Zone1 Alpha Male vs a Real Man... Are They the Same Thing?

[Robert W]

By that logic, isn’t the perceived prestige of being a manager just another benefit of the position?

Yes, that is correct. My concepts of this are not my invention, I studied sales since around 1960. That and I owned firms that depended on sales. I figured being in the sales profession, and not knowing much, I better study or end up as a loser. So, it was my decision to not end up a loser.

Most people never heard of the giants of selling. Joe Girard sold cars and holds records. I studied him. I studied Think and grow rich. And a lot more than that. I never sold cars, but I sold my machine shop services and later sold homes, and land to contractors. I sold appraisal services and later loans to customers.

Joe Girard - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

Disclaimer: The following post is just my opinion. So it's OK if we disagree, I'm not stating this as an objective truth that everyone has to agree with.


Is an "alpha male" and a real man the same thing?

This question came to mind while I was reading another thread where people were describing Trump as an “alpha male.” The premise of that thread seemed to be that women love alpha males…and Trump is an alpha male, so that’s why women love Trump. I was going to reply on that thread, but then I figured this is actually an interesting topic that deserves a thread of its own.


I don’t want this thread to be only about Trump, so the only thing I’ll say about him is this...whether he's an alpha male or not, it always surprises me that people think of Trump as attractive. That got me thinking, what makes a man attractive? Is it simply being an alpha male, or is there something more than that? Then I thought, maybe I don't have the right definition of alpha male in mind.

So I looked up the definition, and here’s what I found:


“In a human context, an ‘alpha male’ is typically defined as a man who is dominant, assertive, and occupies a high social or professional status.”
​

Ok, so if an alpha male is simply a man who is dominant, assertive, and has a high social or professional status....that's cool, but to me those qualities alone don’t necessarily make someone attractive. Or a real man, necessarily.

Of course, I can’t speak for all women; I can only speak for myself.


In my view, what good is it to be dominant, confident and assertive...or to have power or social status.…if one doesn’t also have truly admirable qualities like honesty, integrity, honor, and wisdom?


I would say that a real man, and a true leader, is someone who has strength of character, integrity, wisdom, courage, and other qualities that people can genuinely admire and respect....and confidence too. But not the kind of confidence that is pompous or arrogant. I think real confidence is paired with humility. And that may not be a quality that people tend to associate with an "alpha male"...but I would say that a real man or a true leader has humility. I mean, look at Jesus. From a Christian perspective, He is the highest power in the world, the King above all kings, yet he was humble and "lowly." (Matthew 11:29)

So I’m curious to know how other people see this.


Is an “alpha male” the same thing as a real man or a true leader? Or are they two completely different things?

And if you're a woman....is someone being an alpha male all it takes for you, or is there something more that makes a man attractive?

Or is this whole idea of "alpha male" a silly and unimportant concept? lol

It's all about control of yourself...

Males are gonna male
Boys will be boys

Control

 

[Robert W]

This thread is showing that we're obviously not all on the same page as to the definition of ‘alpha male.’

Dragonlady is going by a very positive definition.

According to the online dictionaries I went to, the definition is more neutral:

​

"A male individual that is dominant among others" (Oxford English Dictionary)​

​

"the most dominant, powerful, or assertive man in a particular group." (Dictionary.com)​

​

But the whole idea of 'alpha male' is relatively recent, and from what I'm gathering, it's said to be pseudo-science. At least when it's applied in a human context. I think it's more of a pop culture phrase.

Dragonlady, I'm not saying you're wrong, but it seems to me that what you're describing is a true LEADER. This is just my view on it, because even the word 'leader' is neutral... someone's leadership can be good or bad. But in my view, a TRUE leader is someone who leads people in the right direction, and has many of the qualities that some of us have been attributing to a real man. Strength of character, responsibility, trustworthiness, wisdom, courage, humility, etc. So I think what you're doing is defining 'alpha' in the way I define true leader.

I have personal views too but am enjoying the words of others. I enjoy how you analyze. It seems to me you are a very good leader.

 

[braalian]

I think it’s wrong to automatically assume being “alpha” as a good thing or a bad thing. Or to define it by asserting that “alpha men are good/kind/providers” or “alpha men are jerks/selfish/bullies.

Alpha is a separate thing from good/bad or nice guy/jerk. There are jerks who are alpha, there are nice family guys who are alpha

 

[Robert W]

Well, there is science to back up the claim that men with high testosterone are more aggressive, more virile, more competitive and physically stronger than other men.

This, of course, might not match your own definition of an “alpha male”, but for many that is indeed the definition

I will for the first time, though I contributed already to this, that the key word is Alpha. This we all know alpha means first. When one encounters an Alpha, they are generally, not by everyone, but will pretty well size up the person and proclaim that person is an alpha.

 

[braalian]

I will for the first time, though I contributed already to this, that the key word is Alpha. This we all know alpha means first. When one encounters an Alpha, they are generally, not by everyone, but will pretty well size up the person and proclaim that person is an alpha.

How do they size them up? By appearance?

 

[Robert W]

How do they size them up? By appearance?

Well, it is a good question. I would say this much. When a leader, the alpha is in the group of men or women, the group can size up the person that the group will respond to as if the person can lead them.

My father was a job foreman. And was a kind generous man. And he was considered the best foreman the firm had in California. Men responded to him as a person that was in charge.

A good story about him. He was working on driving pile for a bridge in northern CA. He had on his job a grumpy operator. Dad needed dirt moved using a Caterpillar tractor, so he told the operator what he needed. The operator was perhaps more grumpy. He made a mess and not correct for the job; He asked Dad how did he like it Dad did not like it. He told the operator, if that is the best you can do, I will make do. And the operator got back on the cat and did a very good job. Dad knew how to motivate people. An alpha is like that.

 

[Dorian Mode]

You have no clue at all about Trump. You never met him. You never talked to him. You have judged him based on your personal bias. If you managed others like you manage yourself, you really have a lot to learn.

That is the power of political propaganda and mindfuckery. It subconsciously creates personal bias and molds opinion to suit political objectives, not serve humanity. Concerning Trump, the dumocraps have targeted weakminded people with rhetoric and imagery that invokes strong emotional responses and gives them a neurochemical high that becomes a dependency. People usually have no idea they have been psychologically manipulated, and over time they will deny it when everyone points it out to them. The dumocraps learned that if you control and manipulate the minds of voters you can create voter blocs that go on forever, like women using feminism and the black community with racism. That was the genesis of Identity Politics.

 

[Robert W]

That is the power of political propaganda and mindfuckery. It subconsciously creates personal bias and molds opinion to suit political objectives, not serve humanity. Concerning Trump, the dumocraps have targeted weakminded people with rhetoric and imagery that invokes strong emotional responses and gives them a neurochemical high that becomes a dependency. People usually have no idea they have been psychologically manipulated, and over time they will deny it when everyone points it out to them. The dumocraps learned that if you control and manipulate the minds of voters you can create voter blocs that go on forever, like women using feminism and the black community with racism. That was the genesis of Identity Politics.

Hard to improve on your comments.

 

[buttercup]

I have personal views too but am enjoying the words of others. I enjoy how you analyze. It seems to me you are a very good leader.

I've been enjoying everyone's ideas on this too. And thank you! But it's a bit surprising to hear that, because I don't think of myself that way. Job-wise, I've never been a manager. I do like to learn, and share what I've learned, with anyone who will listen. But as an introvert, I don't like speaking in front of groups, I do it through creative projects...namely videos and writing. (blogs) Anyway, thank you once again, that was encouraging, it kinda made my night.

 

[Mashmont]

Great managers are people who are able to bring out the best in their subordinates, to maximize their output and efficiency. They use knowledge, vision, and communication to establish clear goals, and provide the environment, materials and resources for their employees to achieve them.

You have just described President Trump. He is a great but demanding manager. No one can deny his team is united behind him. He is reported to seek opinions from everybody on the team, then make a decision.

 

[Mashmont]

Yes, that is correct. My concepts of this are not my invention, I studied sales since around 1960. That and I owned firms that depended on sales. I figured being in the sales profession, and not knowing much, I better study or end up as a loser. So, it was my decision to not end up a loser.

Most people never heard of the giants of selling. Joe Girard sold cars and holds records. I studied him. I studied Think and grow rich. And a lot more than that. I never sold cars, but I sold my machine shop services and later sold homes, and land to contractors. I sold appraisal services and later loans to customers.

Joe Girard - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I’ve read Think and Grow Rich a dozen times over the years, especially at the beginning of my career. 100 years old, but timeless. I also read The Art of the Deal which was full of good pointers. I love motivational books. I recently read Nick Saban’s book and am fascinated with Curt Cignetti’s story and how he does things.

 

[initforme]

Complete nonsense.

Not really. Look at the trend and how its growing. Increasing numbers of people arent getting married or having kids. They are figuring out thats its not wise to rush into a marriage until they are older and wiser. The old days of starting out with nothing doesnt work in this day and age.

 

[braalian]

Not really. Look at the trend and how its growing. Increasing numbers of people arent getting married or having kids. They are figuring out thats its not wise to rush into a marriage until they are older and wiser. The old days of starting out with nothing doesnt work in this day and age.

Boy, you are not a fan of marriage or procreation, are you?

 

[EdwinAMartin]

Not really. Look at the trend and how its growing. Increasing numbers of people arent getting married or having kids. They are figuring out thats its not wise to rush into a marriage until they are older and wiser. The old days of starting out with nothing doesnt work in this day and age.

Same thing happened during the DEpression. Many simply can't afford kids.

 

[Mashmont]

Not really. Look at the trend and how its growing. Increasing numbers of people arent getting married or having kids. They are figuring out thats its not wise to rush into a marriage until they are older and wiser. The old days of starting out with nothing doesnt work in this day and age.

These kids aren’t figuring out anything. They don’t marry because they lack the maturity to commit. Many are socially inept because they’re on their phone all day. Part of it is irreligion. Pets have replaced kids. It’s a bad trend for society.

 

[initforme]

These kids aren’t figuring out anything. They don’t marry because they lack the maturity to commit. Many are socially inept because they’re on their phone all day. Part of it is irreligion. Pets have replaced kids. It’s a bad trend for society.

Why is it a bad trend? If a person doesnt want to marry then why would you want that person to get married? I see things as the old way of marrying by 25 starting from scratch doesnt work in todays america and the proof is the growing trend. We neednt be pressuring young people into a way of life they dont want.

 

[Mashmont]

Why is it a bad trend? If a person doesnt want to marry then why would you want that person to get married? I see things as the old way of marrying by 25 starting from scratch doesnt work in todays america and the proof is the growing trend. We neednt be pressuring young people into a way of life they dont want.

It’s bad because it leads to loneliness, depression and depopulation. Working from home is also a destructive trend.

 

[initforme]

It’s bad because it leads to loneliness, depression and depopulation. Working from home is also a

Perhaps its work itself that leads to loneliness and depression.

 

[Dorian Mode]

Boy, you are not a fan of marriage or procreation, are you?

Depends on who you are talking to, doesn't it? Dumocraps are so anti-biology it is scary. Everyone else can accept the fact that we are biological organisms dedicated to maintaining Life. One of the fundamental tenets of Life is that it desperately wants to reproduce itself. People that deny basic biology are the ones that end up so miserable. Life is not about same sex relationships, worshipping a political party and killing offspring before they ever take their first breath. I am so glad my wife and I were able to have a daughter and watch her grow up to adulthood. There is no bigger satisfaction in the universe. But, if dumocraps want to do everything possible to avoid that satisfaction and instead dedicate their lives to hating Trump, that's fine. The world needs less leftists anyway.