Zone1 Questions for Christians who still put their trust in politicians and the political system

[buttercup]

What a great and honest good faith you come to in this discussion, I applaud you.

Christ had no party, and it can be dicey how Christ's message manifests in 17th-20th century America. Of course, that can be completely exploited and used by politicians and rulers.. as it has been at times throughout the history of the Catholic Church. We've had anti-Popes who were controlled by Kings.

As far as American politics is concerned, I don't think any Catholic can make the claim that the Democrat party more aligns with Catholicism than the Republican party. It doesn't make the GOP "holy" in any way, acting holy goes far beyond any law.

I'm a political Conservative, but I seek my religious guidance and inspiration in the Church, not from political leaders. I think nearly all Catholics do the same. I can't claim Protestants and outsiders. I've seen some very religious-oriented praise of Trump... and while Trump can be a tool used to promote certain Catholic ideals, he's a very big sinner like the rest of us. He's no religious leader. We shouldn't seek religious virtue from our political leaders. We should desire our political leaders to stay out of the way as much as possible and not become demagogues. I think some people put too much "faith" in political leaders. Use them for what they're good for, don't seek absolution through them.

Thank you for the kind words. Even though I'm non-denominational, I agree with basically everything you said. I appreciate the level-headed response and wisdom, thanks again.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Thank you for the kind words. Even though I'm non-denominational, I agree with basically everything you said. I appreciate the level-headed response and wisdom, thanks again.

If you have any further questions.. I'm no Aquinas... but I'll refer to him (and others who are guided by Christ) if you want to know the true stance of Christianity... I'm not coddling you, seek the truth.

 

[buttercup]

If you have any further questions.. I'm no Aquinas... but I'll refer to him (and others who are guided by Christ) if you want to know the true stance of Christianity... I'm not coddling you, seek the truth.

Just in case my words were misleading...I am a Christian. I just don't have a denomination. Although these days, I guess a "Non-denominational" church IS kind of its own denomination, lol.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Just in case my words were misleading...I am a Christian. I just don't have a denomination. Although these days, I guess a "Non-denominational" church IS kind of its own denomination, lol.

You don't have to care about my story, but let me tell you the Cliffs Notes that led me to Catholicism
1. My dad is a Protestant Lutheran Minister
2. I was raised Protestant Lutheran
3. I became curious about faith
4. I couldn't reconcile the differences between "Christian" churches
5. I started confessing my sins to Protestant pastors who were clearly uneasy from that
6. I discussed and endlessly debated theology with my brother (who was also raised as I was, Lutheran, but converted to Catholicism, and majored in Catholic theology at Duke)
7. I contacted a local Catholic Church
8. I realized I was starving for Confession, which is a Catholic sacrament of forgiveness of sins (which isn't involved in Protestantism)
9. I realized that Church authority (aka called "tradition) has a basis in the passing on of generational knowledge and context/meaning of the word. No Catholic would pick up a bible, read it in American english in 2025, and think they have the meaning as it was in 30 AD.

You can do what you want.. but there's a whole new world out there if you want it. Ask yourself: who has the right to say what Christ is?

 

[SaxonJackson]

I have a few questions for you buttercup . Why do you assume conservative Christians put their "trust" in a man and not God?

We have at least a few leftists on this board that call themselves Christian. Did you ever ask such questions of them during the Biden or Obama administrations? Why not?

Was Satan alive and roaming the earth during the days of a ancient Israel? Was he king over all the world?

Was Satan the ruler of the world during the days of Hezekiah? Josiah? These were among the good kings of Judah who tried to restore Israel/Judah

My "trust" is not in Donald Trump but in God.

I believe it is clear as day that GOD is giving America ONE LAST CHANCE before we enter the Great Tribulation.
This current INSURRECTION tells me we are FAILING. and too far gone. But it is clear God is giving us ONE LAST CHANCE

I can't speak for anyone else but I've personally witnessed people on this forum who profess to be "Christians" getting extremely angry or defensive if and when I criticize Trump or anyone on his team. They seem unwilling to admit that Trump has faults. There are forum members (that identify as "Christians") who were my "friends" last year when I supported Trump that now consider me their adversary now that I no longer support most of Trump's current policies.

I didn't change my core beliefs one bit. I'm the same person today as I was during Trump's campaign. I voted for him, in part, because I expected him and his DOJ to try, convict, and arrest literal criminals who participated in Russiagate; those liberals who actually planned the events of J6; the J6 committee who suppressed or altered evidence; and people who contracted with Epstein to use and abuse underaged girls. But 6 months into Trump's presidency, he called Epstein's victims "a hoax" and did NOTHING to seek justice on their behalf. And not a single "Swamp Creature" has even received a slap on the wrist.

So, yes ... there are a number of so-called Christians who place Trump & team high on a pedestal. They've placed great trust in the man even though he outright lied to his base and American voters, in general. No man should ever receive that degree of trust when the Bible describes all of mankind as being flawed sinners.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The craziest thing is people like buttercup who believe EVERYTHING occurs because EVERYTHING is manipulated by some "powers that shouldn't be" and there is NO DIFFERENCE in the people we choose

But I don't want to derail her thread and will say no more. You obviously also understand the point she is hoping to lead us to

You think I’m kidding?

https://www.npr.org/2025/07/17/nx-s1-5471391/israel-hamas-war-gaza-catholic-church-priest

Tell me how those bad bad Hamas terrorists were hiding in the church

Christian Zionists (my family has many) are being played

Bibi hides behind Judaism and he does a great disservice in the process

 

[Carl in Michigan]

You think I’m kidding?

https://www.npr.org/2025/07/17/nx-s1-5471391/israel-hamas-war-gaza-catholic-church-priest

Tell me how those bad bad Hamas terrorists were hiding in the church

Christian Zionists (my family has many) are being played

Bibi hides behind Judaism and he does a great disservice in the process

No. Like Buttercup and a few others, I know you're serious. You are among the infected.
THIS is the satanic deception. There are several here who are being played on every level

---

Hamas’s strategic objective in the war has been to get its adversary, the IDF, to kill as many Palestinians as possible—a strategic end that may be without precedent—by using human shields. It embeds in schools, hospitals, apartment buildings, mosques, and churches, and then attacks the IDF in the hopes that it will return fire and kill civilians, condemning the IDF in the eyes of the world. The IDF, in contrast, has sought to minimize civilian casualties in pursuit of Israel’s war aims: to rescue the hostages (fifty of whom are still being held) and destroy Hamas. Yet the moral scrutiny of much of the world has been on the IDF exclusively; it’s difficult to see how that exclusive attention on the IDF has disincentivized the use of human shields or lowered civilian casualties.

Shortly after the war began on October 7, Pope Francis elevated Holy Family into a symbol of Christianity’s survival in the Holy Land, calling the parish daily. But the Church, and much of the West, fails to grasp that their advocacy for Palestinian Christians is often interpreted as an implicit affirmation of the cause of Palestinian nationalism, rather than an affirmation of religious minority rights—though Palestinian statehood has been jettisoned time and again in favor of the destruction of Israel. In recent years, that cause has gone beyond national liberation to become the ideological spearhead of a global liberation movement against “oppressor” classes everywhere, merely starting with Israel. The Church must take care not to feed into this movement

Islamists and the Tragedy of Holy Family Church - First Things

Three Christians were killed and ten others wounded last Thursday when an Israel Defense Forces (IDF) mortar round struck Holy Family Church—Gaza’s only Catholic parish—where civilians, Muslim and Christian,...

firstthings.com

 

[Woodznutz]

Government is like a 'permissive parent', with predictable results.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

No. Like Buttercup and a few others, I know you're serious. You are among the infected.
THIS is the satanic deception. There are several here who are being played on every level

---

Hamas’s strategic objective in the war has been to get its adversary, the IDF, to kill as many Palestinians as possible—a strategic end that may be without precedent—by using human shields. It embeds in schools, hospitals, apartment buildings, mosques, and churches, and then attacks the IDF in the hopes that it will return fire and kill civilians, condemning the IDF in the eyes of the world. The IDF, in contrast, has sought to minimize civilian casualties in pursuit of Israel’s war aims: to rescue the hostages (fifty of whom are still being held) and destroy Hamas. Yet the moral scrutiny of much of the world has been on the IDF exclusively; it’s difficult to see how that exclusive attention on the IDF has disincentivized the use of human shields or lowered civilian casualties.

Shortly after the war began on October 7, Pope Francis elevated Holy Family into a symbol of Christianity’s survival in the Holy Land, calling the parish daily. But the Church, and much of the West, fails to grasp that their advocacy for Palestinian Christians is often interpreted as an implicit affirmation of the cause of Palestinian nationalism, rather than an affirmation of religious minority rights—though Palestinian statehood has been jettisoned time and again in favor of the destruction of Israel. In recent years, that cause has gone beyond national liberation to become the ideological spearhead of a global liberation movement against “oppressor” classes everywhere, merely starting with Israel. The Church must take care not to feed into this movement

Islamists and the Tragedy of Holy Family Church - First Things

Three Christians were killed and ten others wounded last Thursday when an Israel Defense Forces (IDF) mortar round struck Holy Family Church—Gaza’s only Catholic parish—where civilians, Muslim and Christian,...

firstthings.com

Bibi funded Hamas through Qatar, issued a stand, issued a stand down order on 10/7 and lied about beheaded babies.

I was once a fervent supporter of Bibi and Israel but I’ve come to see that Bibi is the absolute worst face of Israel and Judaism.

In any event it’s not Hamas blowing up schools, hospitals, churches and sniping children, that’s Bibi’s End of the World IDF. He’s trying to turn the world agayhis perverted version of Israel. I support Israel and Judaism, I do NOT support Bibi

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Bibi funded Hamas through Qatar, issued a stand, issued a stand down order on 10/7 and lied about beheaded babies.

I was once a fervent supporter of Bibi and Israel but I’ve come to see that Bibi is the absolute worst face of Israel and Judaism.

In any event it’s not Hamas blowing up schools, hospitals, churches and sniping children, that’s Bibi’s End of the World IDF. He’s trying to turn the world agayhis perverted version of Israel. I support Israel and Judaism, I do NOT support Bibi

I'm not getting into this in THIS thread. But everything you've bought into is a distortion on the truth.

If you understood this you wouldn't be deceived

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I'm not getting into this in THIS thread. But everything you've bought into is a distortion on the truth.

If you understood this you wouldn't be deceived

Plans were already in place for Gaza

 

[initforme]

As a lifelong christian i am against infusing religions into governing. That tends to ruin religion. Things are better when they are separated.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

As a lifelong christian i am against infusing religions into governing. That tends to ruin religion. Things are better when they are separated.

That's not the point of the thread
It is about how Satan operates through Mankind. Actually a great topic, but I don't think the OP wants to hear what some of us REALLY think about the deceived

 

[initforme]

That's not the point of the thread
It is about how Satan operates through Mankind. Actually a great topic, but I don't think the OP wants to hear what some of us REALLY think about the deceived

Generally the more wealthy, the more deceitful.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Generally the more wealthy, the more deceitful.

The masses are fully deceived too

 

[initforme]

The masses are fully deceived too

Jesus was all about ensuring we take care of the least among us. As a nation we arent doing so well on that aspect.

 

[BreezeWood]

As a lifelong christian i am against infusing religions into governing. That tends to ruin religion. Things are better when they are separated.

the tyranny of the desert religions manifests itself through their scripted bibles that leads to their historical paths to persecute and victimize the innocent that gov't not that of religious monarchism is simply a means for the innocent to fight back against clerical self interest.

then again - in it for me - does sum up christianity, the other desert religions in a nut shell.

 

[SaxonJackson]

As a lifelong christian i am against infusing religions into governing. That tends to ruin religion. Things are better when they are separated.

From the Library of Congress: (https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel04.html)

"The Continental-Confederation Congress, a legislative body that governed the United States from 1774 to 1789, contained an extraordinary number of deeply religious men. The amount of energy that Congress invested in encouraging the practice of religion in the new nation exceeded that expended by any subsequent American national government. Although the Articles of Confederation did not officially authorize Congress to concern itself with religion, the citizenry did not object to such activities. This lack of objection suggests that both the legislators and the public considered it appropriate for the national government to promote a nondenominational, nonpolemical Christianity.

Congress appointed chaplains for itself and the armed forces, sponsored the publication of a Bible, imposed Christian morality on the armed forces, and granted public lands to promote Christianity among the Indians. National days of thanksgiving and of 'humiliation, fasting, and prayer' were proclaimed by Congress at least twice a year throughout the war. Congress was guided by 'covenant theology,' a Reformation doctrine especially dear to New England Puritans, which held that God bound himself in an agreement with a nation and its people. This agreement stipulated that they 'should be prosperous or afflicted, according as their general Obedience or Disobedience thereto appears.' Wars and revolutions were, accordingly, considered afflictions, as divine punishments for sin, from which a nation could rescue itself by repentance and reformation.

The first national government of the United States, was convinced that the 'public prosperity' of a society depended on the vitality of its religion. Nothing less than a 'spirit of universal reformation among all ranks and degrees of our citizens,' Congress declared to the American people, would 'make us a holy, that so we may be a happy people.'"

The majority of the Founding Fathers were Christians of various denominations.

Too bad that more Christian principles hadn't been incorporated into the Founding Documents.

Want to know more about America's Christian roots?:

 

[initforme]

From the Library of Congress: (https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel04.html)

"The Continental-Confederation Congress, a legislative body that governed the United States from 1774 to 1789, contained an extraordinary number of deeply religious men. The amount of energy that Congress invested in encouraging the practice of religion in the new nation exceeded that expended by any subsequent American national government. Although the Articles of Confederation did not officially authorize Congress to concern itself with religion, the citizenry did not object to such activities. This lack of objection suggests that both the legislators and the public considered it appropriate for the national government to promote a nondenominational, nonpolemical Christianity.

Congress appointed chaplains for itself and the armed forces, sponsored the publication of a Bible, imposed Christian morality on the armed forces, and granted public lands to promote Christianity among the Indians. National days of thanksgiving and of 'humiliation, fasting, and prayer' were proclaimed by Congress at least twice a year throughout the war. Congress was guided by 'covenant theology,' a Reformation doctrine especially dear to New England Puritans, which held that God bound himself in an agreement with a nation and its people. This agreement stipulated that they 'should be prosperous or afflicted, according as their general Obedience or Disobedience thereto appears.' Wars and revolutions were, accordingly, considered afflictions, as divine punishments for sin, from which a nation could rescue itself by repentance and reformation.

The first national government of the United States, was convinced that the 'public prosperity' of a society depended on the vitality of its religion. Nothing less than a 'spirit of universal reformation among all ranks and degrees of our citizens,' Congress declared to the American people, would 'make us a holy, that so we may be a happy people.'"

The majority of the Founding Fathers were Christians of various denominations.

Too bad that more Christian principles hadn't been incorporated into the Founding Documents.

Want to know more about America's Christian roots?:

There are multiple religions here in the us. So then they MUST all get equal representation. Thankful. So thankful, we have zero theocratic principles. Thatd be a disaster.

 

[SaxonJackson]

There are multiple religions here in the us. So then they MUST all get equal representation. Thankful. So thankful, we have zero theocratic principles. Thatd be a disaster.

You don't want to see videos of what Hindus to do Christians or what Muslims do to Christians or what Jews do to Christians when you practice Christianity in THEIR nations or territories. The Founding Fathers did NOT set up America to be a multicultural, melting pot.

Preamble to the U.S. Constitution:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

What does "posterity" mean?"

1. Future generations.
2. All of a person's descendants.
3. The race that proceeds from a progenitor; offspring to the furthest generation; the aggregate number of persons who are descended from an ancestor of a generation; descendants; -- contrasted with ancestry.

The Founding Fathers founded the USA and created the Constitution for themselves and their children and their children.