When is an embryo/fetus a human life?

[TemplarKormac]

Anencephaly

Anencephaly is a birth defect in which a baby is born without parts of the brain and skull.

www.cdc.gov

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Florida Court rules against parents in Baby Theresa case - UPI Archives

The Florida Supreme Court said Thursday that organs may not be taken for transplant from infants born without fully developed brains as long as the infants...

www.upi.com

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https://x.com/i/grok/share/A8LHtY8rEduouJ8gM0TJFlrle

Not allowing Grok to explain isn't fair. I'm not attacking you, I just like to see thorough explanations. Even so, I prefer the scientific definition of what a natural person is over the legal one. Established science is undeniable.

 

[Midnight FM]

Not allowing Grok to explain isn't fair. I'm not attacking you, I just like to see thorough explanations. Even so, I view the scientific definition of what a natural person is over the legal one. Established science is undeniable.

"Natural person" is legal definition, and evidence indicates that simply "having DNA" does not make it a human life.

 

[TemplarKormac]

No it isn't. It's simply preventing a potential life from coming into existence (which is often a good thing), not taking a life which actually exists.

If you prevent a species from procreating, it dies. Employing a process that leads to a lethal result. Not only does the existing life go extinct, but no further life can be created.

 

[Midnight FM]

If you prevent a species from procreating, it dies.

Only if you prevent every member of a species from procreating. The species can continue just find if only some people don't procreate.

Employing a process that leads to a lethal result.

Some people not procreating doesn't lead to a lethal result. That would only be the case if everyone chose not to procreate, and that won't happen. Downsizing a population is a perfectly good thing, and can aid survival and quality of life. We're fortunate that the average person has only 2 children today, when in the past the number was higher, as were deaths during pregnancy and infant mortality.

Not only does the existing life go extinct, but no further life can be created.

And? The law doesn't agree with you. People can't be charged with murder simply for not procreating. A person who has 2 children, who could have had 5 won't be charged with 3 counts of murder.

Murder is taking a life which actually exists, not simply electing not to bring a life into existence.

 

[Chuz Life]

You have to have a reason to restrict a woman’s liberty involving harm to you and potential harm to society in general if her liberty is not taken from her for willfully terminating her own pregnancy

You cant make a case and if you put it to a simple majority vote the only state that possibly would ban the medical procedure of abortion would be ArkansasView attachment 1141436

View attachment 1141437

Say it with me. Children are entitled to the equal protection of our laws.

It's not contingent upon the results of a popular vote.

 

[Chuz Life]

Cause and effect.

For example. There are materials to build a fire. If you take away the critical components to build it, there will be no fire.

If you clip a bird's wings, it will die in the wild.

If you have all the components for conception (sperm, egg, etc.), and you sterilize the egg, there will be no life; if you sterilize the sperm, there is no life. Destroying critical components for life is tantamount to taking life.

We have the technology to ensure that conception takes place correctly, so given that, destroying the critical components is tantamount to taking a life...

Potential lives do not have actual bodies.

A human being, even in the zygote, embryo and fetal stages of their life, growth and development DO have a body.

Prevention is not a homicide.

 

[Chuz Life]

Not allowing Grok to explain isn't fair. I'm not attacking you, I just like to see thorough explanations. Even so, I prefer the scientific definition of what a natural person is over the legal one. Established science is undeniable.

I pasted the link to the conversation with Grok.

Here it is again.

https://x.com/i/grok/share/TAJPuvuxqu0Z1WGytTRrWRLYp

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Children are entitled to the equal protection of our laws.

A unwanted fetus is entitled to no protection when on biological life support so you have no authority to decide that except in your own uterus if you have one. You make claims, but you do not make a case for how you are harmed.

 

[Chuz Life]

A unwanted fetus is entitled to no protection so you have no authority to decide that except in your own uterus if you have one. You make claims, but you do not make a case for how you are harmed.

You can't admit that a child in the fetal stage of their life, growth and development is a child WHILE they are at that point in their lifr. Can you.

Side question. Were you conceived?

I know that I was.

 

[Chuz Life]

A unwanted fetus is entitled to no protection when on biological life support so you have no authority to decide that except in your own uterus if you have one. You make claims, but you do not make a case for how you are harmed.

I understand those are words and feels and desires. . . .

But I have to also consider what the Supreme Court has said about it in the past, when they anticipated what the child's rights might be, once a State establishes that the child is a "person."

 

[Mack Brazile]

I'm not convinced that it is a human life from the moment of conception (given that it doesn't have a brain, for example), but at some point during pregnancy, I believe it qualifies as a human life.

If people are merely arguing that it is a "potential life" from the moment of conception, then preventing a potential life from coming into existence obviously isn't the same as taking a life from existence. (If that was true, then if a person only has 2 children when they have the ability to have 5 means they should be charged with 3 counts of murder, and we know that is absurd).

who gives a ****

 

[Mac1958]

We all have our definitions. Mine:

• "Human life" - Conception. It's obviously living, growing human tissue
• "A Human Life" - First heartbeat, approximately 6 weeks
• "Viable Human Life" - Around 22-24 weeks
• "Person" - Birth

Since abortion has been brought up, I'd agree with Republican Lyndsey Graham's 16-week limit approach. 12-16 weeks should be enough time for such a difficult decision.

 

[Chuz Life]

who gives a ****

Damn. Why didn't I just say that!

 

[Chuz Life]

We all have our definitions. Mine:

• "Human life" - Conception. It's obviously living, growing human tissue
• "A Human Life" - First heartbeat, approximately 6 weeks
• "Viable Human Life" - Around 22-24 weeks
• "Person" - Birth

Since abortion has been brought up, I'd agree with Republican Lyndsey Graham's 16-week limit approach. 12-16 weeks should be enough time for such a difficult decision.

So, it's not about the facts that prove it's a human life? It's about compromises and how much you (at least in this case) can stomach and or justify?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

You have to have a reason to restrict a woman’s liberty involving harm to you and potential harm to society in general if her liberty is not taken from her for willfully terminating her own pregnancy

You cant make a case and if you put it to a simple majority vote the only state that possibly would ban the medical procedure of abortion would be ArkansasView attachment 1141436

View attachment 1141437

The Right to Life is a fundamental RIGHT protected by the Constitution. This is why we are NOT A DEMOCRACY
A CONSTITUTIONALLY LIMITED REPUBLIC protects the helpless individual from the monsters among us who would trample their basic rights

 

[whutTHEYsay]

I understand those are words and feels and desires. . . .

But I have to also consider what the Supreme Court has said about it in the past, when they anticipated what the child's rights might be, once a State establishes that the child is a "person."

You have a serious intellectual and spiritual failing if you thought the Republican Party was going to deliver fetal personhood for your fundamentalist belief in Christianity being the Laws of the land - Trump only wanted your VOTE and your money nothing more.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

The Right to Life is a fundamental RIGHT protected by the Constitution. This is why we are NOT A DEMOCRACY
A CONSTITUTIONALLY LIMITED REPUBLIC protects the helpless individual from the monsters among us who would trample their basic rights

not if you are a woman married to the current Epstein pedophile sex groupie or gropee groomer president of the United States of America, who said the Florida six week abortion ban was stupid, which means any thought that a six week fetus is a person protected by the constitution is a stupid idea – according to Donald Trump and his grifter wife

And you probably voted for that pedophile asshole

 

[whutTHEYsay]

A CONSTITUTIONALLY LIMITED REPUBLIC protects the helpless individual from the monsters among us who would trample their basic rights

Why did you vote for this monster’s husband?

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

Even if the most intellectually basic animal can recognize their own species in the womb, then it stands to reason we do too. The problem is that with homo sapiens, we are so intelligent that we can say or do things that manipulate the thoughts or actions of others. Namely, this idea that what's in the womb of a woman is not human, even though it shares human DNA.

Liberals always claim they're pro-science, but when it comes to abortion and gender, they're about as clueless as a three-year-old with a book of matches.

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VERY well said!


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[Grumblenuts]

^Said one moron to another.