What is Zionism?

[JoeB131]

So, it took the Jewish people 3000 thousand years to regain sovereignty over her land. But she did it.

You mean it took 3000 years for hte Jews to con the world into thinking they deserved a land... but everyone is already regretting the mistake.

Would you stop and listen to yourself? The Jewish people have NOT lost the Hebrew. The Hebrew language was never lost. It was spoken and read continuously throughout the diaspora. It is read now throughout the diaspora. It was read and understood and spoken by me, and by millions of Jews worldwide to celebrate the new year. AND it is a living language in Israel today.

That's kind of like saying the Western World never lost Latin because they kept speaking it in Church.

And further, are you saying that if European invaders and colonizers of Canada just put First Nations peoples in English-speaking, religious schools and REMOVED their language and culture from them that the First Nations peoples would lose all of their human rights?!

NOt really the same thing. And bluntly, I think the stupidest thing some of these first nations groups to is try to pretend the modern world didn't happen to them. Ever been to a reservation? They are government mandated slums... at least until they put Casinos on them. Now they are slums with casinos.

But at least the First Nations aren't invading someone else's land and treating them like second class citizens like the Zionists are.

 

[JoeB131]

This may come as a shock to you, but in a peace agreement the Arab Palestinians are going to have to give up claim to some land. You are apparently agreeing with me that Arab Palestinians have, indeed, been offered sovereignty. They just don't think the cake is sweet enough. Well, how sweet does the cake need to be? Olmert offered 93% of Judea and Samaria and offered land swaps to make up for the loss. So why wasn't THAT cake sweet enough?

Because the Jews aren't going back to Europe where they belong.

I'm sorry you guys don't get this, but they don't want ANY of you on their land. and they know that Demographics are in their favor. You'll run out of people before they do.

 

[JoeB131]

This is where Jews really should've gone, and no one would realy care.

Jewish Autonomous Oblast - Wikipedia

Meh, they'd have pissed off the Manchurian and tried to steal their land, too.

 

[Shusha]

.
I'm sorry you guys don't get this, but they don't want ANY of you on their land. ...

Right?! Exactly. The only cake that is sweet enough is to ethnically cleanse the entire territory of all Jews. There's a word for that, you know.

 

[Shusha]

NOt really the same thing. ...
But at least the First Nations aren't invading someone else's land and treating them like second class citizens like the Zionists are.

Why is it not the same thing? You are saying that since the Jewish people "lost" their language (which is factually and demonstrably false) they no longer have human rights.

And the Jewish people are NOT invading someone else's land. The Jewish people are the First Nations peoples of Israel.

 

[Hossfly]

This is absurd on its face. It also assumes a claim on a land because 3000 years ago, people who used to live there ...

No. It is a claim that for more than 3000 years the indigenous Jewish peoples have maintained a home and a presence on their ancestral territory. It is no different than the First Nations peoples of the Americas claiming indigenous presence on their ancestral territory.

...practiced an earlier version of their religion, although it can be equally argued that Islam, Christianity, Mandeanism, and others have an equally good claim as they are also descended from that theology.

Usurping someone's theology does not negate the human rights of the originators of the theology.

So you have to see Zionism for what it actually is, European colonialism in its most naked form.

Oh, I assure you I see accusations of "Zionism" as a dirty word EXACTLY for what it is -- a thinly disguised form of antisemitism. As a test for that, why don't you make me an argument for the Jewish people having a right to self-determination and self-government just like any other people?

European Jews are not a Semitic people. Palestine is not the ancestral land of European Jews any more than it is the ancestral land of European Christians who also laid claim to it and occupied it at the time of the Crusades.

OTOH, Palestine is not the ancestral home of the non-Jews living there.
They are Arabic from Saudi Arabia or they are from Egypt,Jordan and Syria.

OTOH, Europe is not the ancestral home of the Jews living there.
They are Jews from Israel.

Conclusion: Arabs are the interlopers and occupiers.
Conclusion: Jews are the occupants.

No argument will be accepted or verified.

 

[Shusha]

Because the Jews aren't going back to Europe where they belong.

Jews have no rights to steal Polish land either.

Whenever I read virulent toxic antisemitism as witnessed on this thread, I always wonder if the posters really don't understand how antisemitic they are being or if they understand but feel justified.

Imagine taking another indigenous ethnic group and treating them the same way -- say Catalans. Imagine telling the Catalans that they can not stay in Catalonia while also telling them that they have no right to live anywhere in the world. Its crazy.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I take it some of you folks opposed the existence of Israel. Why? By the way, here is a definition of Zionism that I found. I don't see the problem.

Zionism - Wikipedia

Zionism (Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת‎ Tsiyyonut [t͡sijo̞ˈnut] after Zion) is the national movement of the Jewish people that supports the re-establishment of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel (roughly corresponding to Canaan, the Holy Land, or the region of Palestine).[1][2][3][4] Modern Zionism emerged in the late 19th century in Central and Eastern Europe as a national revival movement, in reaction to anti-Semitic and exclusionary nationalist movements in Europe.[5][6] Soon after this, most leaders of the movement associated the main goal with creating the desired state in Palestine, then an area controlled by the Ottoman Empire.[7][8][9]

Until 1948, the primary goals of Zionism were the re-establishment of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel, ingathering of the exiles, and liberation of Jews from the antisemitic discrimination and persecution that they experienced during their diaspora. Since the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, Zionism continues primarily to advocate on behalf of Israel and to address threats to its continued existence and security.

Indeed, it was a settler colonial project.

 

[P F Tinmore]

And what is your issue with Zionism?

My Issue with Zionism is that it is based on a lie.

The Lie being " A land without a people for a people without a land".

Well, there were people living on that land, and that land was stolen from them.

You mean the so-called Palestinians were living there? It wasn't their land. The land had belonged to the Ottoman Empire who lost it after they waged war against Britain. Britain agreed break up the land into different sovereign nations. Everyone accepted their nations and their borders with one exception, the dumbass Palestinians.

Colonist scum argument, that Palestinians have no right to Israel, because Ottomans, then Israelis controlled their land..

The Ottomans (Turkey) ceded the land to Palestine not Britain.

 

[Hossfly]

And what is your issue with Zionism?

My Issue with Zionism is that it is based on a lie.

The Lie being " A land without a people for a people without a land".

Well, there were people living on that land, and that land was stolen from them.

You mean the so-called Palestinians were living there? It wasn't their land. The land had belonged to the Ottoman Empire who lost it after they waged war against Britain. Britain agreed break up the land into different sovereign nations. Everyone accepted their nations and their borders with one exception, the dumbass Palestinians.

Colonist scum argument, that Palestinians have no right to Israel, because Ottomans, then Israelis controlled their land..

The Ottomans (Turkey) ceded the land to Palestine not Britain.

That was really very generous of the Ottomans and the original Palestinians are grateful. Of course, the Israelis didn't get the whole package as promised.

 

[P F Tinmore]

My Issue with Zionism is that it is based on a lie.

The Lie being " A land without a people for a people without a land".

Well, there were people living on that land, and that land was stolen from them.

You mean the so-called Palestinians were living there? It wasn't their land. The land had belonged to the Ottoman Empire who lost it after they waged war against Britain. Britain agreed break up the land into different sovereign nations. Everyone accepted their nations and their borders with one exception, the dumbass Palestinians.

Colonist scum argument, that Palestinians have no right to Israel, because Ottomans, then Israelis controlled their land..

The Pals don't have any right to Israel. You are arguing with the UN. lol

Greg

They have more right than the so called jews. The Russians living there have no right. Burn the bible , where is their right.

Nonsense. The UN recognised the State of Israel. Case settled.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/foreignpolicy/peace/guide/pages/un general assembly resolution 181.aspx

Greg

Resolution 181 was rejected and the UN Security Council did not implement any of its recommendations.

It means nothing.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You mean the so-called Palestinians were living there? It wasn't their land. The land had belonged to the Ottoman Empire who lost it after they waged war against Britain. Britain agreed break up the land into different sovereign nations. Everyone accepted their nations and their borders with one exception, the dumbass Palestinians.

Um, guy, someone else coming in and giving away your stuff is hardly something anyone would accept.

The thing is, the formation of Israel was British Imperialism by Proxy. and like most colonial states, the native people were having none of it.

You, of course, have verifiable links? Who OWNED the land (for the most part)?

Greg

The land was not called Palestine for naught. The British owned it, and the Jews threw the British out. Thieves.

Well then they stole it fair and square; tuff!!! But yes; all joking aside. The State of Israel was given Nationhood in 1948. Go argue with the Brits.

Greg

Actually, Britain did not pass its mandate to Israel. It passed it to the UNPC.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Nonsense. The UN recognised the State of Israel. Case settled.

the UN has also passed a dozen resolutions condemning the Zionists and their actions in Palestine, including calling for an end of occupation of Gaza and the West Bank.

You can't have it both ways on the UN.

Today's U.N. is a joke. They're harder on Israel than they are on North Korea. Iran on the Human Rights Council? LMAO! You are seriously a stupid mother ******.

Who is North Korea occupying?

 

[JoeB131]

Right?! Exactly. The only cake that is sweet enough is to ethnically cleanse the entire territory of all Jews. There's a word for that, you know.

I'm sure there is... but since they are invaders, they don't get a lot of sympathy from me.

And the Jewish people are NOT invading someone else's land. The Jewish people are the First Nations peoples of Israel.

According to who? A moldy old book that has talking snakes and Giants and Sea Monsters in it?

Imagine taking another indigenous ethnic group and treating them the same way -- say Catalans. Imagine telling the Catalans that they can not stay in Catalonia while also telling them that they have no right to live anywhere in the world. Its crazy.

No, no, no. Crazy is insisting on living on a strip of desert and being at perpetual war with the people you stole it from because a MAGIC PIXIE IN THE SKY told you to.

Whenever I read virulent toxic antisemitism as witnessed on this thread, I always wonder if the posters really don't understand how antisemitic they are being or if they understand but feel justified.

You'd have a point if we weren't actually complaining about a legitimate thing the Zionists are doing. Now, if you said, "Let's make East Prussia the Jewish Homeland", I'd have less problem with that, as that's where they came from originally and Germany kind of owes them.

The Palestinians didn't really do anything to deserve the misery the Zionists are inflicting on them.

 

[P F Tinmore]

We have ZOG in the US. They take over every country they are in.

What is ZOG?

Zionist occupied government.

As Janet Yellen Ascends at the Fed, the Anti-Semites Stay Quiet

and who is the secretary of treasury.

PS: I am not an anti-Semite, just stating a fact. I agree with many jews on civil rights issues, but who controls the money controls the country.

Definition of anti-semitic canard includes: "Jews control the money":

The Anti Defamation League documented various antisemitic canards concerning Jews and banking,[82] including the myth that world banking is dominated by the Rothschild family,[83] that Jews control Wall Street,[83] and that Jews control the United States Federal Reserve.[84] The ADL notes that the canard can be traced back to the prevalence of Jews in the money-lending profession in Europe during the Middle Ages, due to a prohibition against Christians in that profession. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion repeated this canard.
Antisemitic canard - Wikipedia

If the cap fits.....

Not all Jews. Most Jews are just working people.

 

[P F Tinmore]

That's it, k*nt, run from simple questions. I'll reiterate. If the Israeli-Arabs have it so bad, why don't they leave?

Because it is their homeland.

 

[Shusha]

Who is North Korea occupying?

Well, each Korea claims sovereignty over the entire territory, so, according to them, they are each being occupied by the other.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Who is North Korea occupying?

Well, each Korea claims sovereignty over the entire territory, so, according to them, they are each being occupied by the other.

The Korean people want to reunify the country. It is the governments and the US who reject that plan.

 

[P F Tinmore]

K9BUCK, lying Zionist, instead of the finger of God, that cartoon should have the US depicted as a 800lb gorilla pulling on the rope. Or maybe have the devil holding the rope for his children. I see no evidence of God helping those Antichrists. Israel doesn't get any peace. Israel can't win the stalemate with the Palestinians. God allegedly let Hitler throw six million Jews into ovens. God sent the Romans to smash the earlier Jewish state into the ground. And, the Jews can't lay one stone of a new Temple.

Your sick doctrine is losing popularity in the US. Eventually that 800lb gorilla will lose interest in protecting the rabid dog Israel, and the Israel will be wiped off the map.

Israel can't win the stalemate with the Palestinians.

Indeed, Israel's military has been pounding Palestinian civilians for 70 years and has not won yet.

And they call the Palestinians losers.

 

[Shusha]

Now, if you said, "Let's make East Prussia the Jewish Homeland", I'd have less problem with that, as that's where they came from originally ...

Again, I am absolutely appalled by this line of thinking. Do you really, actually believe that the Jewish people have no connection to Israel, Judea and Samaria and did not originate in those places? That the Jewish people have no history there? That the Hebrew language didn't come into being there? Its CRAZY.

Forget about magic sky fairies and just look at the factual evidence.

How do you explain away things like this?

Or this?

I REALLY want to know -- do you actually believe that the Jewish people have absolutely NO connection to that land? Is the depth of your ignorance really that great? Or is it your antisemitism that is that huge that you deny, even to yourself, reality?