bacteria using chemicals to plants using sunlight (photosynthesis) and animals using oxygen (respiration).
• Building Blocks: Organisms use carbon, water, and other elements to build proteins, fats, and complex cells.
• Adaptation: Life forms constantly adapt to extract energy and survive within the specific conditions provided by their planet and star.

Ultimately, the universe provides the stage, the props (elements), and the energy, while life emerges as a complex, adaptable process of extracting and utilizing these cosmic resources.

 

[BULLDOG]

Slyhunter

Is it possible for agnostics to know the following things? Because that's providence.

The universe provides for its creatures through fundamental physical laws, the right ingredients (like water, carbon, heavy elements from stars), a suitable environment (like a stable star and planetary orbit), and ongoing processes like solar energy, planetary cycles (wind, rain), and the formation of complex molecules, all allowing life to emerge, adapt, and thrive by finding and extracting energy. It's a cosmic recipe of physics, chemistry, and timing, where elements forged in stars become the building blocks for life on planets like Earth.

Key Universal Provisions:

• Fundamental Laws: Gravity and nuclear forces create stars, while physical laws allow stable elements to form and chemistry to occur.
• Essential Ingredients: The Big Bang created hydrogen, but stars forge heavier elements (carbon, oxygen, iron) that are essential for complex life and scattered by supernovae.
• The Right "Recipe": Life needs liquid water (a universal solvent), carbon (for organic molecules), and a stable energy source like a star, all within a habitable zone.
• Planetary Conditions: Earth's orbit, a stabilizing moon, and a gas giant like Jupiter (to deflect asteroids) create a protective environment.
• Energy & Cycles: The Sun provides constant energy, while atmospheric gases (like water vapor) create a greenhouse effect, keeping temperatures moderate.
• The Cycle of Life: Elements are recycled through stellar life and death (stardust), providing raw materials for new stars and planets, creating a continuous cycle of cosmic creation.

How Creatures Utilize These Provisions:

• Energy Extraction: Organisms evolved to extract energy, from early bacteria using chemicals to plants using sunlight (photosynthesis) and animals using oxygen (respiration).
• Building Blocks: Organisms use carbon, water, and other elements to build proteins, fats, and complex cells.
• Adaptation: Life forms constantly adapt to extract energy and survive within the specific conditions provided by their planet and star.

Ultimately, the universe provides the stage, the props (elements), and the energy, while life emerges as a complex, adaptable process of extracting and utilizing these cosmic resources.

I'm not sure anybody would disagree with your remarks. The question is whether all that comes about through random events that over eons finally produced an environment that will support life, or if it was specifically designed and built by an all knowing, all powerful creator.

 

[ding]

I'm not sure anybody would disagree with your remarks. The question is whether all that comes about through random events that over eons finally produced an environment that will support life, or if it was specifically designed and built by an all knowing, all powerful creator.

The physical properties of matter are so finely tuned for life that if any one of a considerable number of physical properties were even slightly different, it would be impossible for life to exist our the universe.

George Wald: Life and Mind in the Universe

 

[BULLDOG]

The physical properties of matter are so finely tuned for life that if any one of a considerable number of physical properties were even slightly different, it would be impossible for life to exist our the universe.

George Wald: Life and Mind in the Universe

And? Lots of random things can accumulate over eons.