Zone1 Alpha Male vs a Real Man... Are They the Same Thing?

[initforme]

"Alpha" is a pretty dumb term really. Usually it's used to mean a boorish self-important oaf without any social graces; a bully even.

Liberty's got it I think.

A "real man" is standardly referred to as a male who takes initiative when needed, strength when called for, and intelligence when dealing with life in general. This has nothing to do with ego and narcissism, but everything to do with self-worth and compassion for others.

imo Real men are finishers.

Greg

Real men dont need to leave legacies nor dont need a mate. They are fiercely independent and live as they wish. That defines a real man.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Weirdly specific. Someone you know?

Yeah, I work with him.

 

[gtopa1]

Real men dont need to leave legacies nor dont need a mate. They are fiercely independent and live as they wish. That defines a real man.

"need", no one needs anything really apart from food, water and a loin cloth (loin cloth optional). .
wish...or as they CHOOSE.

"Fiercely.........why not peacefully?

"Live as they wish"................................what does that even mean? As a rock or an island?



Greg

 

[frigidweirdo]

Just because some people have false or ridiculous ideas on what a real man is....doesn't mean that it's entirely subjective. Yes we all have different thoughts and opinions on it... I even stated in the OP that the post is my opinion, I'm not stating it as an objective truth. However.... I think we can all agree on at least SOME things. A real man is not the same thing as a boy, right? And I'm not talking about one's physical body. Let me ask you this. In your view, what differentiates a boy from a man, in the non-physical sense?

Well.... for a 13 year old teenage girl, a 14 year old boy might be a "real man".

But for most adults a man is a man, I don't think we're really discussing what a "man" is. We're discussing what a "real man" is as opposed to a "not real man".

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Thank you for stating that distinction in a clear way. I agree with your take on it. I was going to illustrate what you said with theoretical examples, but it seems to me that most here who replied on this thread see this in a similar way and have already brought up examples.

Btw, this reminds me of a quote that I used recently for my signature. It's a quote by Fyodor Dostoevsky: “It takes something more than intelligence to act intelligently.” I think something similar could be said in regard to this topic. Like you, I believe it comes down to character and wisdom. (which is different than intelligence, and the good news is it's something that anyone can learn and acquire.)

An AI YouTube short but ...
Alpha male or REAL man?

 

[buttercup]

An AI YouTube short but ...
Alpha male or REAL man?

I have to head out the door in a few minutes so I have to be really quick... but I think we all know the answer to your question! Thanks. I'll be back later most likely.

 

[Dekster]

I tend to think that any man who needs to talk about what it means to be a man, especially using themselves, is a tool and probably immature. Men, women, men who think they are women, women who think they are men and all the variations in between have fundamentally the same challenge---getting through the day however they can just so they can wake up tomorrow and do it again until they finally get to retire and wait for the Big C to come looking fer them.

 

[Mashmont]

Young people are becoming more independent and are showing strength by not marrying. A sign of a society getting stronger.

Complete nonsense.

 

[Dragonlady]

"Alpha" is a pretty dumb term really. Usually it's used to mean a boorish self-important oaf without any social graces; a bully even.

Liberty's got it I think.

A "real man" is standardly referred to as a male who takes initiative when needed, strength when called for, and intelligence when dealing with life in general. This has nothing to do with ego and narcissism, but everything to do with self-worth and compassion for others.

imo Real men are finishers.

Greg

You have no clue as to the definition of an alpha male. They are not "boorish, self-important oafs without any social graces" and they are NEVER bullies. You're describing Trump, who is the antithesis of the alpha male.

A true Alpha is a leader, a gentleman/woman, and someone people follow willingly. He or she has no need to bully anyone. They are confident, not arrogant, and they are able to bring out the best in those around them.

 

[Dragonlady]

There is a law in sales, and I will now reveal it.

People don't buy things, they buy benefits.

Apply that to management.
Great managers operate to get benefits.
Not to show off they were hired as the manager.

You never tire of being wrong. What does that even mean the "operate to get benefits"?

Great managers are people who are able to bring out the best in their subordinates, to maximize their output and efficiency. They use knowledge, vision, and communication to establish clear goals, and provide the environment, materials and resources for their employees to achieve them.

 

[Robert W]

You never tire of being wrong. What does that even mean the "operate to get benefits"?

Why would I tire since I have long known what salesmen do?

When you pay for a car, do you deny you pay for benefits? It is easy to name some of them. Getting to places much faster. Being comfortable as you travel. And some want cars for prestige. All benefits.

If not for benefits, any car would do. IT would not matter at all if you had a junk car or a new car.

 

[candycorn]

To me, "Alpha male" denotes a man who has intrinsic leadership characteristics, regardless of the direction that leadership might lead. He is the one who, in a group of men, naturally dominates the conversation, and in any decisions that need to be taken by the group, he is usually the one whose viewpoint carries the day. The late Mr. Hitler of Germany was the most obvious Alpha Male of the past hundred years. He took the people of Germany wherever the **** he wanted to take them.

Trump is an "Alpha male," whether you like him or not. He has taken a whole political party and shifted its focus (foci) in the directions he chose, even as they might conflict with previous Republican thinking.

Contrast this with President Clinton, whose "triangulation" strategy was basically to find the current trend, then rush to the head of it, pretending to lead. He did this with welfare "reform," as you might recall.

Alpha men only work on populations which are predisposed to being lead around by the nose with either:

• No strongly held beliefs. Whatever the leader says is fine because they don’t care to start with.
• Are (or think they are) under constant assault. Usually for good reason. Poor/hideous philosophies. This manifests itself in two forms....
  • Their beliefs/behavior are so grotesque so they are rightfully castigated.
  • Constant comparison to other instances where (they feel) beliefs/behavior was accepted. Usually this is not the case but sometimes it is.

 

[Robert W]

You never tire of being wrong. What does that even mean the "operate to get benefits"?

Great managers are people who are able to bring out the best in their subordinates, to maximize their output and efficiency. They use knowledge, vision, and communication to establish clear goals, and provide the environment, materials and resources for their employees to achieve them.

I had a very long career in management. I had my team tell me in writing what goals they set for themselves for a month. At the end of the month, if they met goals they set, they got a cash bonus. If they failed, they got nothing. If they did more, they got paid for what they had stated earlier. The entire idea was that it got them focused on what they needed to do. And to assist them to earn more money. The results? Production soared. They went from low earners to pretty high earners. In about 3 months.

Driven humans do worse than those who set goals and reach goals they desire.

 

[Robert W]

You're describing Trump, who is the antithesis of the alpha male.

You have no clue at all about Trump. You never met him. You never talked to him. You have judged him based on your personal bias. If you managed others like you manage yourself, you really have a lot to learn.

 

[Robert W]

Alpha men only work on populations which are predisposed to being lead around by the nose with either:

• No strongly held beliefs. Whatever the leader says is fine because they don’t care to start with.
• Are (or think they are) under constant assault. Usually for good reason. Poor/hideous philosophies. This manifests itself in two forms....
  • Their beliefs/behavior are so grotesque so they are rightfully castigated.
  • Constant comparison to other instances where (they feel) beliefs/behavior was accepted. Usually this is not the case but sometimes it is.

That is a cut and paste job, isn't it?

 

[braalian]

Why would I tire since I have long known what salesmen do?

When you pay for a car, do you deny you pay for benefits? It is easy to name some of them. Getting to places much faster. Being comfortable as you travel. And some want cars for prestige. All benefits.

If not for benefits, any car would do. IT would not matter at all if you had a junk car or a new car.

By that logic, isn’t the perceived prestige of being a manager just another benefit of the position?

 

[buttercup]

This thread is showing that we're obviously not all on the same page as to the definition of ‘alpha male.’

Dragonlady is going by a very positive definition.

According to the online dictionaries I went to, the definition is more neutral:

​

"A male individual that is dominant among others" (Oxford English Dictionary)​

​

"the most dominant, powerful, or assertive man in a particular group." (Dictionary.com)​

​

But the whole idea of 'alpha male' is relatively recent, and from what I'm gathering, it's said to be pseudo-science. At least when it's applied in a human context. I think it's more of a pop culture phrase.

Dragonlady, I'm not saying you're wrong, but it seems to me that what you're describing is a true LEADER. This is just my view on it, because even the word 'leader' is neutral... someone's leadership can be good or bad. But in my view, a TRUE leader is someone who leads people in the right direction, and has many of the qualities that some of us have been attributing to a real man. Strength of character, responsibility, trustworthiness, wisdom, courage, humility, etc. So I think what you're doing is defining 'alpha' in the way I define true leader.

 

[EdwinAMartin]

Great managers are people who are able to bring out the best in their subordinates, to maximize their output and efficiency. They use knowledge, vision, and communication to establish clear goals, and provide the environment, materials and resources for their employees to achieve them.

lol just because sociopaths mouth those homilies doesn't mean they actually practice any of it.

 

[EdwinAMartin]

But the whole idea of 'alpha male' is relatively recent, and from what I'm gathering, it's said to be pseudo-science. At least when it's applied in a human context. I think it's more of a pop culture phrase.

Yep.

 

[braalian]

But the whole idea of 'alpha male' is relatively recent, and from what I'm gathering, it's said to be pseudo-science. At least when it's applied in a human context. I think it's more of a pop culture phrase.

Well, there is science to back up the claim that men with high testosterone are more aggressive, more virile, more competitive and physically stronger than other men.

This, of course, might not match your own definition of an “alpha male”, but for many that is indeed the definition