Why the Sudden Doubts about the Verdict?

[Care4all]

The records did not claim that this was a retainer fee...they were recorded as "legal fees"! They were a payment to a lawyer for the work he did setting up the NDA and the money that he spent out of his own pocket for the NDA. What's supposedly illegal about that? I'm still waiting to hear the explanation for that.

Where do the business records state that is what the $35000 a month is for?

 

[para bellum]

A lie...?

Not a lie, read the indictment for his tax evasion.

He has never even been to Ukraine.

 

[para bellum]

Where do the business records state that is what the $35000 a month is for?

The GL coding was legal expenses. The invoices and the notation on the checks said retainer.

It doesn't matter because that is not falsifying anything. Retainer agreements do not have to be written, the amount is whatever the parties agree on, and legal expenses are how you record payments to attorneys.

Trump was paying hundreds of thousands in legal expenses in 2017 on multiple matters.

 

[Man With A Plan]

Where do the business records state that is what the $35000 a month is for?

That's what they were recorded as. Legal fees. So why is the payment of a lawyer to set up a completely legal NDA NOT a legal fee?

 

[AntonToo]

You don't seem to grasp the intent of the statute, Anton! It's designed to counter criminals that would leave New York because they were facing arrest...stay out of the State until the statute of limitations for that crime had expired...at which point they would return with immunity from prosecution. That doesn't describe Donald Trump in the slightest. Not only is he IN New York on multiple occaisions...he's so well known that his whereabouts would never be a secret. You don't have the grounds to extend the statute of limitations against Trump.

And the only reason Bragg is claiming that he does is that he desperately wants to reanimate cases that other DA's chose not to prosecute but can't do so unless he shoehorns them onto an unnamed "felony" by claiming election fraud too place. It's all bullshit!

Case law I’ve provided you says you are full of bs.

Man claimed 100+ separate visits to NY over 8 years and appellate court ruled that everyday he wasn’t in NY tallied up to continuous absence under this statute of limitations.

How many times same thing has to be explained for you to get it?

 

[AntonToo]

That makes absolutely no sense. Campaign spending was deducted as a business expense? Why hasn't that been charged? The Manhattan DA's office got Trump's tax returns in 2021.

Do you know that a candidate is not limited to what he spends on his own campaign?

Manhattan DA named Bragg?

You are asking why Bragg didn’t charge him?

He did charge him, with the most obvious, easiest to convict charges, as it often happens.

 

[Care4all]

That's what they were recorded as. Legal fees. So why is the payment of a lawyer to set up a completely legal NDA NOT a legal fee?

Legal fees for what, in 2017?

In 2016, Michael Cohen was on Trump's payroll as a salary employee....any legal work he did for Trump was already paid for in 2016. What Cohen was owed by trump, is solely the reimbursement for the $130,000 and the $50,000 for Red Finch work, that Cohen fronted and then turned in as a business expense.....

As when I turned in my expenses, the company reimbursed me in full, the week I turned my expenses in....with my expenses listed under the month I paid for them on their books and what the expense was for....expenses that were tax deductible as business expenses were kept separate from expenses that were not tax deductible for the business...etc.

All of the hand written notes of Allen Weisselberg on the expense invoice Cohen turned in for the $130000 and the $50000, spells out how the Trump organization was going to pay him back for those expenditures.....without recording the Trump Org reimbursement as a payment for an NDA, and Red Finch expense, by falsifying and disguising the NDA/Red Finch as a monthly salary/legal fees on the books for the following year.....$35000 a month for 12 months, doubling the actual business expense cost, to cover Michael's taxes that would be owed by him.

Why do you think ALL of that, was NOT falsifying Trump Org business records?

What advantage did Trump Org see themselves having by doubling the actual expense cost, and fudging their books?

 

[Care4all]

Do you know that a candidate is not limited to what he spends on his own campaign?

unlimited....as long as it is recorded on the books as a self funded campaign donation..... was the NDA recorded as a campaign donation or even recorded on his books as a business expense?

Nope! Not that has been shown!

 

[citygator]

You guys are funny. The defense rested and the prosecution put on a seemingly convincing case. I think the best Trump can hope for is either a hung jury by a few jurors who just dont want to disenfranchise 64M voters’ choice, even though he is a criminal, or hope for a Governor pardon “in the best interest of the country”. That second one is hilariously thin hopes.

We live in odd times.

 

[WorldWatcher]

That's what they were recorded as. Legal fees. So why is the payment of a lawyer to set up a completely legal NDA NOT a legal fee?

So let's say...

I have my attorney buy me a personal purchase of a Mercedes-AMG GT Roadster clocking in at $130,700 MSRP, which I trick out to about $150,000.

The attorney buys the car for me and I pay him back over 12 months "Taxing Up" the payments to cover income taxes for the attorney, plus a bonus, paying a total of $350,000 over the 12 months which the attorney invoices as "attorney services".
.
.
.
.
.
Does that transform the purchase of a personal car (non tax deductible) in to a business tax deduction for "attorney services" when routed through my business?

WW

 

[Man With A Plan]

Legal fees for what, in 2017?

In 2016, Michael Cohen was on Trump's payroll as a salary employee....any legal work he did for Trump was already paid for in 2016. What Cohen was owed by trump, is solely the reimbursement for the $130,000 and the $50,000 for Red Finch work, that Cohen fronted and then turned in as a business expense.....

As when I turned in my expenses, the company reimbursed me in full, the week I turned my expenses in....with my expenses listed under the month I paid for them on their books and what the expense was for....expenses that were tax deductible as business expenses were kept separate from expenses that were not tax deductible for the business...etc.

All of the hand written notes of Allen Weisselberg on the expense invoice Cohen turned in for the $130000 and the $50000, spells out how the Trump organization was going to pay him back for those expenditures.....without recording the Trump Org reimbursement as a payment for an NDA, and Red Finch expense, by falsifying and disguising the NDA/Red Finch as a monthly salary/legal fees on the books for the following year.....$35000 a month for 12 months, doubling the actual business expense cost, to cover Michael's taxes that would be owed by him.

Why do you think ALL of that, was NOT falsifying Trump Org business records?

What advantage did Trump Org see themselves having by doubling the actual expense cost, and fudging their books?

What the Trump Organization paid Cohen is a crime? How so? If they wanted to give him extra money how does that equate with business fraud? This makes no sense at all. Bragg is claiming that all of this is somehow criminal and it's not. Cohen was paid for legal work and that payment was put in the books as Legal Fees. The election was in November...the Trump Organization wouldn't be filing tax returns until months AFTER the election so it's ludicrous to claim that they were somehow "hiding" the payment for the NDA for political reasons which makes it illegal!

 

[Rawley]

All the early testimony, from Trump employees, made it clear the rules were the "Boss" gets told all, when it comes to finances as well. He's a cheap penny pincher, wanted no invoice to be paid without negotiating down from promised payment for the work. Any check signed over $10,000 had to be approved by him first, and testimony from all the workers that CFO Alan Weisselberg went over everything, every decision, with Trump, they spoke several times a day re: business expenses. Michael's reimbursement checks were for $35,000 a month for a year, totalling the $420k, and 9 were signed by Trump, the other months were signed by Eric Trump I believe....and the rule was, no check over $10,000 signed by his sons and others authorized can not go through without Trump being told exactly what the payment was for.... The payments signed by Eric were $35k checks, over the $10k limit....

Not a single one of Trump's employees testified he knew anything about the payment to Stormy

So Trump as a micro and macro hands on boss, was told, without any doubt, how the $35,000 a month checks for Cohen were calculated and determined.

Dude was signing the checks in the friggin checks in the Oval Office in the White House. Pretty sure he was not concentrating on check to his lawyer. No testified that he was told how the checks were calculated. Not one person. Not one person testified that Trump was told they were booking payments to his lawyer as legal expenses, Your "no doubt" is simply your TDS speaking

As a witness, Cohen identified his own hand written notes on the $50k for Red Finch expenditure plus the $130 k for Stormy NDA invoice where Alan Weisselberg wrote his hand written notes on how they were going to pay Cohen back....Alan used Cohen's hand written notes and type written NDA amount, doubling to cover Cohen's taxes plus the bonus, to come to the $420 k.

Cohen identifying his own writing put him in the room with Weisselberg, and showed that their business records were most certainly, intentionally falsified.

You are going to send the former PResident of the United states to prison for, at worst was a bookkeeping error, on the word of convicted serial perjurer COhen? Who has lied literally every single time he's been in court? Who admitted that he stole $60,000 from Trump? Really? No reasonable doubt? Seriously?

It was not a retainer fee as claimed, for work done monthly, in 2017. It was clearly, with the Weisselberg notes, repayment for Cohen 2016 NDA Payment to stormy Daniels, plus a couple of other expenses of his and bonus, for 2016....

It was written on the checks he signed, his only connection to the bookkeeping entry, that it was for fees for work done monthly in 2017? Who testified that they told him about this bookkeeping arrangement? No one.

look above.
I answered this in my opinion on your first question.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It doesn't matter because that is not falsifying anything.

Which is obviously wrong, as all the evidence and testimony showed.

 

[Seymour Flops]

As expected, the media is running story after story about how "strong" the case against Trump was, and how they predict a guilty verdict. That is the purpose of the long delay between the sides resting and the closing arguments. To condition the jury.

Will the TDS folk on here now abandon their doubts about the case and begin predicted a guilty verdict, or are they too smart to fall for it?

 

[WorldWatcher]

Democrats are sneaky as shit, but they do play the long game.

Who knew they could arrange for Barron to graduate on a certain date while his father's criminal trial was ongoing and the judge close court for the day to let him go.

Then to have Congress passing a law to standardize when Memorial Day was to be observed all because they knew in 2024 it would beak up the case to that the Jury would have a long weekend to have their minds polluted by the media.

Their manipulation of the calendar is despicable.

WW

 

[Care4all]

As expected, the media is running story after story about how "strong" the case against Trump was, and how they predict a guilty verdict. That is the purpose of the long delay between the sides resting and the closing arguments. To condition the jury.

Will the TDS folk on here now abandon their doubts about the case and begin predicted a guilty verdict, or are they too smart to fall for it?

No, our press isn't saying that...they have left open a hung jury possibility, and even a not guilty possibility. And they all say, that how the he jury sees it could be different....that you can not predict what they may do.

The jury was off Wednesday and Friday I believe because a jurist had asked in advance for it. That left only Thursday for closing arguments before the long holiday weekend.

They expect the closing arguments to take several days for both the prosecution and defense.

The closing arguments would have had only 1 day before the 4 day weekend, which would be unfair to the defendant ....sending the jury home with only hearing part of the prosecution and not any of the defense closing arguments at all. That is why the closing arguments were put off until after the long holiday. It is better for a jury to hear both sides of the closing arguments in successive days.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Who knew they could arrange for Barron to graduate on a certain date while his father's criminal trial was ongoing and the judge close court for the day to let him go.

Then to have Congress passing a law to standardize when Memorial Day was to be observed all because they knew in 2024 it would beak up the case to that the Jury would have a long weekend to have their minds polluted by the media.

The jury was off Wednesday and Friday I believe because a jurist had asked in advance for it. That left only Thursday for closing arguments before the long holiday weekend.

They expect the closing arguments to take several days for both the prosecution and defense.

The closing arguments would have had only 1 day before the 4 day weekend, which would be unfair to the defendant ....sending the jury home with only hearing part of the prosecution and not any of the defense closing arguments at all. That is why the closing arguments were put off until after the long holiday. It is better for a jury to hear both sides of the closing arguments in successive days.

Well, which is it? Barron's graduation, or "a jurist" asked for Friday off?"

 

[Care4all]

Cohen was paid for legal work and that payment was put in the books as Legal Fees.

Cohen was reimbursed for the hush money payment for Stormy's NDA that he fronted in 2016. The legal work he did in 2016 was covered by his payroll check. He was a salaried employee at the time to n 2016, and his legal work was already paid to him, through his job and payroll check.

The 2017 $35,000 a month payments to him was for the expense he fronted for Trump's NDA with Stormy. It is written down in two different pieces of evidence presented, and how they came to the $420,000 total/$35,000 a month for 12 months by upping for taxes he'd have to pay. The payments were not legal fees for 2017 legal work Cohen was doing in 2017 for Trump or the Trump organization.

the Trump Organization wouldn't be filing tax returns until months AFTER the election so it's ludicrous to claim that they were somehow "hiding" the payment for the NDA for political reasons which makes it illegal!

It makes no sense for the Trump Organization to pay Cohen double the $130,000 and pay him $260,000 for it, when the $130k could have been turned in as a business expense if it was one, for $130,000....And be done with it. Why play with the books and claim it was a retainer or upfront legal fees paid monthly to Cohen and cost the company double the amount, if it were not to cover up the hush money?

Not a single one of Trump's employees testified he knew anything about the payment to Stormy/]

they all testified he had to know, or have testified to make one believe that he had to know because of them describing how he micro managed.... he was hands on with his business expense. And why would Trump be paying Cohen $35k a month out of his account for LEGAL WORK done, when there was no legal work done? Can you explain that....?

[Dude was signing the checks in the friggin checks in the Oval Office in the White House. Pretty sure he was not concentrating on check to his lawyer. No testified that he was told how the checks were calculated. Not one person. Not one person testified that Trump was told they were booking payments to his lawyer as legal expenses, Your "no doubt" is simply your TDS speaking/tolole $60,000 from Trump? Really? No reasonable doubt? Seriously?/]

What do you actually think Trump thought he was paying Cohen, who no longer was working on Trump's payroll staff, $35000 a month for, when Trump was President and in D.C?

Cohen was working for the Trump org and paid a salary by payroll in 2016 and prior....coincidentally he made about $35000 a month when an employee. Why would they fire Cohen in 2016 after Trump went to Washington, to only rehire him as a freelancer?

It was written on the checks he signed, his only connection to the bookkeeping entry, that it was for fees for work done monthly in 2017? Who testified that they told him about this bookkeeping arrangement? No one.

Cohen didn't do any legal work for Trump while he was President in 2017, let alone $35000 a month worth of legal work.

Why do you believe it was for legal work done in 2017?


P.S. I messed up the quotes somehow....? There was one where it mentioned sending him to jail that I cut out, somehow???

Anyway, he's not going to go to jail, no matter how much some liberals on this site are salivating for it.
As you said, this is way too small to send a former President to prison for imo....

 

[Seymour Flops]

It makes no sense for the Trump Organization to pay Cohen double the $130,000 and pay him $260,000 for it, when the $130k could have been turned in as a business expense if it was one, for $130,000....And be done with it. Why play with the books and claim it was a retainer or upfront legal fees paid monthly to Cohen and cost the company double the amount, if it were not to cover up the hush money?

That's right, it makes no sense at all. When there is a claim that makes no sense, the next step is to consider the source of the claim.

Anyone claiming that happened, who is NOT a convicted perjurer?

 

[Care4all]

That's right, it makes no sense at all. When there is a claim that makes no sense, the next step is to consider the source of the claim.

Anyone claiming that happened, who is NOT a convicted perjurer?

We have it in writing....twice....two different trump employees, accountant/CFO....

who needs the witnesses?