Your Thoughts On Aipac, Please :)

[Book of Jeremiah]

montelatici, Jeremiah, et al,

Well, I'm not sure this really addresses our friend montelatici's concern. The correlation between the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) and the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (HLF) is very slight. Where AIPAC is a legal entity existing as a “America’s pro-Israel lobby,” (as previously demonstrated in Post #28), the HLF was a subsidiary terrorist support mechanism that had the sole purpose for providing material support to HAMAS (a designated Terrorist Organization)(18 U.S. Code § 2339A - Providing material support to terrorists). The FBI Investigation disclosed that HLF was a "fundraising arm for the Palestine Committee in the U.S. created by the Muslim Brotherhood to support Hamas."

"During the 1990s, the Muslim Brotherhood created a support network in the United States to help Hamas politically and financially. It was called the Palestine Committee. According to documents seized by the FBI by some of the committee’s members, that committee included some prominent Muslim American political activists, and the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) – perhaps the most influential Muslim American political group." ( CAIR’s Identity Crisis: Defending Civil Rights or the Palestinian (Hamas) Struggle? Posted on August 11, 2014 )

SOURCES:

• FBI Dallas Division Release: Federal Judge Hands Downs Sentences in Holy Land Foundation Case 27 May 2009
• FBI New Release: Home• News • Stories • 2008 • November • Holy Land Foundation Convictions: No Cash for Terror --- Convictions Returned in Holy Land Case

Note: Name Confusion: There was once a pro-Jewish Lobby in the US known as the "American Palestine Committee" (APC) --- which was a pre-AIPAC type organization with the purpose as a political lobby to influence American policy towards the establishment of a Jewish national home. The APC dissolved in 1948 with with the recognition of the new state of Israel. It should not be confused with the HAMAS-Palestine Committee mentioned about. (A couple of years ago, I was caught in a heated debate about the role the APC played prior to the implementation of GA/RES/181(II). It turned out that we were not on the same sheet of music. I don't want an instant replay of that disintegrating discussion.)​

Stop trying to defend the indefensible, Rocco, you are making a fool of yourself.

Reverentially,
M

Thank you, Roccor! Wasn't CAIR ( Council of American Islamic Relations) listed as one of the 108 un-indicted co - conspirators in the outcome of the HLF Trials? Wasn't the entire list of these unindicted ones - all 108 un-indicted co-conspirators put on hold for further action by DOJ - headed up by Eric Holder? Nothing has been dropped to my knowledge so with that Roccor how many of the Democrats on that list made complaints , voiced their opinions publicly against CAIR since 2009? How many times have they done it? 10? 15? How about 0? How many of the Democrats that you listed here even once made a complaint against the other 107 co- conspirators such as ISNA, Muslim Brotherhood, etc. 10 times? 15 times? How about 0? How many of these Democrats have complained to DOJ about Eric Holder not doing his job in regards to going forward with the 108 un - indicted co- conspirators listed in the Holyland foundation Trial? All of them? 5 of them? None of them? Not even once? Not a word? Do tell us.

I believe the answer would help "shed some light" on what is going on here. Thank you, RoccoR.

- Jeremiah

(OBSERVATION)

Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, and trial exhibits show the Brotherhood created the Palestine Committee. CAIR officials adamantly deny any involvement with either Hamas or the Muslim Brotherhood. The [Assistant Attorney General Ronald] Weich letter, however, shows that the Department of Justice has not wavered in its conclusion that the internal records it possesses prove a connection.

It echoes a letter last spring from an FBI congressional liaison explaining why Bureau policy bars communication with CAIR outside of a criminal investigation. In that letter, Richard C. Powers, an assistant director in the FBI's office of Congressional Affairs, said evidence "demonstrated a relationship among CAIR, individual CAIR founders (including its current President Emeritus and its Executive Director) and the Palestine Committee."
SOURCE: DOJ: CAIR's Unindicted Co-Conspirator Status Legit

(COMMENT)

There are actually over 300 “unindicted co-conspirators” relative to the HLF Case. The two most prominent names of course are the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) and the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA). In THE FEDERAL COURTS LAW REVIEW (FCLR) 1, Section II.E.1, it is stated, “In order to name an individual as an unindicted co-conspirator, the presiding judge must agree that the individual qualifies for this designation by finding that his or her statements or acts were in furtherance of the alleged conspiracy.”

[II.A.1] The term “unindicted co-conspirator” refers to any person who allegedly “agreed with others to violate the law but who is not being charged with an offense and who, consequently, will not be tried or sentenced for his criminal conduct.” The law permits admission of unindicted co-conspirators’ statements and acts performed during and in furtherance of the conspiracy as evidence in determining the guilt or innocence of the indicted conspirators. Prosecutors often have enough evidence to indict these individuals, but instead name them as unindicted co-conspirators for a variety of strategic reasons.

Being named an “unindicted co-conspirator” is essentially a "Free Get out of Jail Card;" but it implies guilt through admission.

Most Respectfully,
R

Right. Yet when CAIR appealed to a Texas judge to have their name removed from that list the judge denied them that request and their name remained on it. Their appeal was on the grounds that it harmed their reputation! If that isn't audacity please tell me what is, RoccoR.

I am aware of the HLF trials and that all counts were found "GUILTY" - and the reason I brought it up is because the OP seems to be - in my opinion - straining a gnat while swallowing a camel in one gulp! To accuse AIPAC of what is totally untrue while turning a blind eye to the real threats to Americans - to those who have indeed been found tied to matters that very strong evidence to be "Seriously concerned"......... it just does not sit well with me, RoccoR. Not one discussion on the serious threats facing America such as MB, CAIR and ISNA and yet we're going to put AIPAC on trial here? ha! ha! I do not think so!

I appreciate your reply. I appreciate you being here on USMB, RoccoR. Thank you.

 

[montelatici]

this entire thread sounds like 5 yr olds fighting over a CandyLand game.
Can ANYONE give me examples of Pro-Israel legislation passed with the influence of AIPAC?

For that matter -- Rocco posted a list of ANTI-ISRAEL votes by prominent Leftist Dems. WHat WERE those votes on? I seriously doubt that any policy or legislation directly benefitting Israel ONLY has been passed in recent years other than funding for Iron Dome and weapons contracts.

And if they are BURIED in a general Defense Authorization Budget, who is to say that they PENNIES for Israel influenced the vote? This is all smoke and furor over nothing.

Israel should NEVER be a welfare client of the USA. But when their vested interests align with ours -- I'm not blaming Joooooossss for the decision.. So if AIPAC calls for more Iranian sanctions --- I'm concerned with the ISSUE --- not who is supporting it. Same with pronouncing Hesbollah and Hamas as terrorist organizations.

There is really no evidence to ANY of the accusations that AIPAC is successful in promoting Israel only interests politically. And there is NOTHING wrong with promoting technology exchange and commerce with the nation of Israel in general..

If all you haters expect that Israel would EVER be sanctioned or blockaded or blackballed if only lobbyists were silenced -- you are daft and deluded..

US Vetoes at the UN Security Council in support of Israel since 1972

Condemning Israeli settlements Established Since 1967 as Illegal
S/2011/24
February 18, 2011

Calling Israel To Halt Gaza Operation
S/2006/878
November 11, 2006

Calling Israel To Halt Gaza Operation
S/2006/508
July 13, 2006

Calling Israel To Halt Gaza Operation
S/2004/783
October 5, 2004

Condemning Israel for Killing Hamas Leader Ahmed Yassin
S/2004/240
March 25, 2004

Seeking to Bar Israel from Extending Security Fence
S/2003/980
October 14, 2003

Demanding Israel Halt Threats to Expel Yasser Arafat
S/2003/891
September 16, 2003

Condemning Israeli Killing UN employees of World Food Programme
S/2002/1385
December 20, 2002

Demanding Immediate Cessation of Israeli-Palestinian Violence
S/2001/1199
December 14, 2001

Calling for UN Observers Force in West Bank & Gaza
S/2001/270
March 27, 2001

Demanding Israel Cease Construction of Settlements in East Jerusalem
S/1997/241
March 21, 1997

Calling Israeli authorities to Refrain from All Settlement Activity
S/1997/199
March 7, 1997

Confirming Israeli Expropriation of Land in East Jerusalem as Invalid
S/1995/394
May 17, 1995

Commission to Investigate Murder of Seven Palestinian Workers
S/21326
May 31, 1990

Deploring Israeli Policies and Practices in the Occupied Territories
S/20945/Rev.1
November 7, 1989

Condemning Israeli Policies and Practices in the Occupied Territories
S/20677
June 9, 1989

Deploring Israeli Policies and Practices in the Occupied Territories
S/20463
February 17, 1989

Deploring Israeli Attack Against Lebanese Territory on December 9
S/20322
December 14, 1988
Condemning Invasion by Israeli Forces of Southern Lebanon
S/19868
May 10, 1988

Urging Israel to Abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention
S/19780
April 15, 1988

Calling on Israel to Accept Applicability of 4th Geneva Convention
S/19466
February 1, 1988

Deploring Repeated Israeli Attacks Against Lebanese Territory
S/19434
January 18, 1988

Condemning Israeli Interception of Libyan Plane
S/17796/Rev.1
February 6, 1986

Calling on Israel to Respect Muslim Holy Places
S/17769/Rev.1
January 30, 1986

Condemning Israeli Practices Against Civilians in Southern Lebanon
S/17730/Rev.2
January 17, 1986

Deploring Repressive Measures by Israel Against Arab Population
S/17459
September 13, 1985

Condemning Israeli Actions Against Civilians in Southern Lebanon
S/17000
March 12, 1985

Calls for Israel Respect of Lebanese Sovereignty & Independence
S/16732
September 6, 1984

Determining Israeli Settlement Construction as Illegal
S/15895
August 2, 1983

Condemning Israel for Not Implementing Res.'s 516 & 517
S/15347/Rev.1
August 6, 1982

Demanding Immediate Cessation of Hostilities in Lebanon
S/15255/Rev 2
June 26, 1982

Calling on Israel to Withdraw Forces from Lebanon
S/15185
June 8, 1982

Condemning Aggression on the Temple Mount
S/14985
April 20, 1982

Denouncing Israeli Contravention of Fourth Geneva Convention
S/14943
April 2, 1982

Calling for Nullification of Israeli Occupation of Golan Heights
S/14832/Rev.1
January 20, 1982

Exercise of Inalienable Rights by the Palestinians
S/13911
April 30, 1980

Affirming Palestinian Right of Return and Sovereignty in Palestine
S/12119
June 29, 1976

Calling on Israel to Uphold Protection of Holy Places
S/12022
March 25, 1976

Calling on Israel to Withdraw from All Palestinian Territories
S/11940
January 26, 1976

Condemning Israel for Air Strikes Against Lebanon
S/11898
December 8, 1975

Deploring Israel's Continued Occupation of Palestinian Territories
S/10974
July 26, 1973

Complaint over Israeli Aggression Against Lebanon
S/10784
September 10, 1972

U.S. Vetoes of UN Security Council Resolutions Critical to Israel Jewish Virtual Library

 

[montelatici]

montelatici, Jeremiah, et al,

Well, I'm not sure this really addresses our friend montelatici's concern. The correlation between the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) and the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (HLF) is very slight. Where AIPAC is a legal entity existing as a “America’s pro-Israel lobby,” (as previously demonstrated in Post #28), the HLF was a subsidiary terrorist support mechanism that had the sole purpose for providing material support to HAMAS (a designated Terrorist Organization)(18 U.S. Code § 2339A - Providing material support to terrorists). The FBI Investigation disclosed that HLF was a "fundraising arm for the Palestine Committee in the U.S. created by the Muslim Brotherhood to support Hamas."

"During the 1990s, the Muslim Brotherhood created a support network in the United States to help Hamas politically and financially. It was called the Palestine Committee. According to documents seized by the FBI by some of the committee’s members, that committee included some prominent Muslim American political activists, and the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) – perhaps the most influential Muslim American political group." ( CAIR’s Identity Crisis: Defending Civil Rights or the Palestinian (Hamas) Struggle? Posted on August 11, 2014 )

SOURCES:

• FBI Dallas Division Release: Federal Judge Hands Downs Sentences in Holy Land Foundation Case 27 May 2009
• FBI New Release: Home• News • Stories • 2008 • November • Holy Land Foundation Convictions: No Cash for Terror --- Convictions Returned in Holy Land Case

Note: Name Confusion: There was once a pro-Jewish Lobby in the US known as the "American Palestine Committee" (APC) --- which was a pre-AIPAC type organization with the purpose as a political lobby to influence American policy towards the establishment of a Jewish national home. The APC dissolved in 1948 with with the recognition of the new state of Israel. It should not be confused with the HAMAS-Palestine Committee mentioned about. (A couple of years ago, I was caught in a heated debate about the role the APC played prior to the implementation of GA/RES/181(II). It turned out that we were not on the same sheet of music. I don't want an instant replay of that disintegrating discussion.)​

Stop trying to defend the indefensible, Rocco, you are making a fool of yourself.

Reverentially,
M

Thank you, Roccor! Wasn't CAIR ( Council of American Islamic Relations) listed as one of the 108 un-indicted co - conspirators in the outcome of the HLF Trials? Wasn't the entire list of these unindicted ones - all 108 un-indicted co-conspirators put on hold for further action by DOJ - headed up by Eric Holder? Nothing has been dropped to my knowledge so with that Roccor how many of the Democrats on that list made complaints , voiced their opinions publicly against CAIR since 2009? How many times have they done it? 10? 15? How about 0? How many of the Democrats that you listed here even once made a complaint against the other 107 co- conspirators such as ISNA, Muslim Brotherhood, etc. 10 times? 15 times? How about 0? How many of these Democrats have complained to DOJ about Eric Holder not doing his job in regards to going forward with the 108 un - indicted co- conspirators listed in the Holyland foundation Trial? All of them? 5 of them? None of them? Not even once? Not a word? Do tell us.

I believe the answer would help "shed some light" on what is going on here. Thank you, RoccoR.

- Jeremiah

(OBSERVATION)

Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, and trial exhibits show the Brotherhood created the Palestine Committee. CAIR officials adamantly deny any involvement with either Hamas or the Muslim Brotherhood. The [Assistant Attorney General Ronald] Weich letter, however, shows that the Department of Justice has not wavered in its conclusion that the internal records it possesses prove a connection.

It echoes a letter last spring from an FBI congressional liaison explaining why Bureau policy bars communication with CAIR outside of a criminal investigation. In that letter, Richard C. Powers, an assistant director in the FBI's office of Congressional Affairs, said evidence "demonstrated a relationship among CAIR, individual CAIR founders (including its current President Emeritus and its Executive Director) and the Palestine Committee."
SOURCE: DOJ: CAIR's Unindicted Co-Conspirator Status Legit

(COMMENT)

There are actually over 300 “unindicted co-conspirators” relative to the HLF Case. The two most prominent names of course are the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) and the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA). In THE FEDERAL COURTS LAW REVIEW (FCLR) 1, Section II.E.1, it is stated, “In order to name an individual as an unindicted co-conspirator, the presiding judge must agree that the individual qualifies for this designation by finding that his or her statements or acts were in furtherance of the alleged conspiracy.”

[II.A.1] The term “unindicted co-conspirator” refers to any person who allegedly “agreed with others to violate the law but who is not being charged with an offense and who, consequently, will not be tried or sentenced for his criminal conduct.” The law permits admission of unindicted co-conspirators’ statements and acts performed during and in furtherance of the conspiracy as evidence in determining the guilt or innocence of the indicted conspirators. Prosecutors often have enough evidence to indict these individuals, but instead name them as unindicted co-conspirators for a variety of strategic reasons.

Being named an “unindicted co-conspirator” is essentially a "Free Get out of Jail Card;" but it implies guilt through admission.

Most Respectfully,
R

Right. Yet when CAIR appealed to a Texas judge to have their name removed from that list the judge denied them that request and their name remained on it. Their appeal was on the grounds that it harmed their reputation! If that isn't audacity please tell me what is, RoccoR.

I am aware of the HLF trials and that all counts were found "GUILTY" - and the reason I brought it up is because the OP seems to be - in my opinion - straining a gnat while swallowing a camel in one gulp! To accuse AIPAC of what is totally untrue while turning a blind eye to the real threats to Americans - to those who have indeed been found tied to matters that very strong evidence to be "Seriously concerned"......... it just does not sit well with me, RoccoR. Not one discussion on the serious threats facing America such as MB, CAIR and ISNA and yet we're going to put AIPAC on trial here? ha! ha! I do not think so!

I appreciate your reply. I appreciate you being here on USMB, RoccoR. Thank you.

If America pursued an even handed policy with respect to the Palestinian situation and stopped supporting Arab dictators friendly to the U.S., there would be far fewer threats to the U.S.

As a wise man once said:

"Muslims do not “hate our freedom,” but rather, they hate our policies."

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Muslims are in the streets of Europe with signs death to the 'juice" and death to freedom. Your wise man must be held up in a cave on Mars somewhere......

If America were any more even handed with respect to the arab situation and Israel - I would hate to think where that would leave Israel not to mention America. If it were not for my faith in knowing Who keeps her - I'd say the Med sea - but as I know God is able - I will not go down that road. You are so far from reality it is not even funny, Montelatici.

Go have a look at ISIS and focus on reality instead of faux stories on AIPAC.

 

[montelatici]

How many states that hold millions of people in gulags does the U.S. support? American Israel Firsters like you are afflicted by cognitive dissonance, well beyond being far from reality.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Oh please. This Israel firster thing is another lame attack meant to derail the discussion here which has thoroughly exposed you as one not interested in truth but rather projecting an image that simply will not work for me. I'm a God firster. Make a note of it, Montelatici. I'm for God first. I trust in God. You trust in whoever is telling you what you want to hear. We're miles apart on the issues and with good reason. I'm able to see this thing for what it is and you are not.

Like I said, Go read the stories on ISIS. AIPAC is a non issue in the scope of the worlds pressing matters. Seriously. It is time to face reality. If that is you in that avatar you are not getting any younger here. Redeem the time.

 

[pbel]

How many states that hold millions of people in gulags does the U.S. support? American Israel Firsters like you are afflicted by cognitive dissonance, well beyond being far from reality.

Frankly it goes well beyond dissonance, I think its an understandable mass psychoses caused by the stress of living within hostile environments for a millennia culminating in the holocaust...

Israel was the result, born of psychoses and fear it acts thusly...

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Mass psychoses began in 622 A.D. The cure is Jesus Christ.

Keep in mind that Voltaire offered his doctor a monetary fortune if he could guarantee him 6 more months because he realized albeit too late that he was ruled by Satan his entire life and for that was soon to be in hell. His greatest regret choosing the wrong ruler over his own life's choices. Be wise and do not follow in his footsteps, Pbel. As to the matter of Israel............

The problem is not Israel. The problem is with people who have a problem with Israel. ( or the Jews) Eventually there will be an outcome and not the one you'd prefer or expect. Better for everyone to leave Israel alone and stop slandering her. Have you not seen what ISIS is doing? No comment for those beheading children? Wrong argument? Not important? What would be your reason for avoiding such horror while focusing on tiny Israel?

 

[flacaltenn]

this entire thread sounds like 5 yr olds fighting over a CandyLand game.
Can ANYONE give me examples of Pro-Israel legislation passed with the influence of AIPAC?

For that matter -- Rocco posted a list of ANTI-ISRAEL votes by prominent Leftist Dems. WHat WERE those votes on? I seriously doubt that any policy or legislation directly benefitting Israel ONLY has been passed in recent years other than funding for Iron Dome and weapons contracts.

And if they are BURIED in a general Defense Authorization Budget, who is to say that they PENNIES for Israel influenced the vote? This is all smoke and furor over nothing.

Israel should NEVER be a welfare client of the USA. But when their vested interests align with ours -- I'm not blaming Joooooossss for the decision.. So if AIPAC calls for more Iranian sanctions --- I'm concerned with the ISSUE --- not who is supporting it. Same with pronouncing Hesbollah and Hamas as terrorist organizations.

There is really no evidence to ANY of the accusations that AIPAC is successful in promoting Israel only interests politically. And there is NOTHING wrong with promoting technology exchange and commerce with the nation of Israel in general..

If all you haters expect that Israel would EVER be sanctioned or blockaded or blackballed if only lobbyists were silenced -- you are daft and deluded..

US Vetoes at the UN Security Council in support of Israel since 1972

Condemning Israeli settlements Established Since 1967 as Illegal
S/2011/24
February 18, 2011

Calling Israel To Halt Gaza Operation
S/2006/878
November 11, 2006

Calling Israel To Halt Gaza Operation
S/2006/508
July 13, 2006

Calling Israel To Halt Gaza Operation
S/2004/783
October 5, 2004

Condemning Israel for Killing Hamas Leader Ahmed Yassin
S/2004/240
March 25, 2004

Seeking to Bar Israel from Extending Security Fence
S/2003/980
October 14, 2003

Demanding Israel Halt Threats to Expel Yasser Arafat
S/2003/891
September 16, 2003

Condemning Israeli Killing UN employees of World Food Programme
S/2002/1385
December 20, 2002

Demanding Immediate Cessation of Israeli-Palestinian Violence
S/2001/1199
December 14, 2001

Calling for UN Observers Force in West Bank & Gaza
S/2001/270
March 27, 2001

Demanding Israel Cease Construction of Settlements in East Jerusalem
S/1997/241
March 21, 1997

Calling Israeli authorities to Refrain from All Settlement Activity
S/1997/199
March 7, 1997

Confirming Israeli Expropriation of Land in East Jerusalem as Invalid
S/1995/394
May 17, 1995

Commission to Investigate Murder of Seven Palestinian Workers
S/21326
May 31, 1990

Deploring Israeli Policies and Practices in the Occupied Territories
S/20945/Rev.1
November 7, 1989

Condemning Israeli Policies and Practices in the Occupied Territories
S/20677
June 9, 1989

Deploring Israeli Policies and Practices in the Occupied Territories
S/20463
February 17, 1989

Deploring Israeli Attack Against Lebanese Territory on December 9
S/20322
December 14, 1988
Condemning Invasion by Israeli Forces of Southern Lebanon
S/19868
May 10, 1988

Urging Israel to Abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention
S/19780
April 15, 1988

Calling on Israel to Accept Applicability of 4th Geneva Convention
S/19466
February 1, 1988

Deploring Repeated Israeli Attacks Against Lebanese Territory
S/19434
January 18, 1988

Condemning Israeli Interception of Libyan Plane
S/17796/Rev.1
February 6, 1986

Calling on Israel to Respect Muslim Holy Places
S/17769/Rev.1
January 30, 1986

Condemning Israeli Practices Against Civilians in Southern Lebanon
S/17730/Rev.2
January 17, 1986

Deploring Repressive Measures by Israel Against Arab Population
S/17459
September 13, 1985

Condemning Israeli Actions Against Civilians in Southern Lebanon
S/17000
March 12, 1985

Calls for Israel Respect of Lebanese Sovereignty & Independence
S/16732
September 6, 1984

Determining Israeli Settlement Construction as Illegal
S/15895
August 2, 1983

Condemning Israel for Not Implementing Res.'s 516 & 517
S/15347/Rev.1
August 6, 1982

Demanding Immediate Cessation of Hostilities in Lebanon
S/15255/Rev 2
June 26, 1982

Calling on Israel to Withdraw Forces from Lebanon
S/15185
June 8, 1982

Condemning Aggression on the Temple Mount
S/14985
April 20, 1982

Denouncing Israeli Contravention of Fourth Geneva Convention
S/14943
April 2, 1982

Calling for Nullification of Israeli Occupation of Golan Heights
S/14832/Rev.1
January 20, 1982

Exercise of Inalienable Rights by the Palestinians
S/13911
April 30, 1980

Affirming Palestinian Right of Return and Sovereignty in Palestine
S/12119
June 29, 1976

Calling on Israel to Uphold Protection of Holy Places
S/12022
March 25, 1976

Calling on Israel to Withdraw from All Palestinian Territories
S/11940
January 26, 1976

Condemning Israel for Air Strikes Against Lebanon
S/11898
December 8, 1975

Deploring Israel's Continued Occupation of Palestinian Territories
S/10974
July 26, 1973

Complaint over Israeli Aggression Against Lebanon
S/10784
September 10, 1972

U.S. Vetoes of UN Security Council Resolutions Critical to Israel Jewish Virtual Library

The UN??? That's a whole other circus.. Lives of Americans are not hardly influenced by the antics of the clowns at the UN. And my wager is that 1/2 or more of those resolutions DESERVED to be vetoed because of the authors and the motives.

So you don't have ANY EXAMPLES of AIPAC lobby efforts affecting REAL expenditures or legislation??? That's the charge here. That Israel's interests are costing folks money and corrupting legislation.

Got to be SOME bills or policies that one of you JOOO haters can come up with..

 

[flacaltenn]

Go read the legislative agenda at AIPAC.org and tell me WHAT initiatives you disagree with.. Americans ONLY please.

 

[montelatici]

this entire thread sounds like 5 yr olds fighting over a CandyLand game.
Can ANYONE give me examples of Pro-Israel legislation passed with the influence of AIPAC?

For that matter -- Rocco posted a list of ANTI-ISRAEL votes by prominent Leftist Dems. WHat WERE those votes on? I seriously doubt that any policy or legislation directly benefitting Israel ONLY has been passed in recent years other than funding for Iron Dome and weapons contracts.

And if they are BURIED in a general Defense Authorization Budget, who is to say that they PENNIES for Israel influenced the vote? This is all smoke and furor over nothing.

Israel should NEVER be a welfare client of the USA. But when their vested interests align with ours -- I'm not blaming Joooooossss for the decision.. So if AIPAC calls for more Iranian sanctions --- I'm concerned with the ISSUE --- not who is supporting it. Same with pronouncing Hesbollah and Hamas as terrorist organizations.

There is really no evidence to ANY of the accusations that AIPAC is successful in promoting Israel only interests politically. And there is NOTHING wrong with promoting technology exchange and commerce with the nation of Israel in general..

If all you haters expect that Israel would EVER be sanctioned or blockaded or blackballed if only lobbyists were silenced -- you are daft and deluded..

US Vetoes at the UN Security Council in support of Israel since 1972

Condemning Israeli settlements Established Since 1967 as Illegal
S/2011/24
February 18, 2011

Calling Israel To Halt Gaza Operation
S/2006/878
November 11, 2006

Calling Israel To Halt Gaza Operation
S/2006/508
July 13, 2006

Calling Israel To Halt Gaza Operation
S/2004/783
October 5, 2004

Condemning Israel for Killing Hamas Leader Ahmed Yassin
S/2004/240
March 25, 2004

Seeking to Bar Israel from Extending Security Fence
S/2003/980
October 14, 2003

Demanding Israel Halt Threats to Expel Yasser Arafat
S/2003/891
September 16, 2003

Condemning Israeli Killing UN employees of World Food Programme
S/2002/1385
December 20, 2002

Demanding Immediate Cessation of Israeli-Palestinian Violence
S/2001/1199
December 14, 2001

Calling for UN Observers Force in West Bank & Gaza
S/2001/270
March 27, 2001

Demanding Israel Cease Construction of Settlements in East Jerusalem
S/1997/241
March 21, 1997

Calling Israeli authorities to Refrain from All Settlement Activity
S/1997/199
March 7, 1997

Confirming Israeli Expropriation of Land in East Jerusalem as Invalid
S/1995/394
May 17, 1995

Commission to Investigate Murder of Seven Palestinian Workers
S/21326
May 31, 1990

Deploring Israeli Policies and Practices in the Occupied Territories
S/20945/Rev.1
November 7, 1989

Condemning Israeli Policies and Practices in the Occupied Territories
S/20677
June 9, 1989

Deploring Israeli Policies and Practices in the Occupied Territories
S/20463
February 17, 1989

Deploring Israeli Attack Against Lebanese Territory on December 9
S/20322
December 14, 1988
Condemning Invasion by Israeli Forces of Southern Lebanon
S/19868
May 10, 1988

Urging Israel to Abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention
S/19780
April 15, 1988

Calling on Israel to Accept Applicability of 4th Geneva Convention
S/19466
February 1, 1988

Deploring Repeated Israeli Attacks Against Lebanese Territory
S/19434
January 18, 1988

Condemning Israeli Interception of Libyan Plane
S/17796/Rev.1
February 6, 1986

Calling on Israel to Respect Muslim Holy Places
S/17769/Rev.1
January 30, 1986

Condemning Israeli Practices Against Civilians in Southern Lebanon
S/17730/Rev.2
January 17, 1986

Deploring Repressive Measures by Israel Against Arab Population
S/17459
September 13, 1985

Condemning Israeli Actions Against Civilians in Southern Lebanon
S/17000
March 12, 1985

Calls for Israel Respect of Lebanese Sovereignty & Independence
S/16732
September 6, 1984

Determining Israeli Settlement Construction as Illegal
S/15895
August 2, 1983

Condemning Israel for Not Implementing Res.'s 516 & 517
S/15347/Rev.1
August 6, 1982

Demanding Immediate Cessation of Hostilities in Lebanon
S/15255/Rev 2
June 26, 1982

Calling on Israel to Withdraw Forces from Lebanon
S/15185
June 8, 1982

Condemning Aggression on the Temple Mount
S/14985
April 20, 1982

Denouncing Israeli Contravention of Fourth Geneva Convention
S/14943
April 2, 1982

Calling for Nullification of Israeli Occupation of Golan Heights
S/14832/Rev.1
January 20, 1982

Exercise of Inalienable Rights by the Palestinians
S/13911
April 30, 1980

Affirming Palestinian Right of Return and Sovereignty in Palestine
S/12119
June 29, 1976

Calling on Israel to Uphold Protection of Holy Places
S/12022
March 25, 1976

Calling on Israel to Withdraw from All Palestinian Territories
S/11940
January 26, 1976

Condemning Israel for Air Strikes Against Lebanon
S/11898
December 8, 1975

Deploring Israel's Continued Occupation of Palestinian Territories
S/10974
July 26, 1973

Complaint over Israeli Aggression Against Lebanon
S/10784
September 10, 1972

U.S. Vetoes of UN Security Council Resolutions Critical to Israel Jewish Virtual Library

The UN??? That's a whole other circus.. Lives of Americans are not hardly influenced by the antics of the clowns at the UN. And my wager is that 1/2 or more of those resolutions DESERVED to be vetoed because of the authors and the motives.

So you don't have ANY EXAMPLES of AIPAC lobby efforts affecting REAL expenditures or legislation??? That's the charge here. That Israel's interests are costing folks money and corrupting legislation.

Got to be SOME bills or policies that one of you JOOO haters can come up with..

"U.S. aid to Israel has some unique
aspects, such as loans with repayment waived,
or a pledge to provide Israel with economic
assistance equal to the amount Israel owes the
United States for previous loans.

http://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/IB85066.pdf

In effect besides the 3-4 billion in aid Israel gets annually, Israel does not pay back the loans it gets. We are not Jew haters, we are realists and do not appreciate Americans who support Israel at the expense of America.

 

[pbel]

Mass psychoses began in 622 A.D. The cure is Jesus Christ.

Keep in mind that Voltaire offered his doctor a monetary fortune if he could guarantee him 6 more months because he realized albeit too late that he was ruled by Satan his entire life and for that was soon to be in hell. His greatest regret choosing the wrong ruler over his own life's choices. Be wise and do not follow in his footsteps, Pbel. As to the matter of Israel............

The problem is not Israel. The problem is with people who have a problem with Israel. ( or the Jews) Eventually there will be an outcome and not the one you'd prefer or expect. Better for everyone to leave Israel alone and stop slandering her. Have you not seen what ISIS is doing? No comment for those beheading children? Wrong argument? Not important? What would be your reason for avoiding such horror while focusing on tiny Israel?

'yall keep peeking under bathroom stalls while preaching your railings against the Enlightenment and Christ must be crying watching people like you supporting genocide of the real indigenous Jews, the Palestinians...

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

And you will do anything to avoid addressing the topic of this thread which Flacaltenn clearly pointed out for your benefit, Pbel. Go look at the AIPAC link and answer question.

And fyi:

Israel is known as a Jewish state for a reason! She is Jewish! There was no such thing as a Palestinian prior to the rebirth of Israel. The minute the news breaks that Israel is about to be reborn she becomes the long lost home of every arab in sight! Get that nonsense out of my sight! Israel belongs to the Jews! The history is over 4000 yrs old on Jews and Israel. You've got nothing but a bad propaganda story on your hands. It's full of holes. FULL, I tell you!

Good night, Pbel. Do not forget to respond to the AIPAC question. It seems to have elluded you.

 

[pbel]

And you will do anything to avoid addressing the topic of this thread which Flacaltenn clearly pointed out for your benefit, Pbel. Go look at the AIPAC link and answer question.

And fyi:

Israel is known as a Jewish state for a reason! She is Jewish! There was no such thing as a Palestinian prior to the rebirth of Israel. The minute the news breaks that Israel is about to be reborn she becomes the long lost home of every arab in sight! Get that nonsense out of my sight! Israel belongs to the Jews! The history is over 4000 yrs old on Jews and Israel. You've got nothing but a bad propaganda story on your hands. It's full of holes. FULL, I tell you!

Good night, Pbel. Do not forget to respond to the AIPAC question. It seems to have elluded you.

don't forget to flush!

 

[flacaltenn]

"U.S. aid to Israel has some unique
aspects, such as loans with repayment waived,
or a pledge to provide Israel with economic
assistance equal to the amount Israel owes the
United States for previous loans.

http://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/IB85066.pdf

In effect besides the 3-4 billion in aid Israel gets annually, Israel does not pay back the loans it gets. We are not Jew haters, we are realists and do not appreciate Americans who support Israel at the expense of America.

Very interesting reading. Thanks for the FAS report. You might learn some things if you actually read it..

Loans with Repayment Waived
The United States has not canceled any of Israel’s debts to the U.S. government, but the U.S. government has waived repayment of aid to Israel that originally was categorized as loans. Following the 1973 war, President Nixon asked Congress for emergency aid for
Israel, including loans for which repayment would be waived. Israel preferred that the aid be in the form of loans, rather than grants, to avoid having a U.S. military contingent in Israel to oversee a grant program. Since 1974, some or all of U.S. military aid to Israel has been
in the form of loans for which repayment is waived. Technically, the assistance is called loans, but as a practical matter, the military aid is grant. From FY1974 through FY2003,
Israel has received more than $45 billion in waived loans. (Egypt also receives some of its U.S. military assistance in the form of loans with repayment waived. In 1990, the United States canceled $6.7 billion in past military debts that Egypt owed to the United States.)

Other things you might learn is that Loan Guarantees don't cost taxpayer very much at all as long as Israel maintains a credit rating.

In whole --- 85% of the military dollars that we grant Israel goes to OUR military industrial complex. American jobs.. They are allowed to spend about 20% of that money elsewhere. You might look at the Defense Industry lobbies for more EFFECTIVE SUPPORT on these than AIPAC.

Do I want to grant that much military aid to Israel? Not as a matter of normal business. Certainly not EVERY YEAR and certainly not if Israel ever misused those weapons against their neighbors in full fledged war.

It should NOT be a perennial budget item. Neither should the military aid to ANY other country for that matter. That type of aid ought to managed on NEED and as conditions change with geopolitical challenges.

But Israel should have adequate support to fend off aggression. And in times of threat -- we SHOULD amp up their armed forces. As Israel is a nuclear power -- I prefer that they have options to USING that nuclear capability. And in their neighborhood, that means they need overwhelming defensive abilities to survive..

The military aid to Israel needs to be managed better. LARGELY it's not our generousity that motivates it. It's our desire to keep our Defense Industry in business..

 

[toastman]

How many states that hold millions of people in gulags does the U.S. support? American Israel Firsters like you are afflicted by cognitive dissonance, well beyond being far from reality.

Frankly it goes well beyond dissonance, I think its an understandable mass psychoses caused by the stress of living within hostile environments for a millennia culminating in the holocaust...

Israel was the result, born of psychoses and fear it acts thusly...

What is it with you and saying things that are completely untrue?

 

[pbel]

How many states that hold millions of people in gulags does the U.S. support? American Israel Firsters like you are afflicted by cognitive dissonance, well beyond being far from reality.

Frankly it goes well beyond dissonance, I think its an understandable mass psychoses caused by the stress of living within hostile environments for a millennia culminating in the holocaust...

Israel was the result, born of psychoses and fear it acts thusly...

What is it with you and saying things that are completely untrue?

Rather than whine, why don't you prove that its untrue...

 

[José]

Originally posted by pbel
'yall keep peeking under bathroom stalls while preaching your railings against the Enlightenment and Christ must be crying watching people like you supporting genocide of the real indigenous Jews, the Palestinians...

It's insanity to imagine that "millions" of arabs moved to Palestine 1400 years ago and replaced the population already living there ("millions" would be the equivalent of today's demographics).

It's much more probable that a few invading arabs promoted the arabization of the natives of the region (among them the remaining jewish population).

So it's very possible that the europeans of the jewish faith who founded the modern state of Israel are now actively engaged in killing the descendants of the ancient semitic jews (among many other peoples) who inhabited the region, ironically stating they are doing so to "protect" Jews.

 

[montelatici]

"U.S. aid to Israel has some unique
aspects, such as loans with repayment waived,
or a pledge to provide Israel with economic
assistance equal to the amount Israel owes the
United States for previous loans.

http://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/IB85066.pdf

In effect besides the 3-4 billion in aid Israel gets annually, Israel does not pay back the loans it gets. We are not Jew haters, we are realists and do not appreciate Americans who support Israel at the expense of America.

Very interesting reading. Thanks for the FAS report. You might learn some things if you actually read it..

Loans with Repayment Waived
The United States has not canceled any of Israel’s debts to the U.S. government, but the U.S. government has waived repayment of aid to Israel that originally was categorized as loans. Following the 1973 war, President Nixon asked Congress for emergency aid for
Israel, including loans for which repayment would be waived. Israel preferred that the aid be in the form of loans, rather than grants, to avoid having a U.S. military contingent in Israel to oversee a grant program. Since 1974, some or all of U.S. military aid to Israel has been
in the form of loans for which repayment is waived. Technically, the assistance is called loans, but as a practical matter, the military aid is grant. From FY1974 through FY2003,
Israel has received more than $45 billion in waived loans. (Egypt also receives some of its U.S. military assistance in the form of loans with repayment waived. In 1990, the United States canceled $6.7 billion in past military debts that Egypt owed to the United States.)

Other things you might learn is that Loan Guarantees don't cost taxpayer very much at all as long as Israel maintains a credit rating.

In whole --- 85% of the military dollars that we grant Israel goes to OUR military industrial complex. American jobs.. They are allowed to spend about 20% of that money elsewhere. You might look at the Defense Industry lobbies for more EFFECTIVE SUPPORT on these than AIPAC.

Do I want to grant that much military aid to Israel? Not as a matter of normal business. Certainly not EVERY YEAR and certainly not if Israel ever misused those weapons against their neighbors in full fledged war.

It should NOT be a perennial budget item. Neither should the military aid to ANY other country for that matter. That type of aid ought to managed on NEED and as conditions change with geopolitical challenges.

But Israel should have adequate support to fend off aggression. And in times of threat -- we SHOULD amp up their armed forces. As Israel is a nuclear power -- I prefer that they have options to USING that nuclear capability. And in their neighborhood, that means they need overwhelming defensive abilities to survive..

The military aid to Israel needs to be managed better. LARGELY it's not our generousity that motivates it. It's our desire to keep our Defense Industry in business..

"But Israel should have adequate support to fend off aggression."

Why? Palestinians just want their homes and land back. Why should thieves be financed to keep their stolen goods?

 

[toastman]

How many states that hold millions of people in gulags does the U.S. support? American Israel Firsters like you are afflicted by cognitive dissonance, well beyond being far from reality.

Frankly it goes well beyond dissonance, I think its an understandable mass psychoses caused by the stress of living within hostile environments for a millennia culminating in the holocaust...

Israel was the result, born of psychoses and fear it acts thusly...

What is it with you and saying things that are completely untrue?

Rather than whine, why don't you prove that its untrue...

Pbel, stop whining already!