Actual Conservatism vs republicanism

[YoursTruly]

Amazing how you want to make distinctions without a difference. As always, if you support republicans and vote for republicans, then you are a republican, no matter what you want to call yourself. Of course, the republican party doesn't exist as it once did. It has become the trump party, so if you support trump politicians, and vote for trump politicians, then you are a trumpster. I understand that you might be embarrassed to admit that, but that is the reality.

Most of the republicans I personally know, would rather Trump just shut up and go back to his personal life. Without saying, I think a lot of republican politicians feel the same way.
I've noted some differences between republicans and conservatives. Would you like me to mention more?

Actual conservatives believing in having a military that's just big enough to defend ourselves and win any war we may actually get into.
Our foreign policy consists of "being friends and trading with all willing nations. Those that are not willing, then we don't even worry about them. If they become an actual threat to our national security, we blow them the F up, and come home. Not stay over there for decades, reestablishing their government and their military. Not rebuilding their cities and other things we destroyed. We just simply come home.

Many of us are not opposed to the Social Security system. Only the way the money is used from the general fund to pay for anything other than SS related items.
I'm a conservative, and I'm not opposed to some of the welfare programs we have. I just think the republicans and democrats have made it too easy for people to get on welfare long enough to get addicted to it.
Some things the R & D's have shoved down our throats just need a little tweeking. Others need to be abolished or completely overhauled.

Especially the Federal Reserve system. Simply because it affects everything that money touches. Which is everything.

 

[Pellinore]

Thank you for posting this thread, because I try to point this out to people all the time, usually with limited success.

At their hearts, liberals and progressives seek to change society in order to fix social problems, but conservatives resist change they see as unnecessary, in order to conserve (get it?) the culture as it is. In the US, this means support of our national institutions such as the nuclear family, the established church, and law and order; a priority on individual freedoms without undue government influence; fiscal responsibility; equality for all and success based on hard work and personal achievement; rejection of dictators; and a support for our Constitutional ideals and the strength of our democracy.

It's tough to see those conservative ideals as being the ones that drive the Republican party today. I instead see a party turning strongly toward nationalism, which is where I think the line of the seventh system is being drawn. The GOP also shows a focus on destroying political opponents; a populism-fueled assault on education and science; a demand for loyalty; an undermining of tradition; an embrace of overseas dictators; and a blurring of personal and impersonal power in the service of a supreme leader. None of this screams "conservative" to me.

 

[YoursTruly]

And "fair share" is just someone's opinion.

Not really.
If 1,000 people are going to use a road that costs $1,000 to build then each person should pitch in $1.
This shit isn’t complicated at all.

But if one person earns $1 and the other person earns $1,000 it's hardly "fair".

And yet in your economy, the person with the $1000 should pay $999 in taxes to make it fair?

In my economy? No.

I wouldn't go that extreme but a progressive tax system is infinately more fair.

In your economy? Absolutely. Make everyone IDENTICAL in every way. Economically, especially. All in the name of "fairness" Progressive taxation is still theft. Flat tax is more fair.

A flat tax isn't anymore fair than the progressive tax. It's just the wording used to describe it, that makes it sound more fair.
Why in the hell should anyone have to pay a tax just to buy something?
Don't y'all realize that the size and scope of government is just way too big? And that cutting 75% of the governments tax income wouldn't force poor people on the streets. It wouldn't cut out defence spending or SS at all. Our government could run just fine on 20% of what it collects from "we the people."

The government has a spending problem. Did you see what went into Trumps first $1.4 TRILLION spending bill? Gender studies in Pakistan. Something like a 100 mile border fence for some middle eastern country. Trillions upon trillions just in the last 3 presidents that have gone to things that have nothing to do with the American people here.

 

[BULLDOG]

Amazing how you want to make distinctions without a difference. As always, if you support republicans and vote for republicans, then you are a republican, no matter what you want to call yourself. Of course, the republican party doesn't exist as it once did. It has become the trump party, so if you support trump politicians, and vote for trump politicians, then you are a trumpster. I understand that you might be embarrassed to admit that, but that is the reality.

Most of the republicans I personally know, would rather Trump just shut up and go back to his personal life. Without saying, I think a lot of republican politicians feel the same way.
I've noted some differences between republicans and conservatives. Would you like me to mention more?

Actual conservatives believing in having a military that's just big enough to defend ourselves and win any war we may actually get into.
Our foreign policy consists of "being friends and trading with all willing nations. Those that are not willing, then we don't even worry about them. If they become an actual threat to our national security, we blow them the F up, and come home. Not stay over there for decades, reestablishing their government and their military. Not rebuilding their cities and other things we destroyed. We just simply come home.

Many of us are not opposed to the Social Security system. Only the way the money is used from the general fund to pay for anything other than SS related items.
I'm a conservative, and I'm not opposed to some of the welfare programs we have. I just think the republicans and democrats have made it too easy for people to get on welfare long enough to get addicted to it.
Some things the R & D's have shoved down our throats just need a little tweeking. Others need to be abolished or completely overhauled.

Especially the Federal Reserve system. Simply because it affects everything that money touches. Which is everything.

As long as trump is the head of the party, and fear of Trump determines how the entire party behaves, any tiny behind the scene differences don't matter. Have an exorcism and expel his disgusting ass, and then you can decide which faction will control your party. Until then, it's just idyll chatter.

 

[GMCGeneral]

And "fair share" is just someone's opinion.

Not really.
If 1,000 people are going to use a road that costs $1,000 to build then each person should pitch in $1.
This shit isn’t complicated at all.

But if one person earns $1 and the other person earns $1,000 it's hardly "fair".

And yet in your economy, the person with the $1000 should pay $999 in taxes to make it fair?

In my economy? No.

I wouldn't go that extreme but a progressive tax system is infinately more fair.

In your economy? Absolutely. Make everyone IDENTICAL in every way. Economically, especially. All in the name of "fairness" Progressive taxation is still theft. Flat tax is more fair.

A flat tax isn't anymore fair than the progressive tax. It's just the wording used to describe it, that makes it sound more fair.
Why in the hell should anyone have to pay a tax just to buy something?
Don't y'all realize that the size and scope of government is just way too big? And that cutting 75% of the governments tax income wouldn't force poor people on the streets. It wouldn't cut out defence spending or SS at all. Our government could run just fine on 20% of what it collects.

The government has a spending problem. Did you see what went into Trumps first $1.4 TRILLION spending bill? Gender studies in Pakistan. Something like a 100 mile border fence for some middle eastern country. Trillions upon trillions just in the last 3 presidents that have gone to things that have nothing to do with the American people here.

Agreed. But you know Liberals. Spend, spend, spend. I seriously doubt they even know how to balance a checkbook, let alone balance their own budgets.

 

[YoursTruly]

Thank you for posting this thread, because I try to point this out to people all the time, usually with limited success.

At their hearts, liberals and progressives seek to change society in order to fix social problems, but conservatives resist change they see as unnecessary, in order to conserve (get it?) the culture as it is. In the US, this means support of our national institutions such as the nuclear family, the established church, and law and order; a priority on individual freedoms without undue government influence; fiscal responsibility; equality for all and success based on hard work and personal achievement; rejection of dictators; and a support for our Constitutional ideals and the strength of our democracy.

It's tough to see those conservative ideals as being the ones that drive the Republican party today. I instead see a party turning strongly toward nationalism, which is where I think the line of the seventh system is being drawn. The GOP also shows a focus on destroying political opponents; a populism-fueled assault on education and science; a demand for loyalty; an undermining of tradition; an embrace of overseas dictators; and a blurring of personal and impersonal power in the service of a supreme leader. None of this screams "conservative" to me.

From what I understand, the Republican party is now what the Whig Party was, when the GOP overtook it. But with the system the R & D's have in place, another party over taking either of them is almost impossible. So much so that I opted out of the libertarian party.

Trump, IMO was just too progressive for me. But BY GOD, you'll never convince a trump supporter of that. The "whataboutism" comes out and the conversation is over.

 

[BrokeLoser]

And "fair share" is just someone's opinion.

Not really.
If 1,000 people are going to use a road that costs $1,000 to build then each person should pitch in $1.
This shit isn’t complicated at all.

But if one person earns $1 and the other person earns $1,000 it's hardly "fair".

And yet in your economy, the person with the $1000 should pay $999 in taxes to make it fair?

In my economy? No.

I wouldn't go that extreme but a progressive tax system is infinately more fair.

In your economy? Absolutely. Make everyone IDENTICAL in every way. Economically, especially. All in the name of "fairness" Progressive taxation is still theft. Flat tax is more fair.

A flat tax isn't anymore fair than the progressive tax. It's just the wording used to describe it, that makes it sound more fair.
Why in the hell should anyone have to pay a tax just to buy something?
Don't y'all realize that the size and scope of government is just way too big? And that cutting 75% of the governments tax income wouldn't force poor people on the streets. It wouldn't cut out defence spending or SS at all. Our government could run just fine on 20% of what it collects.

The government has a spending problem. Did you see what went into Trumps first $1.4 TRILLION spending bill? Gender studies in Pakistan. Something like a 100 mile border fence for some middle eastern country. Trillions upon trillions just in the last 3 presidents that have gone to things that have nothing to do with the American people here.

Thank you for posting this thread, because I try to point this out to people all the time, usually with limited success.

At their hearts, liberals and progressives seek to change society in order to fix social problems, but conservatives resist change they see as unnecessary, in order to conserve (get it?) the culture as it is. In the US, this means support of our national institutions such as the nuclear family, the established church, and law and order; a priority on individual freedoms without undue government influence; fiscal responsibility; equality for all and success based on hard work and personal achievement; rejection of dictators; and a support for our Constitutional ideals and the strength of our democracy.

It's tough to see those conservative ideals as being the ones that drive the Republican party today. I instead see a party turning strongly toward nationalism, which is where I think the line of the seventh system is being drawn. The GOP also shows a focus on destroying political opponents; a populism-fueled assault on education and science; a demand for loyalty; an undermining of tradition; an embrace of overseas dictators; and a blurring of personal and impersonal power in the service of a supreme leader. None of this screams "conservative" to me.

From what I understand, the Republican party is now what the Whig Party was, when the GOP overtook it. But with the system the R & D's have in place, another party over taking either of them is almost impossible. So much so that I opted out of the libertarian party.

Trump, IMO was just too progressive for me. But BY GOD, you'll never convince a trump supporter of that. The "whataboutism" comes out and the conversation is over.

Here’s the real problem...old school “true” conservatives are nutless pieces of dog shit...the worthless, spineless fucks couldn't keep white men, God and heterosexuality cool in a nation founded, built funded and run by white, religious, heterosexual men. I say FUCK old school nutless “conservatives“.

 

[YoursTruly]

As long as trump is the head of the party, and fear of Trump determines how the entire party behaves, any tiny behind the scene differences don't matter. Have an exorcism and expel his disgusting ass, and then you can decide which faction will control your party. Until then, it's just idyll chatter.

How in the world does anyone still think Trump runs anything in the GOP? Is the GOP still friendly towards Trump supporters? Sure. But why?
Because they make up a lot of voters and support for the GOP. But that's it.
The same way a lot of Bernie supporters still get a little respect from the DNC. Because he still has some supporters. Although not as much, because it's been a long time now, since Sanders was ripped off by the Clinton Machine and the DNC.

I've been an underdog (Ron Paul) supporter and seen with my own eyes how that scam works. They're nice to you, even though the leadership isn't going to support you, simply because you're still supporting the party.

Clue: If the GOP came out and opposed Trump, like Cheney did, the GOP would lose the next election. The R & D's would have a little tougher challenge against the Libertarian party. They'd still win, because the deck is stacked against any 3rd party. But they'd have to cheat & lie more. They'd have to spend more money.

It's exactly like what the true liberals are doing with the new progressives in DC. Just sort of going along, until they're replaced.

 

[YoursTruly]

Here’s the real problem...old school “true” conservatives are nutless pieces of dog shit...the worthless, spineless fucks couldn't keep white men, God and heterosexuality cool in a nation founded, built funded and run by white, religious, heterosexual men. I say FUCK old school nutless “conservatives“.

And we say "fuck you too, pal." Actual conservatism hasn't been in the majority since at least Goldwater. All these fake conservatives, like Reagan, Trump and W., were as you say, spineless fucks.

There have been a few actual conservatives, Justin Amash, Ron Paul, Rand Paul (his first 6 or 8 years) and maybe a few I don't know about. But they were all thrown under the bus by the neocons.
So when you say "old school true conservatives," I don't think you even know what that means. Because there haven't been enough to make much of a difference.

 

[BrokeLoser]

How in the world does anyone still think Trump runs anything in the GOP?

Trump owns the GOP....GOP’ers need to start a new party of pussified nutlessness.

 

[BULLDOG]

As long as trump is the head of the party, and fear of Trump determines how the entire party behaves, any tiny behind the scene differences don't matter. Have an exorcism and expel his disgusting ass, and then you can decide which faction will control your party. Until then, it's just idyll chatter.

How in the world does anyone still think Trump runs anything in the GOP? Is the GOP still friendly towards Trump supporters? Sure. But why?
Because they make up a lot of voters and support for the GOP. But that's it.
The same way a lot of Bernie supporters still get a little respect from the DNC. Because he still has some supporters. Although not as much, because it's been a long time now, since Sanders was ripped off by the Clinton Machine and the DNC.

I've been an underdog (Ron Paul) supporter and seen with my own eyes how that scam works. They're nice to you, even though the leadership isn't going to support you, simply because you're still supporting the party.

Clue: If the GOP came out and opposed Trump, like Cheney did, the GOP would lose the next election. The R & D's would have a little tougher challenge against the Libertarian party. They'd still win, because the deck is stacked against any 3rd party. But they'd have to cheat & lie more. They'd have to spend more money.

It's exactly like what the true liberals are doing with the new progressives in DC. Just sort of going along, until they're replaced.

You have obviously been living in a cave with no communication with the outside world. Trump is the head of the GOP.

 

[BrokeLoser]

Here’s the real problem...old school “true” conservatives are nutless pieces of dog shit...the worthless, spineless fucks couldn't keep white men, God and heterosexuality cool in a nation founded, built funded and run by white, religious, heterosexual men. I say FUCK old school nutless “conservatives“.

And we say "fuck you too, pal." Actual conservatism hasn't been in the majority since at least Goldwater. All these fake conservatives, like Reagan, Trump and W., were as you say, spineless fucks.

There have been a few actual conservatives, Justin Amash, Ron Paul, Rand Paul (his first 6 or 8 years) and maybe a few I don't know about. But they were all thrown under the bus by the neocons.
So when you say "old school true conservatives," I don't think you even know what that means. Because there haven't been enough to make much of a difference.

What have “conservatives“ conserved, preserved or protected?
You sacklesss pukes have got your asses handed to you for three decades. The Left owns your pussified asses...PERIOD!

 

[GMCGeneral]

Here’s the real problem...old school “true” conservatives are nutless pieces of dog shit...the worthless, spineless fucks couldn't keep white men, God and heterosexuality cool in a nation founded, built funded and run by white, religious, heterosexual men. I say FUCK old school nutless “conservatives“.

And we say "fuck you too, pal." Actual conservatism hasn't been in the majority since at least Goldwater. All these fake conservatives, like Reagan, Trump and W., were as you say, spineless fucks.

There have been a few actual conservatives, Justin Amash, Ron Paul, Rand Paul (his first 6 or 8 years) and maybe a few I don't know about. But they were all thrown under the bus by the neocons.
So when you say "old school true conservatives," I don't think you even know what that means. Because there haven't been enough to make much of a difference.

And yet Goldwater, Amash, both Pauls and Patrick Buchanan were losers in the Presidential race. Reagan OWNS the most lopsided victory in US election history. That record is not likely to be broken.

 

[GMCGeneral]

Here’s the real problem...old school “true” conservatives are nutless pieces of dog shit...the worthless, spineless fucks couldn't keep white men, God and heterosexuality cool in a nation founded, built funded and run by white, religious, heterosexual men. I say FUCK old school nutless “conservatives“.

And we say "fuck you too, pal." Actual conservatism hasn't been in the majority since at least Goldwater. All these fake conservatives, like Reagan, Trump and W., were as you say, spineless fucks.

There have been a few actual conservatives, Justin Amash, Ron Paul, Rand Paul (his first 6 or 8 years) and maybe a few I don't know about. But they were all thrown under the bus by the neocons.
So when you say "old school true conservatives," I don't think you even know what that means. Because there haven't been enough to make much of a difference.

What have “conservatives“ conserved, preserved or protected?
You sacklesss pukes have got your asses handed to you for three decades. The Left owns your pussified asses...PERIOD!

What you refer to are known as RINOs.

 

[YoursTruly]

Two words: Class Envy.

Class envy isn't a bad thing. It helps to give people the incentive to do more. The problem is, republicans and democrats think that if you do more, you should pay them more. R & D's call that "your fair share."

 

[BrokeLoser]

Here’s the real problem...old school “true” conservatives are nutless pieces of dog shit...the worthless, spineless fucks couldn't keep white men, God and heterosexuality cool in a nation founded, built funded and run by white, religious, heterosexual men. I say FUCK old school nutless “conservatives“.

And we say "fuck you too, pal." Actual conservatism hasn't been in the majority since at least Goldwater. All these fake conservatives, like Reagan, Trump and W., were as you say, spineless fucks.

There have been a few actual conservatives, Justin Amash, Ron Paul, Rand Paul (his first 6 or 8 years) and maybe a few I don't know about. But they were all thrown under the bus by the neocons.
So when you say "old school true conservatives," I don't think you even know what that means. Because there haven't been enough to make much of a difference.

What have “conservatives“ conserved, preserved or protected?
You sacklesss pukes have got your asses handed to you for three decades. The Left owns your pussified asses...PERIOD!

What you refer to are known as RINOs.

Reagan was a RINO?

 

[GMCGeneral]

Here’s the real problem...old school “true” conservatives are nutless pieces of dog shit...the worthless, spineless fucks couldn't keep white men, God and heterosexuality cool in a nation founded, built funded and run by white, religious, heterosexual men. I say FUCK old school nutless “conservatives“.

And we say "fuck you too, pal." Actual conservatism hasn't been in the majority since at least Goldwater. All these fake conservatives, like Reagan, Trump and W., were as you say, spineless fucks.

There have been a few actual conservatives, Justin Amash, Ron Paul, Rand Paul (his first 6 or 8 years) and maybe a few I don't know about. But they were all thrown under the bus by the neocons.
So when you say "old school true conservatives," I don't think you even know what that means. Because there haven't been enough to make much of a difference.

What have “conservatives“ conserved, preserved or protected?
You sacklesss pukes have got your asses handed to you for three decades. The Left owns your pussified asses...PERIOD!

What you refer to are known as RINOs.

Reagan was a RINO?

Far from that. I refer to the Bush clan, the Cheneys, Mitt, and other "progressives" (re: Liberals) within the GOP that the Democrats are just slobbering over right now.

 

[BrokeLoser]

Here’s the real problem...old school “true” conservatives are nutless pieces of dog shit...the worthless, spineless fucks couldn't keep white men, God and heterosexuality cool in a nation founded, built funded and run by white, religious, heterosexual men. I say FUCK old school nutless “conservatives“.

And we say "fuck you too, pal." Actual conservatism hasn't been in the majority since at least Goldwater. All these fake conservatives, like Reagan, Trump and W., were as you say, spineless fucks.

There have been a few actual conservatives, Justin Amash, Ron Paul, Rand Paul (his first 6 or 8 years) and maybe a few I don't know about. But they were all thrown under the bus by the neocons.
So when you say "old school true conservatives," I don't think you even know what that means. Because there haven't been enough to make much of a difference.

What have “conservatives“ conserved, preserved or protected?
You sacklesss pukes have got your asses handed to you for three decades. The Left owns your pussified asses...PERIOD!

What you refer to are known as RINOs.

Reagan was a RINO?

Far from that. I refer to the Bush clan, the Cheneys, Mitt, and other "progressives" (re: Liberals) within the GOP that the Democrats are just slobbering over right now.

NO American president fucked over Americans like Reagan did...his pussified bipartisan bullshit sent America on a crash course to demise.

If Lincoln sends slaves home to Africa and Reagan doesn’t sign the Amnesty Bill...

What does today’s America look like...politically speaking of course?

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[Missouri_Mike]

And "fair share" is just someone's opinion.

Not really.
If 1,000 people are going to use a road that costs $1,000 to build then each person should pitch in $1.
This shit isn’t complicated at all.

But if one person earns $1 and the other person earns $1,000 it's hardly "fair".

Both should pay 10%. Problem solved.

 

[YoursTruly]

And yet Goldwater, Amash, both Pauls and Patrick Buchanan were losers in the Presidential race. Reagan OWNS the most lopsided victory in US election history. That record is not likely to be broken.

Victory in a rigged game, isn't much of a victory, is it?
Ron Paul introduced a $1 trillion spending cut that would've taken place his first year in office. And didn't take a dime from social security.
What was Romney's? The same as Obama's. In fact, so was Romney's healthcare plan. The same as Obama. Which was also the same as Trumps.

Reagan beat Carter because Carter was also trying to solve our oil and money problems on our own. To force a few more years of hard times so that in the end, the problem would've been solved. But people wanted to do it the easy way. Which is part of the reason we're in the shape were in today.
Borrowing from the fed, creating HUGE financial bubbles that burst ever so often.
BTW, Carter was hell bent on becoming energy independent. He was not opposed to almost any source of energy. Especially nuclear. He was a HUGE fan of nuclear power. But Carter wanted to "drill baby drill." He wanted to use coal until something better came along.
Reagan on the otherhand, wanted to borrow from the fed (with interest), make everything look good for a while, and then borrow more.
Is it any wonder why Reagan was THE first president to ever spend $1 trillion? And he opened up the flood gates for foreign investors buying up American lands and businesses.
17 debt ceiling increases, 1 tax reduction and 4 tax increases.

Oh yeah, Reagan was a real winner (for the liberals)