what determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

[hobelim]

Without relying on scripture or any words of Jesus I will tell you that it is law that if you fill your head with irrational nonsense you will become confused and say and do stupid things that injure yourself and the people you love.

If you fail to head the warning to stand guard over the purity of your own mind and what you allow or don't allow into your own head with at least as much discretion as anyone applies to what they eat or don't eat, any consequent suffering is self inflicted.

The worst the eternal flames of hell are is exactly the place you are already in, knowing good and evil without understanding any of it.

God has made the way to life clear. Do it and you will have life. If you fail to do it you have no one to blame for any consequent confusion related suffering but yourself.

But again, you ARE relying on the words of Jesus. For you are calling what He said "law."

No God worthy of worshiping ever created a torture chamber. There is no hell.

No. What I said was law was nothing ever said by Jesus or written in the Bible.

I am telling you that what I said has always been and will always be law.


Yet I also agree that there is no hell below or torture chamber in existence except the ones self created by people who fail to diligently stand guard over the purity of their own minds..

 

[IlarMeilyr]

Without relying on scripture or any words of Jesus I will tell you that it is law that if you fill your head with irrational nonsense you will become confused and say and do stupid things that injure yourself and the people you love.

If you fail to head the warning to stand guard over the purity of your own mind and what you allow or don't allow into your own head with at least as much discretion as anyone applies to what they eat or don't eat, any consequent suffering is self inflicted.

The worst the eternal flames of hell are is exactly the place you are already in, knowing good and evil without understanding any of it.

God has made the way to life clear. Do it and you will have life. If you fail to do it you have no one to blame for any consequent confusion related suffering but yourself.

But again, you ARE relying on the words of Jesus. For you are calling what He said "law."

No God worthy of worshiping ever created a torture chamber. There is no hell.

No. What I said was law was nothing ever said by Jesus or written in the Bible.

I am telling you that what I said has always been and will always be law.


Yet I also agree that there is no hell below or torture chamber in existence except the ones self created by people who fail to diligently stand guard over the purity of their own minds..

What is said in the Bible (and by Jesus) has indeed been called "law" by many people.

It is a good sign that it is not a claim you make.

What does or does not constitute irrational nonsense, however, is a matter of subjective opinion.

If I accept your definition that it is "law" (of some kind) that if one fills one's head with irrational nonsense, then one will be subjected to confusion, then the problem boils down to identifying what is and what is not "irrational" and what is "nonsense."

Disagreeing with your notion of what might be irrational nonsense is not necessarily itself wrong. It might BE rational. It might be that what you consider "irrational nonsense" is not even remotely irrational or nonsense.

 

[hobelim]

But again, you ARE relying on the words of Jesus. For you are calling what He said "law."

No God worthy of worshiping ever created a torture chamber. There is no hell.

No. What I said was law was nothing ever said by Jesus or written in the Bible.

I am telling you that what I said has always been and will always be law.


Yet I also agree that there is no hell below or torture chamber in existence except the ones self created by people who fail to diligently stand guard over the purity of their own minds..

What is said in the Bible (and by Jesus) has indeed been called "law" by many people.

It is a good sign that it is not a claim you make.

What does or does not constitute irrational nonsense, however, is a matter of subjective opinion.

If I accept your definition that it is "law" (of some kind) that if one fills one's head with irrational nonsense, then one will be subjected to confusion, then the problem boils down to identifying what is and what is not "irrational" and what is "nonsense."

Disagreeing with your notion of what might be irrational nonsense is not necessarily itself wrong. It might BE rational. It might be that what you consider "irrational nonsense" is not even remotely irrational or nonsense.

excellent. Its a good sign that you were able to progress to the next logical line of questioning.

So lets see if we can agree on what is irrational nonsense that fucks up peoples minds and what is not.

 

[BreezeWood]

.

the OuterWorld of the Everlasting is only for those who triumph against evil, such as sin.

there is no hell for the sake of those who have and can not defeat evil so they may die.

.

 

[musingsofacac]

How do people go to heaven?

This is one of the great questions of life that scholars and others have contemplated for thousands of years. As a Christian I believe what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, that he was the Son of God and that he died on the cross for the sins of mankind. The Bible is clear that whoever believes on him(it does not matter your race, creed or national origin), all can be saved through Jesus Christ.

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

John 3:16

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

John 14:6


“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”

Acts 4:12

“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;”

I Timothy 2:5

I could quote from many other Bible passages, but from a Biblical perspective it is clear there is one God and one savior between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

Now what about those who do not believe the Bible?

I know many people are Deists in that they believe in some higher power. But they think there is no way we can know him and that all religions are made up by men. If that is true, then what you believe is that this higher power who created this world with such precision and created something and beautiful as man, left him completely ignorant as to his origins or the creators will?

I cannot accept that, I believe that the creator of such a beautiful world would never do such a thing. He would show us the way and I believe he has in the Bible. I believe salvation comes only through trusting Jesus Christ as one's Lord and Savior as the Bible states.

One might also ask - well if the God the Bible is real and so is Jesus Christ, why don't they just come down and tell us so. My answer to that is they already did, it was just a long time ago. Do you think God needs to come down every day and remind us he is there? I also believe that God wants us to have faith, that we are living in an age of not only grace, but of faith. Jesus when confronted by Thomas to see his wounds(after his resurrection) told him this:

“Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”

John 20:29

http://musingsofacac.com/2013/08/27/how-do-people-go-to-heaven/

 

[theword]

How do people go to heaven?

This is one of the great questions of life that scholars and others have contemplated for thousands of years. As a Christian I believe what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, that he was the Son of God and that he died on the cross for the sins of mankind. The Bible is clear that whoever believes on him(it does not matter your race, creed or national origin), all can be saved through Jesus Christ.

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

John 3:16

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

John 14:6


“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”

Acts 4:12

“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;”

I Timothy 2:5

I could quote from many other Bible passages, but from a Biblical perspective it is clear there is one God and one savior between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

Now what about those who do not believe the Bible?

I know many people are Deists in that they believe in some higher power. But they think there is no way we can know him and that all religions are made up by men. If that is true, then what you believe is that this higher power who created this world with such precision and created something and beautiful as man, left him completely ignorant as to his origins or the creators will?

I cannot accept that, I believe that the creator of such a beautiful world would never do such a thing. He would show us the way and I believe he has in the Bible. I believe salvation comes only through trusting Jesus Christ as one's Lord and Savior as the Bible states.

One might also ask - well if the God the Bible is real and so is Jesus Christ, why don't they just come down and tell us so. My answer to that is they already did, it was just a long time ago. Do you think God needs to come down every day and remind us he is there? I also believe that God wants us to have faith, that we are living in an age of not only grace, but of faith. Jesus when confronted by Thomas to see his wounds(after his resurrection) told him this:

“Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”

John 20:29

How do people go to heaven? | The Musings Of A Christian American Conservative

Why would people need to go to a place they were created in and remain there forever.

How will you go to heaven after your invisible energy that makes you a "being" stops being processed through the energy that's called your brain?

 

[Chuckt]

How do people go to heaven?

This is one of the great questions of life that scholars and others have contemplated for thousands of years. As a Christian I believe what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, that he was the Son of God and that he died on the cross for the sins of mankind. The Bible is clear that whoever believes on him(it does not matter your race, creed or national origin), all can be saved through Jesus Christ.

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

John 3:16

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

John 14:6


“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”

Acts 4:12

“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;”

I Timothy 2:5

I could quote from many other Bible passages, but from a Biblical perspective it is clear there is one God and one savior between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

Now what about those who do not believe the Bible?

I know many people are Deists in that they believe in some higher power. But they think there is no way we can know him and that all religions are made up by men. If that is true, then what you believe is that this higher power who created this world with such precision and created something and beautiful as man, left him completely ignorant as to his origins or the creators will?

I cannot accept that, I believe that the creator of such a beautiful world would never do such a thing. He would show us the way and I believe he has in the Bible. I believe salvation comes only through trusting Jesus Christ as one's Lord and Savior as the Bible states.

One might also ask - well if the God the Bible is real and so is Jesus Christ, why don't they just come down and tell us so. My answer to that is they already did, it was just a long time ago. Do you think God needs to come down every day and remind us he is there? I also believe that God wants us to have faith, that we are living in an age of not only grace, but of faith. Jesus when confronted by Thomas to see his wounds(after his resurrection) told him this:

“Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”

John 20:29

How do people go to heaven? | The Musings Of A Christian American Conservative

I suggest you make this a seperate post and that way more people will see it and it will have its own topic instead of being off topic.

 

[Chuckt]

Why would people need to go to a place they were created in and remain there forever.

How will you go to heaven after your invisible energy that makes you a "being" stops being processed through the energy that's called your brain?

Word,

Your comments aren't really appropriate.

Chuck

 

[ABikerSailor]

Quick question for all the Christians here..................

Do Jews go to Heaven?

Remember......................Jesus was Jewish....................

 

[hobelim]

Quick question for all the Christians here..................

Do Jews go to Heaven?

Remember......................Jesus was Jewish....................

When Jesus was about to be crucified he told his disciples that he was going ahead to prepare a place for them so they would know the way.

If the life of Jesus was any indication of how a person gets into heaven it would seem obvious to me that any Jew who ever suffered in any way or was tortured or killed instead of bowing down in any way before a false edible triune mangod would be worthy to receive a place in the world to come.

 

[Chuckt]

Quick question for all the Christians here..................

Do Jews go to Heaven?

Remember......................Jesus was Jewish....................

Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. I believe Abraham went to heaven because he is mentioned in the Bible.

God called the Jews a stiffnecked people. God went to them so it was grace because going to a people that didn't always listen and were sometimes worse than the surrounding nation so offering them the own words of God and the sacrificial system by faith is grace. God favored them and they rebelled so God sent them into captivity twice, has re-gathered them in the nation of Israel and will save a remnant.

 

[LittleNipper]

Your question presupposes your conclusion.

If Jesus is the Divine Son of God Himself, and as such, if Jesus Himself is God, then whatever He called upon people to do would be "law." Failure to comply with that law would presumably have consequences, as you suggest.

But, what if Jesus was NOT Divine? What if, no matter how brilliant and caring and intelligent His words may have been, they were not the words of God or the Son of God?

Then the consequences of failing to heed his commands would not necessarily entail any eternal retribution or punishment.

Put all that aside and tell me, without relying on the words and teachings of Jesus, in what way does it make ANY sense to believe that the Divine Creator of EVERYTHING that is is somehow a Being Who would even ask for (much less need or require) our praise or prayers?

What kind of God would punish a soul with torture for all eternity for not being able to recognize the very things which He, in His wisdom, made obscure to us?

I could never believe in such a patently insane Creator.

I said nothing about any God who requires praise or prayer or who would torture any living thing for eternity. I do not believe in and would not worship or serve any such God either.

Without relying on scripture or any words of Jesus I will tell you that it is law that if you fill your head with irrational nonsense you will become confused and say and do stupid things that injure yourself and the people you love.

If you fail to head the warning to stand guard over the purity of your own mind and what you allow or don't allow into your own head with at least as much discretion as anyone applies to what they eat or don't eat, any consequent suffering is self inflicted.

The worst the eternal flames of hell are is exactly the place you are already in, knowing good and evil without understanding any of it.

God has made the way to life clear. Do it and you will have life. If you fail to do it you have no one to blame for any consequent confusion related suffering but yourself.

But again, you ARE relying on the words of Jesus. For you are calling what He said "law."

No God worthy of worshiping ever created a torture chamber. There is no hell.

Hell is the place that is absent of God's interaction. Even this present world experiences God's interaction to one degree or another --- and the interaction from those God directs. Hell is the place where a person who has chosen to do his own thing, his own way, is permitted to hold that thought for all eternity. The logic also seems to be that an unsaved individual is unable to find heaven, as he has no personal shepherd to guide him. That soul has separated itself from that shepherd and not God from that individual. The torture is self inflicted with the realization that God is real and eternity is real and now that individual has no place with God, and no possibility to do anything without God. So please don't put the blame on God.

 

[HUGGY]

Carroll might go to hell for cutting Robinson.

 

[numan]

So in order to believe in God, you must first believe in God.

Yep, makes perfect sense.

Except that isn't what I said at all. You just have to believe that if there is a God that He can communicate with you.
I didn't always know there was a God. But I reasoned that if He did exist, He could find a way to let me know. That gave me enough incentive to experiment on the Word.

The scriptures say to ask and you will recieve, to seek and you will find. The Lord has given us a way and a method to learn from Him. it requires action on our part. But if you cannot even believe that you can someday know, you never will know.

Joseph Smith was guided by satan to deceive millions of people into religion and enslaved to his religious ideas that keeps them from the knowledge of God that Joseph Smith never had.

And there you go: Mormon cult member Avatar and mystical Gnostic theword. Both have "certain knowledge" through their "faith" and "belief" that they know something about the hypothetical "God", and both with contradictory and diametrically opposed "knowledge".

This is a tongue-tip taste of how worthless "faith" is as a guide to knowledge, and why people with a scientific training are so often contemptuous of religion.
.

 

[Chuckt]

So in order to believe in God, you must first believe in God.

Yep, makes perfect sense.

Except that isn't what I said at all. You just have to believe that if there is a God that He can communicate with you.
I didn't always know there was a God. But I reasoned that if He did exist, He could find a way to let me know. That gave me enough incentive to experiment on the Word.

The scriptures say to ask and you will recieve, to seek and you will find. The Lord has given us a way and a method to learn from Him. it requires action on our part. But if you cannot even believe that you can someday know, you never will know.

Joseph Smith was guided by satan to deceive millions of people into religion and enslaved to his religious ideas that keeps them from the knowledge of God that Joseph Smith never had.

And there you go: Mormon cult member Avatar and mystical Gnostic theword. Both have "certain knowledge" through their "faith" and "belief" that they know something about the hypothetical "God", and both with contradictory and diametrically opposed "knowledge".

This is a tongue-tip taste of how worthless "faith" is as a guide to knowledge, and why people with a scientific training are so often contemptuous of religion.
.

Neuman,

There are people in the occult that know spirits exist or else there wouldn't be occult stores, occult bookstores and the like.

People have experienced spirits and some of the stories are in the book "The Coming Darkness" by Dr. John Ankerberg and Dr. John Weldon.

I remember going to a church and the pastor was telling me that a man in the occult walked in off the street and he handed him his resume in the occult and told the pastor that the spirits he was dealing with were trying to harm him.

There are a lot of fallen angels that followed Satan which is the cause of other religions and many occultic practices.

Anyway, we wouldn't mind you being around longer to talk to us. I looked around the message board and saw messages by people with 1,000 thanks or more who were banned and I just thought that if you were a bit more cordial that you might be here longer.

Chuck

 

[numan]

'
Unlike most Americans, I prefer TRUTH to schmoozing and flattering the incoherent "minds" of superstitious imbeciles.

.

 

[jasonnfree]

Quick question for all the Christians here..................

Do Jews go to Heaven?

Remember......................Jesus was Jewish....................

Don't forget all the "christians" that voted for the mormon romney. Will they go to heaven?
No matter what, the right wing can't deny Obama attending a christian church for decades unlike romney. Christians do not consider mormons christians. Obama at his worse is just a backsliding christian. All fairy tales of course but the christians bet their future on this stuff.

 

[jasonnfree]

Quick question for all the Christians here..................

Do Jews go to Heaven?

Remember......................Jesus was Jewish....................

Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. I believe Abraham went to heaven because he is mentioned in the Bible.

God called the Jews a stiffnecked people. God went to them so it was grace because going to a people that didn't always listen and were sometimes worse than the surrounding nation so offering them the own words of God and the sacrificial system by faith is grace. God favored them and they rebelled so God sent them into captivity twice, has re-gathered them in the nation of Israel and will save a remnant.

Satan was mentioned in the bible just like Abraham was, so do you believe satan will go to heaven also?. Do you want to bump into him on Canaan's shore?

 

[Chuckt]

Quick question for all the Christians here..................

Do Jews go to Heaven?

Remember......................Jesus was Jewish....................

Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. I believe Abraham went to heaven because he is mentioned in the Bible.

God called the Jews a stiffnecked people. God went to them so it was grace because going to a people that didn't always listen and were sometimes worse than the surrounding nation so offering them the own words of God and the sacrificial system by faith is grace. God favored them and they rebelled so God sent them into captivity twice, has re-gathered them in the nation of Israel and will save a remnant.

Satan was mentioned in the bible just like Abraham was, so do you believe satan will go to heaven also?. Do you want to bump into him on Canaan's shore?

The difference is Jesus died for humans and not angels.
The difference is that Abraham is spoken of differently in the Bible than Satan.
The difference is that Angels had direct revelation from God and sinned but man did not have full revelation of everything.
The difference is that hell was created for Satan and his angels but men can go there.

If you knew the difference then why are you giving me a hard time?

 

[Chuckt]

'
Unlike most Americans, I prefer TRUTH to schmoozing and flattering the incoherent "minds" of superstitious imbeciles.

.

Numan,

I was witnessing on an Occult board and I was reading a spell about Strawberries. I could taste them and smell them. I can't normally do that but the Occult gives people an experience and you just have an argument.

Chuck