Would you Follow Him and take his mark?

[surada]

Sorry Preterist, unlike your Bible mine is a living thing , not a simple history book or an allegorically useless jumble of words.

So you follow Scofield . No problem.. That was promoted during the Dust Bowl and the Depression to the poorest, uneducated Americans.

 

[GMCGeneral]

So the mark has nothing to do with anything. Well that's a relief. But you kind of just made your own thread worthless.

No, not actually. As I noted also, the "mark" would be used for all facets of daily life from employment to money handling, etc. Without it, you would be excluded from society.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

No, not actually. As I noted also, the "mark" would be used for all facets of daily life from employment to money handling, etc. Without it, you would be excluded from society.

I meant regarding salvation. Seems to me you avoided my question. I could do everything right, but if i take "the mark" i am doomed. Sounds ridiculous.

 

[The Original Tree]

The Mark is not voluntary.. The whole Roman Empire had to use Roman coin.

Quit regurgitating the same dumb lines on subjects like this. The mark is voluntary and anyone who takes it rejects Christ and will burn in Hell forever same as any heathen pagan.

 

[The Original Tree]

I meant regarding salvation. Seems to me you avoided my question. I could do everything right, but if i take "the mark" i am doomed. Sounds ridiculous.

Same as if you cheat on your wife and she divorces you for just cause.

 

[The Original Tree]

Its in the past not the future.

Your judgment is in the future, unless you repent of your sins in the present.

 

[GMCGeneral]

I meant regarding salvation. Seems to me you avoided my question. I could do everything right, but if i take "the mark" i am doomed. Sounds ridiculous.

Without. Christ, you are doomed already.

 

[buttercup]

I'm not a theologian, and I don't plan on becoming one. I can say however, that from what I have read in the KJV has taught me the timeline of what's to happen. All we need now is the rapture, and those events will kick off. Not one moment sooner.

Although surada's preterism is completely and obviously false, I do have to disagree with you, if you think the rapture takes place before the tribulation.

When you take a closer look at the Bible, the rapture occurs on the last day of this age, at the second coming of Christ.

I think the problem is that many Christians conflate the words tribulation with wrath. They are not the same thing. The Bible is very clear that God's children will not be appointed to wrath, but it doesn't say that we will not go through the tribulation, in fact it says the exact opposite.

The idea of the pre-tribulation rapture is misleading, which btw is why Hollywood promotes it. That in and of itself should be a clue that it is false, if Hollywood is promoting it. It DOES occur, just not prior to the tribulation.

 

[buttercup]

I meant regarding salvation. Seems to me you avoided my question. I could do everything right, but if i take "the mark" i am doomed. Sounds ridiculous.

The thing is, you can't do everything right, on your own. No one can. God's standard is perfection. That is why everyone needs forgiveness and to be born again.

 

[JoeBlow]

What Is the Mark of the Beast? (Revelation 13)

We must be willing to suffer, to give our all for Christ, to persevere until the end in order to obtain the final reward.

www.crossway.org

With the advent of RFID technology, a literal "stamp" would not be that far fetched, as the world is headed full tilt into a cashless society and discrimination against Christians becomes more prevalent, no matter what these Leftist kooks say, unless you are saved, born again, and heaven bound, there is no hope for mankind.

Satan sounds pretty cool, I'd check him out.

 

[Clyde 154]

The Romans worshipped many gods and conquered many lands. They basically didn't care about the Jesus followers. They thought they were just another Jewish sect.

The key here is too look specifically at the brief periods of persecution and where that happened.

The Romans didn't give a fig about how the Jews worshipped as long as they paid their taxes.

Depending on the Jewish faction many got on famously with the Romans. Remember Herod's granddaughter was the mistress of Titus.

Yeah........that must be why Constantine made Christianity the "state religion", Rome did not take notice of Christians.

What Key? The Christians were "consuming" Rome and its dogmatic paganism.....to the point that Christianity totally consumed the Empire by 337 in becoming the official state religion. That's what the entire book of Revelation is about......its a book to demonstrate things shortly to take place.......the persecution, the tribulations, with a message to the churches to have HOPE that God will help the church to overcome. And God made good on His promise. The nation of Biblical Israel was totally destroyed by the Roman Empire just as in prophecy (the Christ said that the kingdom would be lost by the Jews and given to another)..........Rome became the Christian capital of the world. Israel has not existed upon earth for over 2000 years.

Rome completely and totally destroyed the nation of Biblical Israel in the 1st century.......and you say Rome "tolerated" them? There was no nation of Israel (home of the Jews).........the Christian nation was started as "a small remainder of faithful Jews who accepted the Messiahship of Jesus"........the rest fell based upon their own ignorance of prophecy, and can still today be grafted back into the vine by simply accepting the truth first delivered by Jesus. Jews are saved the same way all other peoples of earth are saved, via accepting the Truth delivered by God and allowing Jesus to be an advocate for our sin......standing between God and our sin.

The nation calling itself Israel today is a fake, a knock off and in no way resembles Biblical Israel.........its as the scriptures declare. Will you be marked by the Beast with "666" always searching for truth but searching within the ideas of men, making that type of worship based upon the ideas of men instead of the truth found in scripture? The mark 666 simply represents an uncompleted task.......imperfect worship because its all based upon the tradition of men instead of God's revealed will.

 

[The Original Tree]

Although surada's preterism is completely and obviously false, I do have to disagree with you, if you think the rapture takes place before the tribulation.

When you take a closer look at the Bible, the rapture occurs on the last day of this age, at the second coming of Christ.

I think the problem is that many Christians conflate the words tribulation with wrath. They are not the same thing. The Bible is very clear that God's children will not be appointed to wrath, but it doesn't say that we will not go through the tribulation, in fact it says the exact opposite.

The idea of the pre-tribulation rapture is misleading, which btw is why Hollywood promotes it. That in and of itself should be a clue that it is false, if Hollywood is promoting it. It DOES occur, just not prior to the tribulation.

That is equally absurd.

1.) The believers return with Christ at the end of The Tribulation after a 7 year long wedding feast in Heaven. See the parable of the 7 wise and 7 foolish virgins.

2.) If all the Christians are to go through The Tribulation, then why does God need an Angel broadcasting the gospel from our atmosphere? No need to do that, Christians can do that on the radio and TV etc.

3.) If all the Christians are here during The Rapture then they would nearly equal or outnumber non believers and there would be too much resistance to the establishment of The AntiChrist Global Government and World Cashless Economic System, and establishment of The Mark. Look at how much resistance there is now to mandatory vaccinations. People will revolt and fight back, and fight for their lives if they have to. If most of the Christians are gone, everyone else will comply. Remember that word, "COMPLIANCE"! You will here it more and more as the time approaches.

4.) There are plenty of Messianic Christian Jews right now to preach the gospel to other Jews. If Christians are here during The Tribulation, God does not need 144,000 Jewish evangelists to preach the gospel during The Great Tribulation.

5.) If all the Christians are here during The Tribulation then the whole world would not be celebrating the death of the Two Witnesses and exchanging presents like it's Christmas when God allows them to be overcome, only to resurrect them on the 3rd day with the whole world watching.

6.) The scriptures say that the end times Christians will be spared from The Wrath of God, and The Tribulation is precisely that. Why would God send us through The Tribulation, only to come at the very end, resurrect the Christian Dead, and Rapture The Living Christians with them, only to do a U Turn, and ride right back to Earth with Christ upon His Return?

 

[The Original Tree]

Yeah........that must be why Constantine made Christianity the "state religion", Rome did not take notice of Christians.

What Key? The Christians were "consuming" Rome and its dogmatic paganism.....to the point that Christianity totally consumed the Empire by 337 in becoming the official state religion. That's what the entire book of Revelation is about......its a book to demonstrate things shortly to take place.......the persecution, the tribulations, with a message to the churches to have HOPE that God will help the church to overcome. And God made good on His promise. The nation of Biblical Israel was totally destroyed by the Roman Empire just as in prophecy (the Christ said that the kingdom would be lost by the Jews and given to another)..........Rome became the Christian capital of the world. Israel has not existed upon earth for over 2000 years.

Rome completely and totally destroyed the nation of Biblical Israel in the 1st century.......and you say Rome "tolerated" them? There was no nation of Israel (home of the Jews).........the Christian nation was started as "a small remainder of faithful Jews who accepted the Messiahship of Jesus"........the rest fell based upon their own ignorance of prophecy, and can still today be grafted back into the vine by simply accepting the truth first delivered by Jesus. Jews are saved the same way all other peoples of earth are saved, via accepting the Truth delivered by God and allowing Jesus to be an advocate for our sin......standing between God and our sin.

The nation calling itself Israel today is a fake, a knock off and in no way resembles Biblical Israel.........its as the scriptures declare. Will you be marked by the Beast with "666" always searching for truth but searching within the ideas of men, making that type of worshiping based upon the ideas of men instead of the truth found in scripture? The mark 666 simply represents an uncompleted task.......imperfect worship because its all based upon the tradition of men instead of God's revealed will.

You really should burn your Bible and leave the Cult you go to. God did not say He would leave Israel, or nullify The Abrahamic Covenant. He said He would Provoke Israel to Jealousy by taking the gospel to The Gentiles and blessing any Christian Gentile Nations that honored God until the End of The Time of Gentiles was fulfilled. Then Prophecy will focus on Israel again.

In Isaiah 50 The Lord asks Israel "Where is the bill of divorce?" Because there is none. It's Israel who has departed from God, but God will still redeem them. The Lord declares that His Salvation is forever.

 

[buttercup]

The scriptures say that the end times Christians will be spared from The Wrath of God, and The Tribulation is precisely that.

No, that is where you're wrong, the tribulation and the wrath are not the same thing. Christians are not appointed to God's wrath, it doesn't say we will not go through the tribulation.

Why would God send us through The Tribulation, only to come at the very end, resurrect the Christian Dead, and Rapture The Living Christians with them, only to do a U Turn, and ride right back to Earth with Christ upon His Return?[/B]

There is no U turn, why would Jesus need to "ride right back to Earth" when He is already there at the second coming? It all happens on the last day, at the second coming of Christ.

As a matter of fact, it is the pre-trib view that creates U turns and absurdity, because you're saying that God comes to rapture His people then makes a U turn back to heaven then comes back agan 7 years later. Which makes it not a second coming of Christ, but a third.

I'm going to send you a couple things on this topic, one is a documentary and the other is an audio on this. Please look and listen to them.

 

[The Original Tree]

No, that is where you're wrong, the tribulation and the wrath are not the same thing. Christians are not appointed to God's wrath, it doesn't say we will not go through the tribulation.



There is no U turn, why would Jesus need to "ride right back to Earth" when He is already there at the second coming? It all happens on the last day, at the second coming of Christ.

As a matter of fact, it is the pre-trib view that creates U turns and absurdity, because you're saying that God comes to rapture His people then makes a U turn back to heaven then comes back agan 7 years later. Which makes it not a second coming of Christ, but a third.

I'm going to send you a couple things on this topic, one is a documentary and the other is an audio on this. Please look and listen to them.

Hate to break it to you but The Wrath of God is poured out in 7 seal judgments, 7 bowl judgments, and 7 trumpet judgments during the tribulation.

And do you know what the scroll is with the 7 seals on it Christ holds in His hand to start it all?

It's the deed and title to Earth that Adam forfeited in The Garden of Eden, and opening the first seal begins the process of The Son of Man, the 2nd Adam taking back His inheritance and establishing His Kingdom and His Throne, The Throne of David as an heir to David and to Adam. That is why Jesus Genealogy is given in The New Testament, to prove He is the rightful heir.

God does not pour out his wrath on the righteous. He removed Lot from Sodom, He preserved Noah and his family in the Ark. The 7 wise virgins kept oil for their lamps and were taken in to the wedding feast, while the 7 foolish virgins were left behind in the dark. The Groom, The Holy One of Israel will come for His Bride, and will remove His Bride and take Her in to The Marriage Feast of The Lamb before He pours out His Wrath on a wicked world and The AntiChrist Kingdom and his followers.

Will there be persecution" Yes.

Will we see signs of the coming Tribulation? Yes.

The Marriage Supper of The Lamb does not occur on Earth after The Return of Christ and establishment of The Millennial Kingdom. The Marriage Supper of The Lamb is in Heaven and occurs during The Tribulation, and His Bride goes where The Groom goes when Christ returns to Earth, The Bride comes with Him.

 

[The Original Tree]

No, that is where you're wrong, the tribulation and the wrath are not the same thing. Christians are not appointed to God's wrath, it doesn't say we will not go through the tribulation.



There is no U turn, why would Jesus need to "ride right back to Earth" when He is already there at the second coming? It all happens on the last day, at the second coming of Christ.

As a matter of fact, it is the pre-trib view that creates U turns and absurdity, because you're saying that God comes to rapture His people then makes a U turn back to heaven then comes back agan 7 years later. Which makes it not a second coming of Christ, but a third.

I'm going to send you a couple things on this topic, one is a documentary and the other is an audio on this. Please look and listen to them.

Christ never touches down on Earth for The Rapture. So it's not really a return is it? He resurrects the dead believers and we who are alive are caught up with Him.

Start reading your Bible instead of listen to The Doctrines of Men.

If you want to call the Rapture one of the returns and say Christ comes to Earth 3 times, that's no big deal. God likes the number 3, so no surprise there. Maybe to you, but not to anyone who studies scripture.

 

[buttercup]

Hate to break it to you but The Wrath of God is poured out in 7 seal judgments, 7 bowl judgments, and 7 trumpet judgments.

God does not pour out his wrath on the righteous.

I just said that! Did you not read my post? I just finished saying that God's wrath is not appointed to His children. Reread my post. I agree with you on that!

My point was that the wrath and the tribulation are not the same thing.

 

[buttercup]

Christ never touches down on Earth for The Rapture. So it's not really a return is it? He resurrects the dead believers and we who are alive are caught up with Him.

Start reading your Bible instead of listen to The Doctrines of Men.

Actually, you are believing a doctrine of man, and Hollywood.

You are believing a doctrine that was unheard of before the mid-1800s. Why, because it's not biblical. Don't get me wrong, the rapture WILL occur, just not before the tribulation. Take a look at the things I sent you.

 

[Anathema]

…no matter what these Leftist kooks say, unless you are saved, born again, and heaven bound, there is no hope for mankind

I spent 27 year, 1 month and 5 days believing and living that lie.

The 20 years and 2 days since I gave up on that lie have been far more reasonable and made much more sense.

Mankind is already doomed by our unwillingness to accept that the simple, traditional answers to Society’s questions ARE the correct ones.

 

[JohnDB]

Now these two methods seem to be referencing how ancient coins were stamped...
In the Old Testament priests used to wear a turban with a blue cord and a gold coin to hold this together and tightly upon his head...
The gold coin was marked (by stamping) "Holy to the Lord" in Hebrew lettering so that they would be exempt from God's wrath when bringing sins to God for forgiveness...

A priest wasn't caught without the seal on his forehead because to do so would incur God's wrath for stuff he didn't do...kinda scary.