Orthodox Jews in New York City Burn Israeli Flag Over the War for Greater Israel Currently Focused on Iran

[Mac-7]

They are an ultra religious sect. They don't think there should be a Jewish state until the Messiah comes

Oh well

 

[EdwinAMartin]

This is false. Not only did he quote from the Talmud, he told his followers to obey Talmudic teaching.

There was no 'Talmud' when he was alive; that codification started around 70 A.D. and wasn't finished until 400 A.D. Christianity is older than rabbinical Judaism by a few decades. You might mean the Mishnah? That was transmitted orally, which means Jesus was indeed a Torah scholar.

 

[EdwinAMartin]

Jesus taught Hillel’s lesson, otherwise known as the Golden Rule.

Yes, he did seem to have been influenced by the Hillel school. They were relatives, both descended from David.

 

[Lisa558]

Yes, he did seem to have been influenced by the Hillel school. They were relatives, both descended from David.

In fact, their lives may have overlapped, although Jesus would have been a baby when Hillel was an old man.

 

[rosends]

There was no 'Talmud' when he was alive;

sure there was. He quoted it. Unless you think he didn't...

that codification started around 70 A.D. and wasn't finished until 400 A.D.

the codification was the assembling of all the elements that had already been extant and part of the Jewish system orally.

Christianity is older than rabbinical Judaism by a few decades.

that makes zero sense

You might mean the Mishnah?

the mishna (and the braitot and the tosefta) are all the backbone of the talmud, but the arguments and discussions in the gemara were the essence of the understanding of the mishna well before Jesus

That was transmitted orally, which means Jesus was indeed a Torah scholar.

not exactly true. They were transmitted orally (though i have heard that there was no issue with privately writing down sections for personal review) but Jesus, through his actions, showed himself to be no scholar.

 

[Woodznutz]

Depending on the context, how do you think Jesus' imagined Peter to be for Jesus to lay such a yeoman task on him. I think He saw Peter as a rock able to withstand what the job was going to cost Peter, as opposed to something you skip across a pond.

Jesus didn't call the Canaanite woman a dog directly. He implied it acutely though. This is what He said when she asked for His help:

Matthew 15:26-28 But Jesus replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.” “Yes, Lord,” she said, “ even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.” “O woman,” Jesus answered, “your faith is great! Let it be done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

Why didn't Peter start Christ's church in the north, at Tirzah?

She called Jesus "Lord" and "master". She knew who he was. Canaanites wouldn't have.
She referred to herself and her daughter as "puppies", not dogs.
He gave her the "children's" bread.
Finally, he told the disciples that she was an Israelite, to whom he was "sent only".

Sh

 

[EdwinAMartin]

sure there was.

No, there wasn't. The Mishnah was around, which was included when the Talmud was finally invented, but it precedes the Talmud by several decades. The 'Oral Torah' is fiction created long after the Pentateuch. There is no 'top secret super special Oral Torah'. It is complete as written. The Talmud has occasional flashes of brilliance, but it is mostly just opinion and inventive ways to waffle and get around the intent of the laws. Much of it is just insanely silly.

 

[EdwinAMartin]

that makes zero sense

You mean you hate that some people know it.

 

[rosends]

No, there wasn't. The Mishnah was around, which was included when the Talmud was finally invented

invented? Nope. Try again. The mishna dates from Sinai but the conversation surrounding the mishna began soon after.

The 'Oral Torah' is fiction created long after the Pentateuch.

that is your belief.

There is no 'top secret super special Oral Torah'.

who said there was (though, in a sense, there sort of is, but that's beyond the scope of this)

It is complete as written.

HAHAHAHA. That's hilarious.

The Talmud has occasional flashes of brilliance, but it is mostly just opinion and inventive ways to waffle and get around the intent of the laws. Much of it is just insanely silly.

that is certainly your opinion. Somehow, we have survived for a long time ignoring your opinion and I assume we will continue to do so.

 

[EdwinAMartin]

invented? Nope. Try again. The mishna dates from Sinai but the conversation surrounding the mishna began soon after.

that is your belief.

who said there was (though, in a sense, there sort of is, but that's beyond the scope of this)

HAHAHAHA. That's hilarious.

that is certainly your opinion. Somehow, we have survived for a long time ignoring your opinion and I assume we will continue to do so.

More dissembling rubbish. Nobody ever heard of any ''Oral Torah' until long afterwards. It's fiction invented after Ezra

 

[rosends]

More dissembling rubbish. Nobody ever heard of any ''Oral Torah' until long afterwards. It's fiction invented after Ezra

feel free to believe that if you must. It doesn't have any impact on Jews.

 

[EdwinAMartin]

Speaking of 'Gnosticism', and the variety of Jewish sects, this one is interesting

Mandaeans - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

​

They also rejected the 'Oral Torah' nonsense. They were heavily discriminated against by rabbinical sects as well for not being 'real Jews'.

 

[EdwinAMartin]

feel free to believe that if you must. It doesn't have any impact on Jews.

I just go by real facts, not fantasy. And, true, most don't care either way, including a majority of Jews themselves.

 

[rosends]

I just go by real facts, not fantasy. And, true, most don't care either way, including a majority of Jews themselves.

Real facts? But you don't seem to know any.

 

[EdwinAMartin]

Real facts? But you don't seem to know any.

Obviously I do, and you have nothing to disprove them.

 

[rosends]

Obviously I do, and you have nothing to disprove them.

so the fact that the gemara includes references and personages who predate the common era, thus showing that the content is older than you claim doesn't matter to you. Got it.

 

[EdwinAMartin]

so the fact that the gemara includes references and personages who predate the common era, thus showing that the content is older than you claim doesn't matter to you. Got it.

I can include references and passages to people who predate Alexander the Great.

What stands out about the most of the NT and all four of the gospels is that they are entirely contemporary to their time and place, with no anachronisms. Pretty tough to fake that.

 

[rosends]

I can include references and passages to people who predate Alexander the Great.

um, so? The gemara records conversations that took place before the common era. This means that the content of the gemara predates the common era. Show me otherwise.

 

[EdwinAMartin]

um, so? The gemara records conversations that took place before the common era. This means that the content of the gemara predates the common era. Show me otherwise.

But you said I don't care. Show me why I can't find references to people from the past and stuff.

 

[rosends]

But you said I don't care. Show me why I can't find references to people from the past and stuff.

How good is your Aramaic? I can't account for your ignorance.