A Comicbook Perspective of the Muslim Immigration Issue

[TemplarKormac]

Take a look at these two pictures. The first one below is of the WWII comicbook edition of Captain America, who is depicted on the cover socking it to Adolf Hitler, easily seen as war propaganda, but it drew support for the war effort:

This is a parody of the above cover, fan art, depicting a Muslim Woman "Ms. Marvel" apparently socking it to Trump, clearly depicting him in the same way as Adolph Hitler, with "Faux News" on a display on the wall in the background. It says that it is a "bigot busting drawing." As can be deduced, the artist is taking a shot at Trump's positions on Muslim Immigration:

This is my take.

This drawing has less to do with Captain America punching Hitler as it does with encouraging members of Islam to be hostile and/or violent towards Trump. It's free speech, but this is a bit much.

This could have the unintended effect of being used by terrorist groups like ISIS to recruit other radicals to their side. If it's bigoted to believe that Muslims should be temporarily forbidden to immigrate here, then it is also bigoted to encourage hatred of those who support such an idea.

Bigotry is an indifference to a group of people or a set of beliefs. There's bigotry on both ends.

And as for the Hitler comparison, Trump is only asking for a halt on Muslims immigrating into America, he didn't kill 6 million of them. Nor is he suggesting that he intends to commit genocide against the Islamic religion. To compare his policy stances to the policies of a genocidal maniac who was responsible for the death of nearly 6 million people is a bit of a stretch.

You can always win brownie points by comparing someone like Donald Trump to Hitler if you don't like their opinions, but just make sure you research history before you do. It is never okay to compare someone to Hitler. Hitler murdered millions of people. Trump never will. What gives you the impression that anyone on that debate stage tonight, much less Trump, would advocate for the murder of millions of Muslims?

Someone will say, "Well Trump encourages hatred just by the way he speaks and portrays himself to the public and media. I honestly don't think he needs help in that department."

Well, like grammaw says to me sometimes:

"Two wrongs don't make a right."

So, just because Trump is supposedly encouraging hatred of Islam, that doesn't make it right to react with hatred towards him or any of his supporters who back such an idea. I see enough of this kind of stuff regarding gay rights. The viciousness some people exhibit towards others who believe differently than they do is disheartening.

Then again, someone else mentioned to me earlier today "He didn't kill anybody. But Hitler did start somewhere. A lot of people who have been nothing but upstanding Americans have suddenly felt as if they've been targeted, perhaps indirectly. Even if he's calling for a ban on immigrants only, American Muslims are now being looked at as being guilty by association. "

So, Trump isn't capable of carrying out such an atrocity. Nor is he calling for a direct ban on immigrants. He talks tough, but he won't channel Hitler and send Muslims in America to extermination camps. To say that "Hitler did start somewhere" as it regards to Trump is an uncalled for insinuation. It's nonsense. It's intellectually dishonest.

As far as all upstanding Muslims are concerned, I understand. But members of Islam living here in America have only the radicals in their faith overseas to blame for the negative sentiment being displayed towards them. The same happened on 9/11.

No, there are upstanding Muslims everywhere in America, and the only way to combat the hatred is to stand up and say "I condemn those radicals, they do not represent my faith!" They need to do what they can to distance themselves from it.

Some will tell me I'm hating on Islam. Far from it. Even if I'm preaching hatred of a religion, then the cartoon mirrors the sentiment by encouraging hatred of people who A) Watch Fox News, thus Republicans, and B) Anyone who supports Trump's idea, thus once more, Republicans, or people who support Donald Trump. Anyone with any sense of deductive reasoning can see what the artist is trying to convey. A simple look at the imagery used in the picture will tell you that.

Some will assert that I'm defending Donald Trump. Most certainly not. I'm rubbing against the grain of public opinion here when I say Trump's proposals on Muslim immigration are extremely incorrect. It is an overreaction. And that's not a valid way, nor is it the only way. There are plenty of other ways to handle it.

People can believe what they want, whichever way they want. But hatred is not inherent to one group or religion. It's human nature.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Good job, youngster.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Good job, youngster.

Thank you, sir.

 

[gallantwarrior]

I see absolutely no reason why we should not shut down immigration into this country until we have a good, solid handle on who (and what) we are allowing to immigrate.

 

[Kosh]

The far left has always been the best recruiter for terrorist organizations..

Some will tell me I'm hating on Islam. Far from it. Some will assert that I'm defending Donald Trump. Most certainly not. I'm rubbing against the grain of public opinion here when I say Trump's proposals on Muslim immigration are extremely incorrect. It is an overreaction. And that's not a valid way, nor is it the only way. There are plenty of other ways to handle it.

And that is the problem we have no, little to no reaction from a non existent leader. So when things spiral out of control in many cases you have to over react to get things back in order.

When it comes to dealing with people with extremists views, moderation will not work in that case..

The whole problem is you can not vet people in many areas of the world, especially in areas that are under siege. Which is of course what is being called for, a temporary hold to see how they can be vetted. Not an outright ban as the propaganda machine spins..

When it comes to Trump I see him as a "progressive" acting like a "progressive".

I do not think he is in this to win the presidency..

 

[candycorn]

"Hatred is human nature" says the OP. Nothing can be further from the truth. Maybe it is for the OP. Maybe it is for Conservatives. For most humans, hatred is what is earned by your actions or earned by others for their actions.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Attacking and killing unaffiliated civilians does not warrant hatred? I.e. murders in Paris, murders in Santa Barbara?

 

[TheOldSchool]

Take a look at these two pictures. The first one below is of the WWII comicbook edition of Captain America, who is depicted on the cover socking it to Adolf Hitler, easily seen as war propaganda, but it drew support for the war effort:

This is a parody of the above cover, fan art, depicting a Muslim Woman "Ms. Marvel" apparently socking it to Trump, clearly depicting him in the same way as Adolph Hitler, with "Faux News" on a display on the wall in the background. It says that it is a "bigot busting drawing." As can be deduced, the artist is taking a shot at Trump's positions on Muslim Immigration:

This is my take.

This drawing has less to do with Captain America punching Hitler as it does with encouraging members of Islam to be hostile and/or violent towards him. It's free speech, but this is a bit much.

This could have the unintended effect of being used by terrorist groups like ISIS to recruit other radicals to their side. If it's bigoted to believe that Muslims should be temporarily forbidden to immigrate here, then it is also bigoted to encourage hatred of those who support such an idea.

Bigotry is an indifference to a group of people or a set of beliefs. There's bigotry on both ends.

And as for the Hitler comparison, Trump is only asking for a halt on Muslims immigrating into America, he didn't kill 6 million of them. Nor is he suggesting that he intends to commit genocide against the Islamic religion. To compare his policy stances to the policies of a genocidal maniac who was responsible for the death of nearly 6 million people is a bit of a stretch.

You can always win brownie points by comparing someone like Donald Trump to Hitler if you don't like their opinions, but just make sure you research history before you do. It is never okay to compare someone to Hitler. Hitler murdered millions of people. Trump never will. What gives you the impression that anyone on that debate stage tonight, much less Trump, would advocate for the murder of millions of Muslims?

Someone will say, "Well Trump encourages hatred just by the way he speaks and portrays himself to the public and media. I honestly don't think he needs help in that department."

Well, like grammaw says to me sometimes:

"Two wrongs don't make a right."

So, just because Trump is supposedly encouraging hatred of Islam, doesn't mean it's right to react with hatred towards him or any of his supporters who back such an idea. I see enough of this kind of stuff regarding gay rights. The viciousness some people exhibit towards others who believe differently than they do is disheartening.

Then again, someone else mentioned to me earlier today "He didn't kill anybody. But Hitler did start somewhere. A lot of people who have been nothing but upstanding Americans have suddenly felt as if they've been targeted, perhaps indirectly. Even if he's calling for a ban on immigrants only, American Muslims are now being looked at as being guilty by association. "

So, Trump isn't capable of carrying out such an atrocity. Nor is he calling for a direct ban on immigrants. He talks tough, but he won't channel Hitler and send Muslims in America to extermination camps. To say that "Hitler did start somewhere" as it regards to Trump is an uncalled for insinuation. It's nonsense. It's intellectually dishonest.

As far as all upstanding Muslims are concerned, I understand. But members of Islam living here in America have only the radicals in their faith overseas to blame for the negative sentiment being displayed towards them. The same happened on 9/11.

No, there are upstanding Muslims everywhere in America, and the only way to combat the hatred is to stand up and say "I condemn those radicals, they do not represent my faith!" They need to do what they can to distance themselves from it.

Some will tell me I'm hating on Islam. Far from it. Even if I'm preaching hatred of a religion, then the cartoon mirrors the sentiment by encouraging hatred of people who A) Watch Fox News, thus Republicans, and B) Anyone who supports Trump's idea, thus once more, Republicans, or people who support Donald Trump. Anyone with any sense of deductive reasoning can see what the artist is trying to convey. A simple look at the imagery used in the picture will tell you that.

Some will assert that I'm defending Donald Trump. Most certainly not. I'm rubbing against the grain of public opinion here when I say Trump's proposals on Muslim immigration are extremely incorrect. It is an overreaction. And that's not a valid way, nor is it the only way. There are plenty of other ways to handle it.

People can believe what they want, whichever way they want. But hatred is not inherent to one group or religion. It's human nature.

Funny you bring up Captain America to talk about Trump. Maybe you've never read anything about Captain America. His powers are lame compared to other heroes and he's often tacky and boring, but the one thing he never wavers on is his devotion to America's principles and the ideas that America stands for. He'd sock Trump the same as Hitler.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I see absolutely no reason why we should not shut down immigration into this country until we have a good, solid handle on who (and what) we are allowing to immigrate.

I understand the sentiment. I completely get it. In some ways I agree with it, and in some ways I don't.

I would like to slash the quotas of, and not completely ban immigration by Muslim Immigrants. Lower the quota, and make it easier for our government to really and truly vet these people, but not before the vetting process is drastically overhauled. Think of it as a compromise.

 

[Pogo]

To say that "Hitler did start somewhere" as it regards to Trump is an uncalled for insinuation. It's nonsense. It's intellectually dishonest.

How?

Is it not a fact that whatever Hitler did, like whatever anyone ever did, had to have some starting point?
Is it not also a fact that there existed a point in time where Hitler had not "done" anything but talk?
And are/were not the two saying the same things?

Where's the incongruity?

 

[idb]

I see absolutely no reason why we should not shut down immigration into this country until we have a good, solid handle on who (and what) we are allowing to immigrate.

I understand the sentiment. I completely get it. In some ways I agree with it, and in some ways I don't.

I would like to slash the quotas of, and not completely ban immigration by Muslim refugees. Lower the quota, and make it easier for our government to really and truly vet these people, but not before the vetting process is drastically overhauled. Think of it as a compromise.

What's wrong with the vetting process as it stands?

 

[gallantwarrior]

I see absolutely no reason why we should not shut down immigration into this country until we have a good, solid handle on who (and what) we are allowing to immigrate.

I understand the sentiment. I completely get it. In some ways I agree with it, and in some ways I don't.

I would like to slash the quotas of, and not completely ban immigration by Muslim refugees. Lower the quota, and make it easier for our government to really and truly vet these people, but not before the vetting process is drastically overhauled. Think of it as a compromise.

What's wrong with the vetting process as it stands?

Let's start with the cvnt who murdered 14 people in SB, CA.

 

[Pogo]

I see absolutely no reason why we should not shut down immigration into this country until we have a good, solid handle on who (and what) we are allowing to immigrate.

I understand the sentiment. I completely get it. In some ways I agree with it, and in some ways I don't.

I would like to slash the quotas of, and not completely ban immigration by Muslim refugees. Lower the quota, and make it easier for our government to really and truly vet these people, but not before the vetting process is drastically overhauled. Think of it as a compromise.

What's wrong with the vetting process as it stands?

Let's start with the cvnt who murdered 14 people in SB, CA.

Yeah uh -- he was a US citizen. By birth.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Nothing can be further from the truth. Maybe it is for the OP. Maybe it is for Conservatives. For most humans, hatred is what is earned by your actions or earned by others for their actions.

Or, what might be foreign to you, is that hatred can be unfounded, based on fear, or motivated by biases, it can be based on race, ethnicity or religion. That pretty much means anyone in two party politics. Not just me, nor Republicans, but everyone.

 

[candycorn]

Nothing can be further from the truth. Maybe it is for the OP. Maybe it is for Conservatives. For most humans, hatred is what is earned by your actions or earned by others for their actions.

Or, what might be foreign to you, is that hatred can be unfounded, based on fear, or motivated by biases, it can be based on race, ethnicity or religion. That pretty much means anyone in two party politics. Not just me, nor Republicans, but everyone.

Hatred is not human nature---as you say in the OP.

 

[BULLDOG]

Attacking and killing unaffiliated civilians does not warrant hatred? I.e. murders in Paris, murders in Santa Barbara?

Of course it does, but it does nobody any good to blame the wrong people. That's what got us into Iraq

 

[Kosh]

"Hatred is human nature" says the OP. Nothing can be further from the truth. Maybe it is for the OP. Maybe it is for Conservatives. For most humans, hatred is what is earned by your actions or earned by others for their actions.

The far left shows their hatred for anything not far left day in and day out on this board..

It is your religious belief that causes such hatred..

 

[Pogo]

Attacking and killing unaffiliated civilians does not warrant hatred? I.e. murders in Paris, murders in Santa Barbara?

Santa Barbara?

 

[Kosh]

Attacking and killing unaffiliated civilians does not warrant hatred? I.e. murders in Paris, murders in Santa Barbara?

Of course it does, but it does nobody any good to blame the wrong people. That's what got us into Iraq

And the far left narrative runs without question or hesitation..

Yep 1991 in Iraq, had no reason to go there right?

 

[TemplarKormac]

I see absolutely no reason why we should not shut down immigration into this country until we have a good, solid handle on who (and what) we are allowing to immigrate.

I understand the sentiment. I completely get it. In some ways I agree with it, and in some ways I don't.

I would like to slash the quotas of, and not completely ban immigration by Muslim refugees. Lower the quota, and make it easier for our government to really and truly vet these people, but not before the vetting process is drastically overhauled. Think of it as a compromise.

What's wrong with the vetting process as it stands?

Let's start with the cvnt who murdered 14 people in SB, CA.

Yeah uh -- he was a US citizen. By birth.

That doesn't matter.

THEY were Islamic radicals. Farook was given his due process rights as an natural born American citizen via a bullet through his skull. Malik was not a citizen, who came here on a K-1 visa, she radicalized Farook, and like Farook was given her right to due process with a bullet through her skull. The vetting process doesn't work. It didn't help that political correctness played a role in shutting down an FBI investigation into Farook and Malik which could have stopped them dead in their tracks.