Zone1 Four Beliefs of Christian Doctrine - What If Any are Taken Away?

[jwoodie]

Christian doctrine seems to include the following beliefs:
1. Jesus was God in human form (immaculate conception);
2. Jesus performed miracles;
3. Jesus was God's blood sacrifice for our sins; and
4. Jesus physically arose from the dead.

My question is whether someone must accept all of these beliefs in order to be a Christian. What if Jesus was not immaculately conceived? What if He did not perform miracles? What if God did not demand His blood sacrifice? What if He did not physically arise from the dead?

I have always considered myself to be a Christian, but I have serious doubts as to the literal application of these beliefs. For example, how could Jesus be a man if he didn't possess X Chromosomes? From the Creator of the Universe, miracles seem like cheap card tricks. Did the New Testament God of Love really demand a human sacrifice? How would a human body physically ascend to Heaven?

Are all of these beliefs necessary to accept the authority of Christ's teachings?

 

[Rambunctious]

Christian doctrine seems to include the following beliefs:
1. Jesus was God in human form (immaculate conception);
2. Jesus performed miracles;
3. Jesus was God's blood sacrifice for our sins; and
4. Jesus physically arose from the dead.

My question is whether someone must accept all of these beliefs in order to be a Christian. What if Jesus was not immaculately conceived? What if He did not perform miracles? What if God did not demand His blood sacrifice? What if He did not physically arise from the dead?

I have always considered myself to be a Christian, but I have serious doubts as to the literal application of these beliefs. For example, how could Jesus be a man if he didn't possess X Chromosomes? From the Creator of the Universe, miracles seem like cheap card tricks. Did the New Testament God of Love really demand a human sacrifice? How would a human body physically ascend to Heaven?

Are all of these beliefs necessary to accept the authority of Christ's teachings?

I also struggle with this question... and the fact that he looked different after he arose from the dead... one of his disciples questioned whether it truly was Jesus until he saw and felt the wounds on his wrists and feet....
I just have to focus on his message of love faith and forgiveness... as to anything else I must wait until I die to learn...

 

[Manonthestreet]

Christian doctrine seems to include the following beliefs:
1. Jesus was God in human form (immaculate conception);
2. Jesus performed miracles;
3. Jesus was God's blood sacrifice for our sins; and
4. Jesus physically arose from the dead.

My question is whether someone must accept all of these beliefs in order to be a Christian. What if Jesus was not immaculately conceived? What if He did not perform miracles? What if God did not demand His blood sacrifice? What if He did not physically arise from the dead?

I have always considered myself to be a Christian, but I have serious doubts as to the literal application of these beliefs. For example, how could Jesus be a man if he didn't possess X Chromosomes? From the Creator of the Universe, miracles seem like cheap card tricks. Did the New Testament God of Love really demand a human sacrifice? How would a human body physically ascend to Heaven?

Are all of these beliefs necessary to accept the authority of Christ's teachings?

2 people in the BIble ascended...Elijah caught a ride and Enoch simply wasnt. If God can fling the universe into being the stufff of your post seems small potatoes

 

[onefour1]

Christian doctrine seems to include the following beliefs:
1. Jesus was God in human form (immaculate conception);

If Jesus was not born of God the Eternal Father in the Flesh, then he would not be the Only Begotten Son of God on earth. If he were born of a fallen human Father, I seriously doubt that he could have lived his entire life without sin. Jesus as the son of an immortal perfect being and the son of a fallen imperfect mother, gave him the ability to live a sinless life but also allowed him to be able to lay down his life and suffer death. He received necessary attributes from both parents to be able to perform his mission in this life.

2. Jesus performed miracles;

The miracles Jesus performed were attested to by his disciples and are recorded in the New Testament. I don't believe these accounts were falsified but there is no way to prove it. We simply must either take them on faith or fall into disbelief. The entire story of the Christ must be taken on faith unless you were there and actually witnessed these miracles. We must become as little children and walk by faith. A little child does not have proof that they will be able to walk, but they see others and believe that they too can walk and they try and fall and try and fall until they actually begin to walk. Our faith is the same. We must believe and have faith and eventually the day will come when we will know the truth.

3. Jesus was God's blood sacrifice for our sins; and

We are imperfect beings. In a universe of perfect law and order, we have all fallen short of that law and are guilty of not abiding by it. None of us can be justified by the law. How can we overcome this? God, in his infinite wisdom sent a member of his godhead who was able to live a perfect life in this fallen world but would suffer for the sins of all mankind. Was it a just punishment upon the Christ? NO! It was an infinite injustice and needed to be recompensed. The recompense that Jesus received was to forgive the sins of those who would repent of their sins and turn unto Christ and live his teachings. Jesus won the right to forgive sins. It is the just for the unjust. In this way God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ could allow the sinner back into God's heavenly kingdom. Why did he do it? Why didn't he simply let us suffer the justice of the law and condemn us all? Because he loves us dearly! We are the Father's spirit children and the brothers and sisters of Jesus Christ. It was just to grant the Christ a recompense for his sufferings and death because he was not a fallen man and never deserved any of the pain, suffering and death he suffered. Forgiveness to the repentant through Christ alone is not only just but complete love and mercy.

4. Jesus physically arose from the dead.

Jesus atoned for original sin. He also hung on the cross and suffered death unjustly. Adam and Eve fell into mortality because they disobeyed a commandment of God. Because of Jesus' death his recompense was that Adam and Eve would be resurrected to immortality. As for the rest of us, we were all born unjustly into this fallen world. We did nothing against God to come into this fallen world. We volunteered to come into this world as the spirit children of God to learn good from evil but death and mortality were not a just reward. Thus God the Father and Jesus Christ will resurrect all mankind whether they are righteous or wicked to a state of immortality. God is not only a just God but He is a loving God and grants us immortality as an eternal gift. If none of this is true, we will die and cease to ever exist again. I choose to have faith and hope that it is true and that I will have the blessings of God rather than to rot in the earth for all eternity. Like a little child, I don't have a perfect knowledge of these things but hope and pray that it is true and there are evidences that give me this faith and hope and this gives me more happiness and joy in this life than to look forward to complete annihilation. It is definitely a message of hope and joy to believe in God.

 

[BULLDOG]

Christian doctrine seems to include the following beliefs:
1. Jesus was God in human form (immaculate conception);
2. Jesus performed miracles;
3. Jesus was God's blood sacrifice for our sins; and
4. Jesus physically arose from the dead.

My question is whether someone must accept all of these beliefs in order to be a Christian. What if Jesus was not immaculately conceived? What if He did not perform miracles? What if God did not demand His blood sacrifice? What if He did not physically arise from the dead?

I have always considered myself to be a Christian, but I have serious doubts as to the literal application of these beliefs. For example, how could Jesus be a man if he didn't possess X Chromosomes? From the Creator of the Universe, miracles seem like cheap card tricks. Did the New Testament God of Love really demand a human sacrifice? How would a human body physically ascend to Heaven?

Are all of these beliefs necessary to accept the authority of Christ's teachings?

Christianity doesn't depend on logical explanations for anything. If you believe, you believe regardless of any logical reason for your belief.

 

[rampart]

Christianity doesn't depend on logical explanations for anything. If you believe, you believe regardless of any logical reason for your belief.

i think it is possible to accept the wisdom of the sermon on the mount and the golden rule, and to live accordingly.

Christian doctrine seems to include the following beliefs:
1. Jesus was God in human form (immaculate conception);
2. Jesus performed miracles;
3. Jesus was God's blood sacrifice for our sins; and
4. Jesus physically arose from the dead.

that is pretty much covered in the nicene creed, which is believed by just about every trinitarian christian. some don't consider the uniarians "christian " on that account.

many of these beliefs, the virgin birth, the trinity, and such are really meant to be "mysteries," perhaps aspects of the divine upon which to meditate in prayer.

the tragedy of western civilization is that differences in opinion of these unknowable mysteries have caused so much blood to flow.

 

[Meriweather]

My question is whether someone must accept all of these beliefs in order to be a Christian. What if Jesus was not immaculately conceived? What if He did not perform miracles? What if God did not demand His blood sacrifice? What if He did not physically arise from the dead?

I have always considered myself to be a Christian, but I have serious doubts as to the literal application of these beliefs. For example, how could Jesus be a man if he didn't possess X Chromosomes? From the Creator of the Universe, miracles seem like cheap card tricks. Did the New Testament God of Love really demand a human sacrifice? How would a human body physically ascend to Heaven?

Are all of these beliefs necessary to accept the authority of Christ's teachings?

Try considering all of the above as peripheral. Focus on Jesus' actual words. He came with a simple message: Repentance (turning away) for the forgiveness of sins. Note he did not use the future tense, that sins would be forgiven after he laid down his life, or that punishment had to occur for the forgiveness of our sins. He never said he was a sacrifice, he said he was the living bread come down from heaven. He said he would lay down his life...and that he would take it up again. It was that vital people know their sins are forgiven, and it is the turning away from sin (repentance), not sacrifice nor punishment that results in the forgiveness of sins. A simple message, and one he would not let up from nor turn from, and his insistence and his persistence in delivering this message, this covenant between God and man--not even if he had to lay down his life for us. And he did. He sacrificed his life, becoming the final sacrifice because now we know, repentance/turning away from for the forgiveness of sin, not a burnt offering. As it says in the Old Testament, God desires mercy, not sacrifice, that we love him and love each other.

Jesus taught us the Kingdom of God is within the reach of everyone, and it is in our midst now. Keep the Commandments, align one's life with the Beatitudes, learn from the Parables. By doing this, we enter God's Kingdom here on earth, and as it is an eternal Kingdom this way of life continues on after we pass on. God is God of the living, not the dead, and we are members of the Body of Christ, of Jesus, living bread that came down from heaven.

As far as miracles: I wasn't there to see lepers healed, Jairus' daughter, Lazarus, the widow's son, brought back from the dead. I wasn't on the boat when the sea was calmed or when Jesus walked on water. Obviously, those weren't for me. I have my own miracles, so I do not question the miracles of others. I encourage you to live The Word as it brings both grace and miracles into one's own life.

 

[Meriweather]

Christianity doesn't depend on logical explanations for anything. If you believe, you believe regardless of any logical reason for your belief.

Christianity is faith...but it is also faith based on logic.

 

[BULLDOG]

i think it is possible to accept the wisdom of the sermon on the mount and the golden rule, and to live accordingly.


that is pretty much covered in the nicene creed, which is believed by just about every trinitarian christian. some don't consider the uniarians "christian " on that account.

many of these beliefs, the virgin birth, the trinity, and such are really meant to be "mysteries," perhaps aspects of the divine upon which to meditate in prayer.

the tragedy of western civilization is that differences in opinion of these unknowable mysteries have caused so much blood to flow.

Yes, a tragedy, but not unexpected. Any religion that demands strict adherence to a set of beliefs, but then makes such contradictory claims demands bloody conflict.

 

[BULLDOG]

Christianity is faith...but it is also faith based on logic.

Hard to believe that when you say you have to join your cult before you can find any reason to believe your cult.

 

[Meriweather]

Hard to believe that when you say you have to join your cult before you can find any reason to believe your cult.

Not something I ever said, because that never crossed my mind.

 

[jwoodie]

Try considering all of the above as peripheral. Focus on Jesus' actual words.

I have no doubts about Jesus's actual words. My question is whether belief in these peripheral stories is necessary.

 

[BULLDOG]

Not something I ever said, because that never crossed my mind.

odd that one of the major beliefs of your religion never crossed your mind.

 

[Meriweather]

I have no doubts about Jesus's actual words. My question is whether belief in these peripheral stories is necessary.

Necessary for what? Is it something such as, I need to believe in the virgin birth before I believe murder is wrong; I need to believe in the virgin birth before I show up at church? Or, is it, I need to believe in the virgin birth before I believe Jesus is One with God? What, if anything, falls apart if you do not believe in the virgin birth or any other story viewed as peripheral? For me, sometimes wondering about miracles does not shake my faith in the least about Commandments, Beatitudes, Salvation and Redemption, which are the forefront of practicing my faith.

 

[Meriweather]

odd that one of the major beliefs of your religion never crossed your mind.

Not at all. Seek God first, and the rest falls into place.

 

[kjw47]

Christian doctrine seems to include the following beliefs:
1. Jesus was God in human form (immaculate conception);
2. Jesus performed miracles;
3. Jesus was God's blood sacrifice for our sins; and
4. Jesus physically arose from the dead.

My question is whether someone must accept all of these beliefs in order to be a Christian. What if Jesus was not immaculately conceived? What if He did not perform miracles? What if God did not demand His blood sacrifice? What if He did not physically arise from the dead?

I have always considered myself to be a Christian, but I have serious doubts as to the literal application of these beliefs. For example, how could Jesus be a man if he didn't possess X Chromosomes? From the Creator of the Universe, miracles seem like cheap card tricks. Did the New Testament God of Love really demand a human sacrifice? How would a human body physically ascend to Heaven?

Are all of these beliefs necessary to accept the authority of Christ's teachings?

1)error
2) God did all the powerful works through Jesus( Acts 2:22)
3)Yes Jesus sacrifice opened the door to all, yet he teaches, FEW find that road to Life.
4) Jesus was raised in the spirit, but being Gods son with all authority given to him, could be mortal anytime he chose.

 

[jwoodie]

Necessary for what? Is it something such as, I need to believe in the virgin birth before I believe murder is wrong; I need to believe in the virgin birth before I show up at church? Or, is it, I need to believe in the virgin birth before I believe Jesus is One with God? What, if anything, falls apart if you do not believe in the virgin birth or any other story viewed as peripheral? For me, sometimes wondering about miracles does not shake my faith in the least about Commandments, Beatitudes, Salvation and Redemption, which are the forefront of practicing my faith.

So what do you actually believe about Jesus?

 

[norwegen]

Christian doctrine seems to include the following beliefs:
1. Jesus was God in human form (immaculate conception);
2. Jesus performed miracles;
3. Jesus was God's blood sacrifice for our sins; and
4. Jesus physically arose from the dead.

My question is whether someone must accept all of these beliefs in order to be a Christian. What if Jesus was not immaculately conceived? What if He did not perform miracles? What if God did not demand His blood sacrifice? What if He did not physically arise from the dead?

I have always considered myself to be a Christian, but I have serious doubts as to the literal application of these beliefs. For example, how could Jesus be a man if he didn't possess X Chromosomes? From the Creator of the Universe, miracles seem like cheap card tricks. Did the New Testament God of Love really demand a human sacrifice? How would a human body physically ascend to Heaven?

Are all of these beliefs necessary to accept the authority of Christ's teachings?

You didn't include the central doctrine: that Jesus delivered the kingdom of God.

 

[Meriweather]

So what do you actually believe about Jesus?

I believe Jesus to be One with God and the second person of the Trinity. I believe God is love, that loving isn't simply something he does. Jesus taught his disciples to love as he loved them; he gave his peace to them to pass on to all. This love and this peace springs from living the Ways of God, the Way Christ taught. He gave up his life that we might know repentance results in forgiveness of our sins. The world is redeemed and salvation is open to all.

 

[BULLDOG]

Not at all. Seek God first, and the rest falls into place.

Ok. I would love to believe there is a benevolent God who cares for me. Walk me through it. You say to seek God first. What exactly does that mean? I grew up in my parents Baptist religion, and even served as a deacon for a few years until actual bible study showed me that most of what I was taught and believed couldn't be accurate. I would love to start over and find that comfort again. Here's your chance to show me what I haven't already seen. Seek God? What specifically does that mean. What, specifically is my first step to find the comfort you say you have.