Zone1 Questions for Christians who still put their trust in politicians and the political system

[Carl in Michigan]

so many Christians trust Bibi, who is proactively destroying every Christian Church

THIS is what Satanic deception looks like buttercup

 

[Carl in Michigan]

THIS is what Satanic deception looks like buttercup

Cursaderfrank doesn't think he's among the deceived

 

[Quantrill]

Would you agree that the enemy of God operates through deception?

If your answer is yes....in the context of politics, which of the following scenarios is more likely: that the enemy would honestly present their intentions in a clear, open and truthful way? Or that the enemy would deceive people by presenting something that looks fantastic, but is actually a trojan horse?

What are your thoughts on 2 Corinthians 11:14? Do you interpret it only in a literal way, or do you think it’s also a general statement on how the enemy (plural) tricks people by presenting things that look great on the surface, but aren’t, in reality?

And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.​

I’ll start with those questions.

PS: My timing is probably bad, because I have a meeting with someone at 1 (in about 10 minutes) but when I’m done with that I’ll get back to this thread later. Thanks!

Yes, I agree that the enemy of God operates through deception.

The enemy will attempt to deceive people by presenting something that looks fantastic but is actually a trojan horse.

Yes, I interpret (2 Cor. 11:14) literally.

I believe the emphasis in (2 Cor. 11:14) is false apostles of Christ and not politics. That being said, Satan is equally deceptive in trying to get his people in political office. He is true to his name. And his complete effort in politics is to get his man, the anti-christ in power.

With that as his goal, he will use whatever is necessary. If he knows the vote is leaning a certain way he will work with whatever side that way is, to place a man of his in. In some cases, he doesn't have to deceive. The people are wanting his way, though not knowing it.

Quantrill

 

[buttercup]

The craziest thing is people like buttercup who believe EVERYTHING occurs because EVERYTHING is manipulated by some "powers that shouldn't be" and there is NO DIFFERENCE in the people we choose

But I don't want to derail her thread and will say no more. You obviously also understand the point she is hoping to lead us to

It's incredibly presumptuous to declare what is in someone else's mind, as if you are omniscient. You are wrong, that was not the point I was "hoping to lead" anyone to. I never even thought about Bibi. Or Israel. What I did have in mind was Trump, but even more than that what I had in mind was just the overall enthusiasm and passion many Christians have for partisan politics, and thinking that politics can save our country. And also the deception of 'controlled opposition' in politics and the entire system.

If you're going to go back to being accusatory (in the worst possible ways), presumptuous, angry, etc, then I'm not going to deal with that again. I'll put you back on my unofficial ignore, because I don't just don't need or want that kind of nasty negativity. With friends like that, who needs enemies?

 

[buttercup]

I am of the belief that Christians like me are terribly unaware of the other aspect of life in Sodom and Gomorrah that was revealed in The Book of Jasher that gives us a different angle on the types of sins that can get our city or our nation destroyed.

The Mark of the Beast and the way Sodom treated the poor?​

Zone1 Thread 'The Mark of the Beast and the way Sodom treated the poor?'

Nov 30, 2025

Is there a possible connection between the future Mark of the Beast with the way that the City of Sodom treated the poor?

This is written about in an ancient Jewish Book called "The Book of Jasher."

25 And a poor man came into the city to seek a maintenance, and he remained in the city some days, and all the people of Sodom caused a proclamation of their custom not to give this man a morsel of bread to eat, until he dropped dead upon the earth, and they did so.



26 And Paltith the daughter of Lot saw this man lying in the streets starved with hunger, and no one would give him any...

• DennisPTate
• Replies: 2
• Forum: Religion and Ethics

Interesting. I really want to read the book of Jasher. (And some of the other extra-biblical but biblically endorsed texts.) If you don't mind, can you summarize the point you had in mind, in your own words? I mean, in how it relates to this topic. Thank you.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

THIS is what Satanic deception looks like buttercup

You LAUGHED, buttercup so I can only assume you agree with CrusaderFranks statement

 

[buttercup]

You LAUGHED, buttercup so I can only assume you agree with CrusaderFranks statement

It doesn't logically follow that giving you a laughie necessarily means that I agree with everything he said. But I don't want to get baited into your favorite discussion, that's not what this thread is about. If Crusader Frank wants to elaborate, I hope he does, I'm interested in hearing what he has to say. But that wasn't what I was planning on talking about on this thread.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Would you agree that the enemy of God operates through deception?

yes. The Democrat Party operates thru deception

If your answer is yes....in the context of politics, which of the following scenarios is more likely: that the enemy would honestly present their intentions in a clear, open and truthful way? Or that the enemy would deceive people by presenting something that looks fantastic, but is actually a trojan horse?

Yes. The Democrat Party does this. Everything they do is, "for the children"

What are your thoughts on 2 Corinthians 11:14? Do you interpret it only in a literal way, or do you think it’s also a general statement on how the enemy (plural) tricks people by presenting things that look great on the surface, but aren’t, in reality?

Yes, Satan has infused his spirit in every aspect of humanity EVERY ASPECT.

He has many believing in the most bizarre conspiracy theories. Most deal with bullying "the Jews".

We also see it among atheists who have abandoned God, but sadly, many "Christians are deceived about many things.

 

[buttercup]

yes. The Democrat Party operates thru deception



Yes. The Democrat Party does this. Everything they do is, "for the children"



Yes, Satan has infused his spirit in every aspect of humanity EVERY ASPECT.

He has many believing in the most bizarre conspiracy theories. Most deal with bullying "the Jews".

We also see it among atheists who have abandoned God, but sadly, many "Christians are deceived about many things.

Thank you for answering the specific questions in the OP.

I partially agree with you, but where we disagree is in how deception itself works. You're actually demonstrating my point from yesterday that the enemy doesn't work in a clear, simple, up-front way. If things were that clear and simple, no one would ever be deceived.

You keep forgetting a few things. One, who does the bible say is the lowercase "god of this world" and the "prince and power of the air"? Do you honestly believe that satan (or anyone evil) would only focus on controlling one political party? That is incredibly naive, and it goes against how deception itself works.

You're also forgetting that this is a fallen world and the simple fact of the matter is there are evil people in this world. So your disdain for the whole idea of "conspiracy theories" goes against the fact that this world is not all bunnies and rainbows. From a biblical standpoint, it's temporarily under the influence of evil and sin... and Jesus Himself refers to satan as the (temporary) "ruler of this world."(John 12:31) So, since this is an evil age, run by evil people...it is foolish for any Christian to act as if conspiracies (which simply means an unlawful plan) don't exist, or is a preposterous idea. Of course it shouldn't be taken to other extreme either.

Btw, your "white hat versus black hat" view of the political system goes against the very words of the powers behind the strategies I mentioned. Watch this video. Please take the time to watch the whole thing, it's less than 4 minutes long.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Thank you for answering the specific questions in the OP.

I partially agree with you, but where we disagree is in how deception itself works. You're actually demonstrating my point from yesterday that the enemy doesn't work in a clear, simple, up-front way. If things were that clear and simple, no one would ever be deceived.

You keep forgetting a few things. One, who does the bible say is the lowercase "god of this world" and the "prince and power of the air"? Do you honestly believe that satan (or anyone evil) would only focus on controlling one political party? That is incredibly naive, and it goes against how deception itself works.

You're also forgetting that this is a fallen world and the simple fact of the matter is there are evil people in this world. So your disdain for the whole idea of "conspiracy theories" goes against the fact that this world is not all bunnies and rainbows. From a biblical standpoint, it's temporarily under the influence of evil and sin... and Jesus Himself refers to satan as the (temporary) "ruler of this world."(John 12:31) So, since this is an evil age, run by evil people...it is foolish for any Christian to act as if conspiracies (which simply means an unlawful plan) don't exist, or is a preposterous idea. Of course it shouldn't be taken to other extreme either.

Btw, your "white hat versus black hat" view of the political system goes against the very words of the powers behind the strategies I mentioned. Watch this video. Please take the time to watch the whole thing, it's less than 4 minutes long.

I've forgotten NOTHING.

ALL Mankind is deceived-- including Christianity. Including you. You refuse to understand so much.

I TRIED to make my point about Satan's activity during the days of Hezekiah and Josiah. You dismissed my point and brushed it off as nothing. I think you completely missed it actually

Yeah, I know the point you're trying to lead us to but you started with a LIE. I call it a lie because you've been told by every Christian who responded, but you keep pushing your lie.

The LIE is that we put our faith in Donald Trump and not God. You just keep pushing that lie so until that stops, the ONLY credibility have with me is on your understanding of our relationship with the animals. On that we agree

 

[buttercup]

I've forgotten NOTHING.

ALL Mankind is deceived-- including Christianity. Including you. You refuse to understand so much.

I TRIED to make my point about Satan's activity during the days of Hezekiah and Josiah. You dismissed my point and brushed it off as nothing. I think you completely missed it actually

Yeah, I know the point you're trying to lead us to but you started with a LIE. I call it a lie because you've been told by every Christian who responded, but you keep pushing your lie.

The LIE is that we put our faith in Donald Trump and not God. You just keep pushing that lie so until that stops, the ONLY credibility have with me is on your understanding of our relationship with the animals. On that we agree

You just put words in my mouth and you're once again being incredibly presumptuous. I never said that you put your faith in Trump and not God. That is a nasty, blatant lie. Do you trust Trump? You seem to. Do you trust the political system? Apparently, because you still passionately participate in it. That is what I'm talking about. I'm not necessarily saying you shouldn't trust any politician. But I am saying that we need to understand how the enemy operates, and be much more discerning, especially because more and more as time goes, we're living in a time of great deception.

Now, if you're going to continue to shove words in my mouth, and constantly be so presumptuous, not to mention angry and unnecessarily combative.... then I'm not going to continue this discussion with you. You're the only one on this thread who is acting in that negative, angry, combative way.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

So you're not putting your trust in Trump? Your post sounded like you're giving him the highest vote of confidence

Guess who said this

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Who chose the title for your opening post buttercup?

Questions for Christians who still put their trust in politicians and the political system​

 

[buttercup]

Guess who said this

That post was not to you. And I also said this, a few posts later:

I never claimed that he thinks Trump is as virtuous as Jesus. That wasn't the point at all, the verse was about putting too much trust in mere mortals.

So basically I was saying the same thing I'm saying on this thread. About putting too much trust in mere mortals. WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS, read my current sig.

So again, stop shoving words in my mouth and stop being so extremely and arrogantly presumptuous. If you continue to do that, I'm done here with you.

 

[SaxonJackson]

Would you agree that the enemy of God operates through deception?

If your answer is yes....in the context of politics, which of the following scenarios is more likely: that the enemy would honestly present their intentions in a clear, open and truthful way? Or that the enemy would deceive people by presenting something that looks fantastic, but is actually a trojan horse?

What are your thoughts on 2 Corinthians 11:14? Do you interpret it only in a literal way, or do you think it’s also a general statement on how the enemy (plural) tricks people by presenting things that look great on the surface, but aren’t, in reality?

And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.​

I’ll start with those questions.

PS: My timing is probably bad, because I have a meeting with someone at 1 (in about 10 minutes) but when I’m done with that I’ll get back to this thread later. Thanks!

Yes. I agree. The Bible claims that all men fall short of the glory of God. The Bible tells us that our righteousness "is but filthy rags" before the righteousness of God.

The Bible is clear that we wrestle with "spiritual wickedness in high places":

Ephesians 6:12, "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

The Bible tells us that we should "try the spirits" to see if they align with God:

1 John 4:1, "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."

How do we know if a political leader is in line with God and His plan? We compare his or her actions to the actions of Christ and the Apostles.

The Bible also calls us to be humble and to control our tongue. Current, American leadership (Donald Trump) could NEVER be accused of being a humble man and his tongue is completely OUT OF CONTROL. He also allies himself with "unbelievers." Here's what the Bible says about that:

2 Corinthians 6:14-17, "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you."

A person in modern times would be a complete fool to trust anyone in either the Demican Party or the Republicrat Party. Both have dirty reputations and use bribery, threats, coercion, and bombs to force their personal ideologies on anyone who stands in their way.

 

[BreezeWood]

Would you agree that the enemy of God operates through deception?

the desert bibles are a good example and their acceptance by those that corroborate the deceptions to persecute and victimize the innocent are no different than the authors that wrote those documents.

1 Corinthians 11:14 is a Bible verse where the Apostle Paul questions if it's appropriate for a woman to pray with her head uncovered, stating that nature teaches that long hair on a man is a disgrace, but a glory for a woman, serving as a covering, emphasizing order and cultural propriety in worship.

the beatles, has lennin been canonized a saint ... much as jesus a revival of enlightenment the true heavenly liberation theology, self determination those in the 1st century gave their lives for than the false religions of servitude and denial.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I've found that a lot of believers (mainly online) still enthusiastically participate and put their trust in certain political leaders...whether that's out of a "we have to keep out the other party" mindset, or because they genuinely believe in and admire said political leaders.

Those were the ones I was hoping would answer the questions... But so far, I can see that it has mostly been crickets chirping.

What a great and honest good faith you come to in this discussion, I applaud you.

Christ had no party, and it can be dicey how Christ's message manifests in 17th-20th century America. Of course, that can be completely exploited and used by politicians and rulers.. as it has been at times throughout the history of the Catholic Church. We've had anti-Popes who were controlled by Kings.

As far as American politics is concerned, I don't think any Catholic can make the claim that the Democrat party more aligns with Catholicism than the Republican party. It doesn't make the GOP "holy" in any way, acting holy goes far beyond any law.

I'm a political Conservative, but I seek my religious guidance and inspiration in the Church, not from political leaders. I think nearly all Catholics do the same. I can't claim Protestants and outsiders. I've seen some very religious-oriented praise of Trump... and while Trump can be a tool used to promote certain Catholic ideals, he's a very big sinner like the rest of us. He's no religious leader. We shouldn't seek religious virtue from our political leaders. We should desire our political leaders to stay out of the way as much as possible and not become demagogues. I think some people put too much "faith" in political leaders. Use them for what they're good for, don't seek absolution through them.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

I've seen two types of Christians: Those who isolate themselves from the world and those who are actively engaged in trying to make the world more of a Christian nation. Many of the isolationist types aren't concerned with what's happening in the world. Many of them don't even watch much television, and don't have internet or email. Some of them don't even vote.

More than ever, I'm seeing the Christian "activists". They're well-informed, politically-active, and see God's Word as the ultimate standard for understanding life, truth, and society, challenging relativistic views and focusing on living according to Scripture. They critically evaluate media, culture, and education through a biblical lens, and take a position against postmodernism, relativism, secular humanism, feminism, illegal immigration, socialism, and "interfaith dialog."

And they do vote and run for political offices. The church my wife attends is one of of more than 7,600 churches that sprang up since 2019, when entire congregations disaffiliated themselves with the United Methodist Church, got up, and walked out. They refused to tolerate the UMC's stance on gay weddings, transgenderism, gay pastors, and the UMC's disobeying the the Biblical rules set in their "Book of Discipline."

Absolutely. Christian Populism is on the rise, because their prescriptions for a better society are appealing.

• Oppose Porn
• Value a 2-parent household with dedicated parents
• Value your body
• Challenge yourself, Become better through Christ

Uplifting shit. The left has none of that. It's all doom and gloom.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

So basically I was saying the same thing I'm saying on this thread

And yet you continue to use those words -- then try to worm your way out of these very words

But you just keep IMPLYING that Christians who dare voted for Trump WORSHIP/put their faith in/trust in -- Trump

I think you must be a plant of the "powers that shouldn't be" to weaken Trump support and to help keep this cycle of chaos and anarchy going. My theory makes as much sense as yours

 

[buttercup]

Yes. I agree. The Bible claims that all men fall short of the glory of God. The Bible tells us that our righteousness "is but filthy rags" before the righteousness of God.

The Bible is clear that we wrestle with "spiritual wickedness in high places":

Ephesians 6:12, "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

The Bible tells us that we should "try the spirits" to see if they align with God:

1 John 4:1, "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."

How do we know if a political leader is in line with God and His plan? We compare his or her actions to the actions of Christ and the Apostles.

The Bible also calls us to be humble and to control our tongue. Current, American leadership (Donald Trump) could NEVER be accused of being a humble man and his tongue is completely OUT OF CONTROL. He also allies himself with "unbelievers." Here's what the Bible says about that:

2 Corinthians 6:14-17, "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you."

A person in modern times would be a complete fool to trust anyone in either the Demican Party or the Republicrat Party. Both have dirty reputations and use bribery, threats, coercion, and bombs to force their personal ideologies on anyone who stands in their way.

Excellent points, thank you! I'm glad you brought up the 1 John verse about testing the spirits. That's something that I think all of us sometimes forget, but in this messed up world, it's extremely important. (That actually could be a thread in and of itself.) That reminds me of what Jesus said in Matthew 10:16 - "I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves."

Thanks for all those verses and points, I couldn't agree more.