why believers in the one and only God, should not neglect serving the poor

[Lonestar_logic]

The Bible tells us that ""If a man will not work, he shall not eat.", therefore a great disservice is being done when money or food is given to this man.

the Bible also says that all farmers should leave 10%+ of their fruit and veggies for the poor to be able to come in and pick for their own food.

many on food stamps DO WORK, and only those that work can even get the EICredit.... so not all the things you and others mentioned even relate to your Bible passage?

and maybe if we as individuals were more giving, the gvt would not be involved....??? who knows?

I do agree that SOME people scam the system.

Some people scam the system?!?

It's a whole lot more than SOME. I can't tell you how often I see people buying groceries with food stamps and then loading up in their Escalades with 22 inch rims.

Those few that do work, work under the table and pay no taxes, nevermind getting EIC.

It's funny that you mention " if we as individuals were more giving, the gvt would not be involved " because I don't see how being forced to pay taxes that end up funding lazy fucks with no incentive to better themselves would be considered "giving".

You take the govt. completely out of the picture and the poor in this country would be better off.

 

[THE LIGHT]

The Bible tells us that ""If a man will not work, he shall not eat.", therefore a great disservice is being done when money or food is given to this man.

the Bible also says that all farmers should leave 10%+ of their fruit and veggies for the poor to be able to come in and pick for their own food.

Yes, you are right it does say that, however, there are 2 very important things to take note to in that statement.

1) it doesn't say to give the 10% of the fruit & veggies to the government. It says to give it to the poor.

2) it doesn't say to pick it for them and place it in their mouth. It says to "leave" it so the poor can WORK for their own food even though they don't own property. The "work for food" part of the equation didn't leave the picture. If the poor people refuse to go out and pick the food they won't eat.

and maybe if we as individuals were more giving, the gvt would not be involved....??? who knows?

Actually, the other way around. If the government took less, people would be more giving.

The government is involved because it buys them votes not because they intend on helping the poor.

 

[Avatar4321]

You take the govt. completely out of the picture and the poor in this country would be better off.

They would be better off, because we would be forced to take responsibility for ourselves and for our neighbors instead of expecting someone else to do it.

 

[Avatar4321]

and maybe if we as individuals were more giving, the gvt would not be involved....??? who knows?

Perhaps if the government didn't take 1/3 of our money we could give more. Maybe if we didn't have to work until April to pay off the government, we would be able to provide more service for others and maybe the "poor" wouldn't be poor in the first place and able to survive without any assistance from others.

We need to stop outsourcing our responsibilities to the government. The Lord has commanded us to serve our fellow man. Not give up our freedom so that politicians can pretend to serve our fellow man while complaining that not enough of our resources are going towards it.

Who should control how our resources better our fellow man? Some bueauacrat? Or us?

Our personal ministries should be a dedication our own time, talents, and money to God and should not include governments at all.

 

[Gadawg73]

The Bible tells us that ""If a man will not work, he shall not eat.", therefore a great disservice is being done when money or food is given to this man.

the Bible also says that all farmers should leave 10%+ of their fruit and veggies for the poor to be able to come in and pick for their own food.

many on food stamps DO WORK, and only those that work can even get the EICredit.... so not all the things you and others mentioned even relate to your Bible passage?

and maybe if we as individuals were more giving, the gvt would not be involved....??? who knows?

I do agree that SOME people scam the system.

Wait a minute. You do know that the grocery lobby basically runs the food stamp program. There was another program, which would have cost 1/3 of what the current food stamp program costs, that was the initial program many moons ago and it was a delivery system wholesale. And the grocery lobby killed it.
Food stamp program is a retail program at the grocery store. I oppose all of it. Every penny spent. Retail program should not be what delivers food to allegedly hungry folks.
If you have a big screen TV and cell phone you should not be receiving any government help.

 

[Avatar4321]

Wait a minute. You do know that the grocery lobby basically runs the food stamp program. There was another program, which would have cost 1/3 of what the current food stamp program costs, that was the initial program many moons ago and it was a delivery system wholesale. And the grocery lobby killed it.
Food stamp program is a retail program at the grocery store. I oppose all of it. Every penny spent. Retail program should not be what delivers food to allegedly hungry folks.
If you have a big screen TV and cell phone you should not be receiving any government help.

People in need should recieve food from their neighbors, their Church leaders, their family (most of all), from people in their community. Not from a government program through the grocery store. Unless the grocery store is donating the food, then they should be recieving it from elsewhere.

 

[Care4all]

Wait a minute. You do know that the grocery lobby basically runs the food stamp program. There was another program, which would have cost 1/3 of what the current food stamp program costs, that was the initial program many moons ago and it was a delivery system wholesale. And the grocery lobby killed it.
Food stamp program is a retail program at the grocery store. I oppose all of it. Every penny spent. Retail program should not be what delivers food to allegedly hungry folks.
If you have a big screen TV and cell phone you should not be receiving any government help.

People in need should recieve food from their neighbors, their Church leaders, their family (most of all), from people in their community. Not from a government program through the grocery store. Unless the grocery store is donating the food, then they should be recieving it from elsewhere.

I think churches should help them and why they are not able to reach them with their givings, is not understood by me....

but as far as friends and family goes, MOST poor people, live amongst other poor people and have poor families as well, that are not in the position to be able to help their own family members because they can hardly feed themselves.

If I were in a situation where I needed food, my parents or my sister would be able to come to my rescue and I believe this is the case for most middle class people like me and the hubby....their family can help in the tough and rough times, and I would bet that they DO HELP their family members in need.

I think instead of the government paying some farmers to NOT grow food, they should use that money to grow food, for the needy....

and I think that all farmers should allow 10% of their crops to be picked by the needy to feed the needy, instead of letting their scraps lay idle in their fields or on the ground under their fruit trees...

 

[Avatar4321]

and I think that all farmers should allow 10% of their crops to be picked by the needy to feed the needy, instead of letting their scraps lay idle in their fields or on the ground under their fruit trees...

That would be good. A tithe of our crops would be good. I also think we should be growing food for ourselves and for others. Many of us might not be able to alot of growing ourselves, but we should do some. How much of our land goes idle? I would guess alot.

Obviously all land shouldn't (or can't) be used for producing crops. But we should be using more than we currently are to help ourselves and the needy.

 

[Avatar4321]

I think churches should help them and why they are not able to reach them with their givings, is not understood by me....

Alot of the churches nowadays have been corrupted. Some aren't preaching the Word, but their own ideas and doctrines.

Some just haven't realized the power they have to help the needy.

I think it's time we helped reenergize the Churches who can do much more good in the world. It's time that people of faith actually step up and start living their faith. And part of that is helping the poor and needy, the sick and afflicted, we need to step up. Even if we can't do much, the Lord can do great things with a small amount from everyone.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

The Bible tells us that ""If a man will not work, he shall not eat.", therefore a great disservice is being done when money or food is given to this man.

the Bible also says that all farmers should leave 10%+ of their fruit and veggies for the poor to be able to come in and pick for their own food.

Yes, you are right it does say that, however, there are 2 very important things to take note to in that statement.

1) it doesn't say to give the 10% of the fruit & veggies to the government. It says to give it to the poor.

2) it doesn't say to pick it for them and place it in their mouth. It says to "leave" it so the poor can WORK for their own food even though they don't own property. The "work for food" part of the equation didn't leave the picture. If the poor people refuse to go out and pick the food they won't eat.

and maybe if we as individuals were more giving, the gvt would not be involved....??? who knows?

Actually, the other way around. If the government took less, people would be more giving.

The government is involved because it buys them votes not because they intend on helping the poor.

What you're missing is the fact that men have free will and the giving should be voluntary not forced through govt. programs

And again I think your looking at the OLD Testament, which no longer applies under the new covenant.

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."—Jeremiah 31:31-34

 

[The Infidel]

Good post.

However, I do not think you will get an argument from anyone who is not a troll, about whether or not we should serve the poor. The argument you WILL get is what constitutes serving them. Does handing them a pittance of free food and cash constitute serving them or does forcing them to get back to work constitute serving them. For me, I think the answer to that is somewhere in between the two extremes.

Immie

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

Slavery has been abolished for quite some time, so no one is "forced" to work. Either you work or you become a parasite living off your fellow man.

that's such a great 'line'.....you would THINK that God would have included it in His passages on the treatment of the poor by the wealthiest....wonder why God never mentioned it? Or even anything resembling it?

If one (rich or poor) is a true "christian" or follower of Christ's principles.... you wont NEED to be told to help your neighbor (rich or poor). It comes naturally....

 

[The Infidel]

I think churches should help them and why they are not able to reach them with their givings, is not understood by me....

Every church I have ever been involved with for any length of time has always had a program to help folks in their area.

We do this without the government telling how much and to whom we give....imagine that!

 

[Immanuel]

I think churches should help them and why they are not able to reach them with their givings, is not understood by me....

Every church I have ever been involved with for any length of time has always had a program to help folks in their area.

We do this without the government telling how much and to whom we give....imagine that!

To be honest with you, I don't think today's church (if the church ever has) gives sacrificially as it should. Too many churches have programs that donate here and there to certain causes, but none of the ones I know of truly give sacrificially.

I must admit mine doesn't seem to.

And then there are the mega churches that the pastors seem to encourage their "flock" to give sacrificially... and the pastors live in mansions and drive a different Cadillac every day.

Immie

 

[Douger]

In fact, God gave specific commandments otherwise: Thou shalt not steal & Thou shalt not covet.

Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's.

Matthew 22:21

Considering this quotation by Jesus was specifically in regards to Jews paying taxes, it shows that, yes, the Bible does advocate taxation and, as in this country, using the money gathered to help the poor. Nowhere does it say that a system of taxes is wrong.

Problem is The Great Satan uses many of those tax dollars to slaughter innocent people.
You can feed monkeys in Ethiopia but don't dare try it in West Va. That would be so...so...so...SOCIALISM
Uh murkins worst nightmare. Using the tax dollars paid in to help fellow citizens.

 

[Avatar4321]

I think churches should help them and why they are not able to reach them with their givings, is not understood by me....

Every church I have ever been involved with for any length of time has always had a program to help folks in their area.

We do this without the government telling how much and to whom we give....imagine that!

To be honest with you, I don't think today's church (if the church ever has) gives sacrificially as it should. Too many churches have programs that donate here and there to certain causes, but none of the ones I know of truly give sacrificially.

I must admit mine doesn't seem to.

And then there are the mega churches that the pastors seem to encourage their "flock" to give sacrificially... and the pastors live in mansions and drive a different Cadillac every day.

Immie

I'm curious what you mean by give sacrificially. Can you expound on that?

 

[Immanuel]

Every church I have ever been involved with for any length of time has always had a program to help folks in their area.

We do this without the government telling how much and to whom we give....imagine that!

To be honest with you, I don't think today's church (if the church ever has) gives sacrificially as it should. Too many churches have programs that donate here and there to certain causes, but none of the ones I know of truly give sacrificially.

I must admit mine doesn't seem to.

And then there are the mega churches that the pastors seem to encourage their "flock" to give sacrificially... and the pastors live in mansions and drive a different Cadillac every day.

Immie

I'm curious what you mean by give sacrificially. Can you expound on that?

I'll try but no promises that it will be any clearer.

By sacrificially, I mean more than just the "put a ten in the plate as it goes by" kind of giving. I mean Christians reaching into their checkbooks and really giving what they expect to get back from God. Too much of our giving stops at the 10% mark because, that is all God asks for and truthfully, I don't know that most Christians even give that. I know when it comes to giving I fail too.

We are not required to give at all to receive our salvation, but we do prove our faith by the works we undertake. I'm sure I should back that up with Bible references, but I am pushed for time.

Anyway, I am sure this is not a satisfactory answer, perhaps you can help me with it, but it is a first attempt at answering your question.

Immie

 

[Avatar4321]

I'll try but no promises that it will be any clearer.

By sacrificially, I mean more than just the "put a ten in the plate as it goes by" kind of giving. I mean Christians reaching into their checkbooks and really giving what they expect to get back from God. Too much of our giving stops at the 10% mark because, that is all God asks for and truthfully, I don't know that most Christians even give that. I know when it comes to giving I fail too.

We are not required to give at all to receive our salvation, but we do prove our faith by the works we undertake. I'm sure I should back that up with Bible references, but I am pushed for time.

Anyway, I am sure this is not a satisfactory answer, perhaps you can help me with it, but it is a first attempt at answering your question.

Immie

Heck, I think if we could get the faithful to faithfully and willingly tithe just their 10%, the Lord would pour our miracles on us as a people. But yes, we should be giving more than that if we can. We should be giving of our surplus.

Course to give of our surplus we need surplus. Which means we need to spend less than what we take in.

 

[JenT]

The Bible tells us that ""If a man will not work, he shall not eat.", therefore a great disservice is being done when money or food is given to this man.

the Bible also says that all farmers should leave 10%+ of their fruit and veggies for the poor to be able to come in and pick for their own food.

Yes, you are right it does say that, however, there are 2 very important things to take note to in that statement.

1) it doesn't say to give the 10% of the fruit & veggies to the government. It says to give it to the poor.

2) it doesn't say to pick it for them and place it in their mouth. It says to "leave" it so the poor can WORK for their own food even though they don't own property. The "work for food" part of the equation didn't leave the picture. If the poor people refuse to go out and pick the food they won't eat.

and maybe if we as individuals were more giving, the gvt would not be involved....??? who knows?

Actually, the other way around. If the government took less, people would be more giving.

The government is involved because it buys them votes not because they intend on helping the poor.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Good post.

However, I do not think you will get an argument from anyone who is not a troll, about whether or not we should serve the poor. The argument you WILL get is what constitutes serving them. Does handing them a pittance of free food and cash constitute serving them or does forcing them to get back to work constitute serving them. For me, I think the answer to that is somewhere in between the two extremes.

Immie

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

Slavery has been abolished for quite some time, so no one is "forced" to work. Either you work or you become a parasite living off your fellow man.

that's such a great 'line'.....you would THINK that God would have included it in His passages on the treatment of the poor by the wealthiest....wonder why God never mentioned it? Or even anything resembling it?

And nowhere does it say you should force anyone or be forced to help the poor.

It does say to give in secret and you will be rewarded openly.

 

[Care4all]

Tithing was by force and so was the requirement for farmers to open their fields to the poor....Jesus did NOT speak out against these things that were happening...

Tithing was a TAX in the name of religion...