Koch: I'm Fighting to Restore a Free Society

[bripat9643]

That Charles Koch. He's such a selfless man. Why can't people see that?

What we see is that all the dick sucking drones who attack him are commie hypocrites.

 

[Mustang]

That Charles Koch. He's such a selfless man. Why can't people see that?

What we see is that all the dick sucking drones who attack him are commie hypocrites.

LOL! You're the one who's goin' down on Koch.

 

[jasonnfree]

Very well said. This idiot however believes that jumping into a river to save a drowning child that you don't even know is a "purely selfish" act, so don't expect anything like a worthy response, you won't get one.

I guess we can assume anyone on the message board promoting pure capitalism is getting paid to do so.

You already do because you know you wouldn't ever promote any ideal that you didn't personally benefit from. Every Obama dick sucking drone in here is a tick on the ass of society.

We know for a fact that Obama is paying drones like you to disrupt forums like this one.

If you know this for a fact - Obama paying people for disrupting forums - why don't you reveal where to find this information? Looks to me like republicans could really make a big deal out of this. Maybe a bigger deal than the latest Chris Christie scandal. Especially if Obama is using taxpayer money for this.

 

[RandomVariable]

That Charles Koch. He's such a selfless man. Why can't people see that?

What we see is that all the dick sucking drones who attack him are commie hypocrites.

Let us say, for the sake of argument, that your point of view is correct. Do you not think that the manner in which you post demonstrates a certain lack of sensibility? Just saying.

 

[Bfgrn]

During the gilded age the standard of living for the common man improved faster than any other time in history. Do you think John D. Rockefeller got rich selling Kerosene only to rich people?

From 1800 to the 1920s, inequality increased more than a hundredfold. Then came the reversal: from the 1920s to 1980, it shrank back to levels not seen since the mid-19th century.

What utter horseshit. The government didn't even gather statistic on income or wealth before the 16th amendment was passed, so how would anyone know? Just about everything you believe about history is made up.

The "reversal" came at the end of the 1920s when tax rates went up to 90%. The result was a depression that lasted for 15 years.

Yeah, that income inequality is a terrible thing.

BTW, numskull, when a society becomes industrialized, people acquire vast fortunes. You can't have one without the other. You see, the rich people are the ones who own the factories that employ everyone and churn out all those products that millions of people can now afford to buy. Most of a wealthy person's money is tied up in investments - meaning it's tied up in factories and machinery that provides the middle class with jobs.

The marginal tax rate was 25% in 1929.

 

[Bfgrn]

That Charles Koch. He's such a selfless man. Why can't people see that?

Do you REALLY believe the people we are arguing with are capable of that?

bripat and friends...

 

[bripat9643]

From 1800 to the 1920s, inequality increased more than a hundredfold. Then came the reversal: from the 1920s to 1980, it shrank back to levels not seen since the mid-19th century.

What utter horseshit. The government didn't even gather statistic on income or wealth before the 16th amendment was passed, so how would anyone know? Just about everything you believe about history is made up.

The "reversal" came at the end of the 1920s when tax rates went up to 90%. The result was a depression that lasted for 15 years.

Yeah, that income inequality is a terrible thing.

BTW, numskull, when a society becomes industrialized, people acquire vast fortunes. You can't have one without the other. You see, the rich people are the ones who own the factories that employ everyone and churn out all those products that millions of people can now afford to buy. Most of a wealthy person's money is tied up in investments - meaning it's tied up in factories and machinery that provides the middle class with jobs.

The marginal tax rate was 25% in 1929.

Notice that your chart doesn't go below 1916, the year the 16th Amendment passed. Yet, you made claims about the period 1800 to 1920. Obviously, you're full of shit.

Also, your chart claims the economy boomed in the 1950s with a top marginal rate of 90%, but it doesn't mention the 1930s when the top marginal rate was 85% and unemployment was as high as 33%.

You theory doesn't hold water, numbnuts.

All your chart shows is that when tax rates are higher, people report less income. Furthermore, it's a chart of income, not wealth. Learn the difference.

 

[bripat9643]

That Charles Koch. He's such a selfless man. Why can't people see that?

Do you REALLY believe the people we are arguing with are capable of that?

bripat and friends...

 

[The T]

That Charles Koch. He's such a selfless man. Why can't people see that?

Do you REALLY believe the people we are arguing with are capable of that?

bripat and friends...

^^Is that supposed to mean something? I don't get it...

 

[bripat9643]

That Charles Koch. He's such a selfless man. Why can't people see that?

Do you REALLY believe the people we are arguing with are capable of that?

bripat and friends...

^^Is that supposed to mean something? I don't get it...

It means he's an idiot who thinks cartoons portray reality.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Do you REALLY believe the people we are arguing with are capable of that?

bripat and friends...

^^Is that supposed to mean something? I don't get it...

It means he's an idiot who thinks cartoons portray reality.

You have zero ability to judge reality little friend.

The nonsense you believe is amazing. No wonder I hate most Americans. Dumb as dog shit, especially those like you.

 

[bripat9643]

^^Is that supposed to mean something? I don't get it...

It means he's an idiot who thinks cartoons portray reality.

You have zero ability to judge reality little friend.

The nonsense you believe is amazing. No wonder I hate most Americans. Dumb as dog shit, especially those like you.

You believe that cartoon portrays reality, and you're claiming I have zero ability to judge reality? Talk about believing nonsense: you and your ilk believe that socialism can actually work and that government officials are honest and well intentioned and they care about your welfare.

I can't imagine any idea more stupid or obviously false than that.

 

[The T]

Do you REALLY believe the people we are arguing with are capable of that?

bripat and friends...

^^Is that supposed to mean something? I don't get it...

It means he's an idiot who thinks cartoons portray reality.

That's what I thought...thanks.

 

[Iceweasel]

Also, your chart claims the economy boomed in the 1950s with a top marginal rate of 90%, but it doesn't mention the 1930s when the top marginal rate was 85% and unemployment was as high as 33%.

Furthermore, liberals refuse to acknowledge that no one was actually paying 90% since you could afford a half assed accountant to take advantage of the many loopholes.

With lower rates and loopholes closed more taxes came in. Plus, they won't acknowledge that the US had vary little competition after the war since some of the major players were rebuilding their countries. Accuracy is not their goal.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

It means he's an idiot who thinks cartoons portray reality.

You have zero ability to judge reality little friend.

The nonsense you believe is amazing. No wonder I hate most Americans. Dumb as dog shit, especially those like you.

You believe that cartoon portrays reality, and you're claiming I have zero ability to judge reality? Talk about believing nonsense: you and your ilk believe that socialism can actually work and that government officials are honest and well intentioned and they care about your welfare.

I can't imagine any idea more stupid or obviously false than that.

I said nothing about a graphic, and nothing of the kind. What you can imagine is nothing that matters.

And Socialism does work. It's just another economic system among many. The fact that it makes you wet your pants concerns me not in the slightest since you are a very stupid child.

 

[bripat9643]

You have zero ability to judge reality little friend.

The nonsense you believe is amazing. No wonder I hate most Americans. Dumb as dog shit, especially those like you.

You believe that cartoon portrays reality, and you're claiming I have zero ability to judge reality? Talk about believing nonsense: you and your ilk believe that socialism can actually work and that government officials are honest and well intentioned and they care about your welfare.

I can't imagine any idea more stupid or obviously false than that.

I said nothing about a graphic, and nothing of the kind. What you can imagine is nothing that matters.

And Socialism does work. It's just another economic system among many. The fact that it makes you wet your pants concerns me not in the slightest since you are a very stupid child.

You chimed in just after the cartoon was posted that was used to describe me and then claim I don't understand reality.

Socialism doesn't work. There are only two fundamental types of economy: the government controlled economy or they privately controlled economy. Economists have shown time and time again that government control doesn't work.

 

[Old Rocks]

"It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners"
Albert Camus

Spreading "fundamental concepts of dignity, respect, equality before the law and personal freedom"...KOCH style...

ENVIRONMENTAL VIOLATIONS & POLLUTION

• In 2000, the Clinton administration leveled a 97-count indictment against Koch Industries for covering up the discharge of 91 tons of benzene, a carcinogen, from its refinery in Corpus Christi, Texas. The company was liable for $350 million in fines; 4 Koch employees faced up to 35 years in prison. “The Koch Petroleum Group eventually pleaded guilty to one criminal charge of covering up environmental violations, including the falsification of documents, and paid a twenty-million-dollar fine” (Jane Mayer, “Covert Operations”, The New Yorker, August 30, 2010).

• The federal government sued Koch in 1995 over a reported 300 oil spills at pipelines owned by the company, which dumped an estimated 3 million gallons of oil into lakes and streams in 6 states. In 2000, Koch settled the case and agreed to pay $30 million in civil penalties.

• “In 1999, a jury found Koch Industries guilty of negligence and malice in the deaths of two Texas teen-agers in an explosion that resulted from a leaky underground butane pipeline” (Mayer). See the National Transportation Safety Board’s report on the accident.

• A jury found Koch Industries guilty in 1999 of stealing millions of gallons of oil from public and Indian lands through fraudulent mismeasuring. This concluded a 20-year long legal battle between Charles and David Koch and their estranged brother, Bill Koch, who revealed the scheme and spearheaded the lawsuit. See the 60 Minutes story about the case.

• The University of Massachusetts at Amherst’s Political Economy Research Institute released a study this year that named Koch Industries one of the top ten air polluters in the United States.

Wbat does any of that have to do with equality before the law?
You should be on your knees offering to service both Koch brothers for all the good they've done for this country. If you lived a thousand years you wouldn't have achieved one millionth of what they have.

LOL. Hey buddy, you haven't left any room for anyone else in that position

 

[PaintMyHouse]

You believe that cartoon portrays reality, and you're claiming I have zero ability to judge reality? Talk about believing nonsense: you and your ilk believe that socialism can actually work and that government officials are honest and well intentioned and they care about your welfare.

I can't imagine any idea more stupid or obviously false than that.

I said nothing about a graphic, and nothing of the kind. What you can imagine is nothing that matters.

And Socialism does work. It's just another economic system among many. The fact that it makes you wet your pants concerns me not in the slightest since you are a very stupid child.

You chimed in just after the cartoon was posted that was used to describe me and then claim I don't understand reality.

Socialism doesn't work. There are only two fundamental types of economy: the government controlled economy or they privately controlled economy. Economists have shown time and time again that government control doesn't work.

Go tell your masters your arguments just won't cut it anymore. What a moron you are.

 

[Bfgrn]

What utter horseshit. The government didn't even gather statistic on income or wealth before the 16th amendment was passed, so how would anyone know? Just about everything you believe about history is made up.

The "reversal" came at the end of the 1920s when tax rates went up to 90%. The result was a depression that lasted for 15 years.

Yeah, that income inequality is a terrible thing.

BTW, numskull, when a society becomes industrialized, people acquire vast fortunes. You can't have one without the other. You see, the rich people are the ones who own the factories that employ everyone and churn out all those products that millions of people can now afford to buy. Most of a wealthy person's money is tied up in investments - meaning it's tied up in factories and machinery that provides the middle class with jobs.

The marginal tax rate was 25% in 1929.

Notice that your chart doesn't go below 1916, the year the 16th Amendment passed. Yet, you made claims about the period 1800 to 1920. Obviously, you're full of shit.

Also, your chart claims the economy boomed in the 1950s with a top marginal rate of 90%, but it doesn't mention the 1930s when the top marginal rate was 85% and unemployment was as high as 33%.

You theory doesn't hold water, numbnuts.

All your chart shows is that when tax rates are higher, people report less income. Furthermore, it's a chart of income, not wealth. Learn the difference.

FDR and the New Deal were a HUGE success.

Top Five Years for GDP Expansion:

1942, +18.5%
1941, +17.1%
1943, +16.4%
1936, +13.0%
1934, +10.9%

Top Five Years for GDP Contraction:

1932, -13.1%
1946, -10.9%
1930, -8.6%
1931, -6.5%
2009, -3.5%



The greatest yearly increase in GDP occurred during the New Deal, AND, the LARGEST DROP IN UNEPLOYMENT in America history occurred during the New Deal...


Census document HS-29 (available in PDF). Quoting directly from Census data, here are the unemployment rates and total number of official unemployed at the beginning and end of the presidential terms since the Great Depression:

ROOSEVELT PRE-WWII NEW DEAL
1932 Unemployment Rate: 23.6% (12.8 million total unemployed)
1940 Unemployment Rate: 14.6% (8.1 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: -9.0
Total unemployment percentage change: -36.7%

ROOSEVELT WWII
1941 Unemployment Rate: 9.9% (5.5 million total unemployed)
1944 Unemployment Rate: 1.2% (670,000 total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: -8.7
Total unemployment percentage change: -87.9%

TRUMAN
1945 Unemployment Rate: 1.9% (1.0 million total unemployed)
1952 Unemployment Rate: 3.0% (1.8 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: +1.1
Total unemployment percentage change: +81.0%

EISENHOWER
1953 Unemployment Rate: 2.9% (1.8 million total unemployed)
1960 Unemployment Rate: 5.5% (3.8 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: +2.6%
Total unemployment percentage change: +110.03%

KENNEDY
1961 Unemployment Rate: 6.7% (4.7 million total unemployed)
1963 Unemployment Rate: 5.7% (4.0 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: -1.0%
Total unemployment percentage change: -13.6%

JOHNSON
1964 Unemployment Rate: 5.2% (3.7 million total unemployed)
1968 Unemployment Rate: 3.6% (2.8 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: -1.6%
Total unemployment percentage change: -25.6%

NIXON
1969 Unemployment Rate: 3.5% (2.8 million total unemployed)
1974 Unemployment Rate: 5.6% (5.1 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: +2.1%
Total unemployment percentage change: +82.0%

FORD
1975 Unemployment Rate: 8.5% (7.9 million total unemployed)
1976 Unemployment Rate: 7.7% (7.4 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: -0.8%
Total unemployment percentage change: -6.6%

CARTER
1977 Unemployment Rate: 7.1% (6.9 million total unemployed)
1980 Unemployment Rate: 7.1% (7.6 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: 0.0
Total unemployment percentage change: +9.24%

REAGAN
1981 Unemployment Rate: 7.6% (8.2 million total unemployed)
1988 Unemployment Rate: 5.5% (6.7 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: -2.1%
Total unemployment percentage change: -19.0%

BUSH I
1989 Unemployment Rate: 5.3% (6.5 million total unemployed)
1992 Unemployment Rate: 7.5% (9.6 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: +2.2
Total unemployment percentage change: +47.2%

CLINTON
1993 Unemployment Rate: 6.9% (8.9 million total unemployed)
2000 Unemployment Rate: 4.0% (5.6 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change -2.9
Total unemployment percentage change: -36.3%

As you can see, in terms of the unemployment rate - that is, the percentage of the total workforce not working - the pre-WWII New Deal era saw the single largest drop in American history. Yes, I'll say that again for conservatives, just to make sure they get it: The PRE-WWII New Deal era from 1933-1940 - not the WWII era - saw the largest drop in the unemployment rate in American history. And by the way, that even includes the recession of 1937-1938.

Now, it is certainly true that the percentage drop of total unemployed was bigger in WWII than it was in the pre-WWII New Deal era. But as the data show, even by that metric, the pre-WWII New Deal era saw the second largest percentage drop in total unemployed in the 20th century, going from 12.8 million unemployed in Roosevelt's first year in office to 8.1 million unemployed at the end of his second term in 1940. That's a 36.7 percent drop - larger than the Clinton era (36.3%) and, yes conservatives, larger than the Reagan era (a mere 19%). At the absolute minimum, that would suggests the New Deal was a positive - not negative - economic force (and empirically more positive than, say, Reagan's free-market agenda).

These are the hard and fast numbers conservatives would like us all to forget with their claim that history proves massive spending packages like the New Deal will supposedly harm our economy.

The Forgotten Math: Pre-WWII New Deal Saw Biggest Drop In Unemployment Rate in American History

And you keep forgetting that your right wing austerity approach doesn't work. FDR found that out. FDR had his own right wing regressives to contend with, HERE is where that led.

The Recession of 1937–1938 was a temporary reversal of the pre-war 1933 to 1941 economic recovery from the Great Depression in the United States. Economists disagree about the causes of this downturn, but agree that government austerity reversed the recovery. wiki

 

[Spoonman]

We need more people like them to stand up for OUR FREEDOMS

But, I thinks it's too late

when you see our citizens defending this President and his wasteful, costly, entitlement called, ObamaCare...Or the fact someone like him with no experience in anything can be elected in the FIRST PLACE......I think we are history as a Free country and a Free people...

It's been painful to watch

now is the time to fight back. because people have been pushed too far. whether is over religious rights, gun rights and a host of other personal rights. obamacare has not delivered . libs are trying to spin it but it doesn't matter.

Government has become and organization of appeasers. in order to stay in power they will give the people their opiates. they will placate the squeaky wheel. so we need to start squeaking louder. libs are great at whining. libs are great at forming groups who get their voices heard. they control the media, most of it anyway. now is the time for us to make our voices heard