Welfare Cowboy

[joejonbob]

Maybe seditionists should think about that before they decided to back a wealthy rancher that is free loading. Pick your battles wisely.

You can tip toe around reality all you want to. You are bringing up martial law in a thread that boils down to "unregistered" cattle grazing....

Tell me this country isn't tearing at the seams.

I am pretty sure that martial law (I.E government warfare on its people) would make picking a battle pretty easy, for a significant portion of this country. Don't you think?

 

[Asclepias]

Sedition:

"opposing or resisting any law of the United States"

Civil disobedience:

Civil disobedience is the active, professed refusal to obey certain laws, demands, and commands of a government.

Its funny when left-wingers protest it is Civil disobedience when right-wingers protest its sedition. Left-wingers who blew up the Pentagon and Capitol and half a city block are remembered as 'revolutionaries' while Bundy is an asshole seditionist.

Occupy cost taxpayers tens of millions, this man owes 1.1 million. Occupy is getting settlements from local and state governments for books and other items left on federal and public property after they were told to vacate. Hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Why should taxpayers pay for their items? What is the difference between Bundy's cows or their trash left behind after being told to leave? Nothing if you care about public lands being used without permission and trashed.

Civil disobedience is non violent refusal to comply with certain laws/rules.

Sedition typically is violent and is conduct or language intended to incite rebellion against a lawful government.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Bundy's whole beef with the BLM is that he doesn't recognize the federal government, and so refuses to pay the REQUIRED fees for him to graze on taxpayer owned land.

Hey...................Bundy's not paying for things that are provided for at the expense of the U.S. taxpayer!

I guess it's okay if you're a right wing rancher, but not okay if you've just lost your job and need SNAP.

 

[Flopper]

The decision to close off 2 counties worth of grazing land in Nevada affected more than just the Bundies. 15 other ranchers were driven off the BLM holdings.. Alledgely to protect a desert tortoise that OTHER FEDS are now euthanizing by the hundreds because of priorities and funding. (figure that one out).

The other 15 ranchers who PAID their absentee landlord all that time, only to have their livelihoods and communities WRECKED by capricious and arbitrary decisions (NOT LAWS) -- probably regret the fact that they paid anything at all. Those decisions on use of PUBLIC LAND that has little commercial value and is the size of some European countries --- OUGHT to be put up for public hearing and LEGALLY seized when the lives and businesses of whole communities are at stake..

INSTEAD --- they cattle rustle the one lone dissenter who outdates their claim to sovereignty on that land. It's not about his back fees anymore --- It's about the COMPLETE CLOSURE of that land. He's still THERE --- that's the reason for the guys with guns.. No FOOL is gonna back pay a landlord with a gun to his head and his belongings in a locked cage --- telling him he's evicted because of a turtle that they are killing in awesome numbers by orders of the King...

Since the BLM backed down, Bundy seems to have won, at least for now. By allowing a freeloading rancher and armed thugs to seize hundreds of acres of the people's land is setting a dangerous precedent. It is not the BLM's job to pick and choose who has to follow federal laws and who it will reward for violating them.

 

[Asclepias]

Maybe seditionists should think about that before they decided to back a wealthy rancher that is free loading. Pick your battles wisely.

You can tip toe around reality all you want to. You are bringing up martial law in a thread that boils down to "unregistered" cattle grazing....

Tell me this country isn't tearing at the seams.

I am pretty sure that martial law (I.E government warfare on its people) would make picking a battle pretty easy, for a significant portion of this country. Don't you think?

I only brought up martial law to the person who brought up sedition in a thread that boils down to "unregistered" cattle grazing....

You go ahead and pick dumb causes to get shot over if you want. I myself will pick my battles wisely. You can bet it wont be a multi millionaire freeloading on land he doesn't own.

 

[joejonbob]

Bundy's whole beef with the BLM is that he doesn't recognize the federal government, and so refuses to pay the REQUIRED fees for him to graze on taxpayer owned land.

Hey...................Bundy's not paying for things that are provided for at the expense of the U.S. taxpayer!

I guess it's okay if you're a right wing rancher, but not okay if you've just lost your job and need SNAP.

Your point will be relevant when people that receive SNAP have 200 armed mercenaries at their door. Until that happens - apples and oranges.

 

[Asclepias]

The decision to close off 2 counties worth of grazing land in Nevada affected more than just the Bundies. 15 other ranchers were driven off the BLM holdings.. Alledgely to protect a desert tortoise that OTHER FEDS are now euthanizing by the hundreds because of priorities and funding. (figure that one out).

The other 15 ranchers who PAID their absentee landlord all that time, only to have their livelihoods and communities WRECKED by capricious and arbitrary decisions (NOT LAWS) -- probably regret the fact that they paid anything at all. Those decisions on use of PUBLIC LAND that has little commercial value and is the size of some European countries --- OUGHT to be put up for public hearing and LEGALLY seized when the lives and businesses of whole communities are at stake..

INSTEAD --- they cattle rustle the one lone dissenter who outdates their claim to sovereignty on that land. It's not about his back fees anymore --- It's about the COMPLETE CLOSURE of that land. He's still THERE --- that's the reason for the guys with guns.. No FOOL is gonna back pay a landlord with a gun to his head and his belongings in a locked cage --- telling him he's evicted because of a turtle that they are killing in awesome numbers by orders of the King...

Since the BLM backed down, Bundy seems to have won, at least for now. However by allowing a freeloading rancher and armed thugs to seize hundreds of acres of the people's land is setting a dangerous precedent. It is not the BLM's job pick and choose who has to follow federal laws and who it will reward for violating them.

I have a feeling they want to draw more militia out into the open to ID them and gauge their numbers. These nut cases are itching to kill some people. They will continue to tip their hands and the government will neutralize them.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Yeah.............that armed group that showed up at the Bundy ranch were a real bunch of stand up guys.

Openly telling news casters that they were using women and children as human shields, because when the shooting started, they wanted to have pictures of women and kids getting shot.

 

[joejonbob]

I only brought up martial law to the person who brought up sedition in a thread that boils down to "unregistered" cattle grazing....

You go ahead and pick dumb causes to get shot over if you want. I myself will pick my battles wisely. You can bet it wont be a multi millionaire freeloading on land he doesn't own.

Do you think Bundy and his supporters are committing seditious acts?

 

[flacaltenn]

What I am asking is what is the relevance of what they (the feds) are using the land for? The ranchers never owned it. No one told them to make improvements and thats not very wise to do if you don't own the land. I bet they feel very stupid. You squat on someones land and they have the right to kick you off. Thats law. We dont reward people for being stupid. The guy had 20 years of redress in the court system and lost. Twice!! If the feds wanted to give the land over to roller blading it does not matter. They are in charge of the land. BTW what is a " Lordly inherited housing complex"?

Relevence eh? Most of those 16 ranchers have been on that land before "The Management Team" came in. What did the management team DO with 80% of the state of Nevada SINCE THEN?? They turned it into a Nuclear Test Site and multiple bombing ranges. They allowed big companies to come in and plunk down MASSIVE solar farms.. Did they care about tortoises when they were exploding NUCLEAR BOMBS above ground or putting in high traffic roads to the solar farms?

That kind of "management" is an excuse for usurping 80% of the state and preventing the citizens from establishing STABLE LEGAL businesses on that land. I have several great College buds in the Forestry service.. Their disdain for BLM practices knows no bounds. The BLM was given management responsibility for all the property that the Forest Service didn't want. They are an absentee landlord with no regard for the sovereignty of the state of Nevada.

They could wall off 80% of Nevada including the radioactive parts and you wouldn't care -- because they OWN IT? BS.. The people of Nevada own it.. It's on their map. If a state wanted a military base to LEAVE --- do you think the Feds would challenge that decision with an ARMED confrontation and property confiscation? I think it would be a more reasoned and civil discussion...

Yes relevance. At what point did any of the ranchers own the property? If you are trying to tie the other ranchers case in with Bundys then you are confusing the issue. If I hire a new property management company to oversee my properties my tenants don't have my permission to not pay the rent because they don't like them. Bundy is wrong. He had his more reasoned and civil discussion. He even had his day in court 2 times. At what point do I stop having to beg you to get off my property and send the sheriffs to forcefully remove you?

He HAS been removed.. Officially anyways.. Along with the ENTIRE COMMUNITIES in that area.. Just give me your take on the WISDOM on that move.. To shut down 16 100yr old cattle ranches and the community associated with them? Was there a cause? What was it?

The other ranchers ARE INTIMATELY tied to this case. They were just stupid enough to pay the entity that now wants to shut down their 100 yrs of operation.. You are understanding that BLM wants that land VACANT AND UNUSED.. By ANYONE.. As far as we know. Because there are rumors that this is a first step to Harry Reid paying off some political debts.

 

[flacaltenn]

The decision to close off 2 counties worth of grazing land in Nevada affected more than just the Bundies. 15 other ranchers were driven off the BLM holdings.. Alledgely to protect a desert tortoise that OTHER FEDS are now euthanizing by the hundreds because of priorities and funding. (figure that one out).

The other 15 ranchers who PAID their absentee landlord all that time, only to have their livelihoods and communities WRECKED by capricious and arbitrary decisions (NOT LAWS) -- probably regret the fact that they paid anything at all. Those decisions on use of PUBLIC LAND that has little commercial value and is the size of some European countries --- OUGHT to be put up for public hearing and LEGALLY seized when the lives and businesses of whole communities are at stake..

INSTEAD --- they cattle rustle the one lone dissenter who outdates their claim to sovereignty on that land. It's not about his back fees anymore --- It's about the COMPLETE CLOSURE of that land. He's still THERE --- that's the reason for the guys with guns.. No FOOL is gonna back pay a landlord with a gun to his head and his belongings in a locked cage --- telling him he's evicted because of a turtle that they are killing in awesome numbers by orders of the King...

The problem with your argument is that the ranchers accepted the terms of the agreement. Once the ranchers paid the lease fees, they all were obligated to adhere to the terms of the lessor. The lessor sets the rules...at any time the lessees do not agree to the terms, they are free to vacate the lease.

All the ranchers entered into the lease agreement of their own free will. At no time were the ranchers obligated to continue the lease...as was the BLM.

Don't think you understand that the "terms of the lease" now are that NO CATTLE operations at all will be done on that HUGE parcel of land. They have all been ejected. And they are DUPES for paying fees and signing agreements with a slumlord that now wants that land VACANT and UNUSED.. Ask those 16 ranchers and their communities what paying those fees for years legally does for them now..

 

[Flopper]

The decision to close off 2 counties worth of grazing land in Nevada affected more than just the Bundies. 15 other ranchers were driven off the BLM holdings.. Alledgely to protect a desert tortoise that OTHER FEDS are now euthanizing by the hundreds because of priorities and funding. (figure that one out).

The other 15 ranchers who PAID their absentee landlord all that time, only to have their livelihoods and communities WRECKED by capricious and arbitrary decisions (NOT LAWS) -- probably regret the fact that they paid anything at all. Those decisions on use of PUBLIC LAND that has little commercial value and is the size of some European countries --- OUGHT to be put up for public hearing and LEGALLY seized when the lives and businesses of whole communities are at stake..

INSTEAD --- they cattle rustle the one lone dissenter who outdates their claim to sovereignty on that land. It's not about his back fees anymore --- It's about the COMPLETE CLOSURE of that land. He's still THERE --- that's the reason for the guys with guns.. No FOOL is gonna back pay a landlord with a gun to his head and his belongings in a locked cage --- telling him he's evicted because of a turtle that they are killing in awesome numbers by orders of the King...

The problem with your argument is that the ranchers accepted the terms of the agreement. Once the ranchers paid the lease fees, they all were obligated to adhere to the terms of the lessor. The lessor sets the rules...at any time the lessees do not agree to the terms, they are free to vacate the lease.

All the ranchers entered into the lease agreement of their own free will. At no time were the ranchers obligated to continue the lease...as was the BLM.

The BLM has been buying back permits, leases from ranchers and paying some pretty good fees. Since Bundy lost his permit because he refused to pay the grazing fees and insuring penalties, the BLM has limited room to negotiate with him. They really had no alternative but to enforce the law. Unfortunately they decided not to.

 

[Mustang]

We need a little more sedition in this country. Maybe it will eventually get rid of the obama empire.

With all the conservative talk of revolution, secession, and civil war etc, there's no doubt from which side of the political divide that sedition will come from.

 

[Asclepias]

I only brought up martial law to the person who brought up sedition in a thread that boils down to "unregistered" cattle grazing....

You go ahead and pick dumb causes to get shot over if you want. I myself will pick my battles wisely. You can bet it wont be a multi millionaire freeloading on land he doesn't own.

Do you think Bundy and his supporters are committing seditious acts?

If what the media is reporting is true then yes. The media likes hype so I dont know for sure.

 

[CaféAuLait]

Sedition:

"opposing or resisting any law of the United States"

Civil disobedience:

Civil disobedience is the active, professed refusal to obey certain laws, demands, and commands of a government.

Its funny when left-wingers protest it is Civil disobedience when right-wingers protest its sedition. Left-wingers who blew up the Pentagon and Capitol and half a city block are remembered as 'revolutionaries' while Bundy is an asshole seditionist.

Occupy cost taxpayers tens of millions, this man owes 1.1 million. Occupy is getting settlements from local and state governments for books and other items left on federal and public property after they were told to vacate. Hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Why should taxpayers pay for their items? What is the difference between Bundy's cows or their trash left behind after being told to leave? Nothing if you care about public lands being used without permission and trashed.

Civil disobedience is non violent refusal to comply with certain laws/rules.

Sedition typically is violent and is conduct or language intended to incite rebellion against a lawful government.

Kinda like the guy who blew up the Pentagon, Capitol and half a NY city block, killing three? Yet, he is highly regarded and in fact applauded on occasion by the left and in fact was a Key Note speaker at the Occupy protests.

Seriously, I see a lot of disconnect when it comes to those who are looked to as revolutionaries or radicals by the left, like Bill Ayers. Even murderers like Kathy Boudin are respected professors teaching our children and being awarded prestigious titles etc.

I think its BS to be quite honest, if one is going to rant against Bundy then they need to rant against Occupy as well. And, if one is going to rant against Occupy they can't state they are in support of Bundy but opposed to Occupy. That too would be hypocritical as well.

 

[Howey]

Progs are upset that a few hundred people came out to push back against a tyrannical government.

LOL

"When all government, domestic and foreign, in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided of one government on another and will become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated." --Thomas Jefferson to Charles Hammond, 1821. ME 15:332

And that's all. There will never be more than a few militant fringe groups of a "few hundred people", many of whom to fat to run from the law, who'll be mowed down with a blaze of bullets when they decide to rise.

Then our country can return to normal.

Face it. Bundy was given a break because he's an insane teabagger and the feds didn't see the need or cost to take it further. The issue will be settled in the courts and Bundy will end up in prison if he doesn't get his shit together.

 

[Katzndogz]

Go ahead. Just arrest every conservative who disagrees with a liberal agenda. Knock yourself out.

Tiny...There IS a difference between "disagreement" and breaking the law..and then inflaming armed militias to come and scare off those trying to enforce the law...
That could lead to anarchy...where only the strongest and scariest get to control things. Is that what u want?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

That's what was done in 1776. That's what was done in Tunisia. We have a government that has become oppressive and tyrannical. The make criminals out of law abiding people then say the person is a law breaker.

 

[B. Kidd]

The Feds disappointed statists as they didn't get the bloodbath statists were hoping for. They will make up for it tho' next time liberty groups rise to an occasion.

 

[Asclepias]

Relevence eh? Most of those 16 ranchers have been on that land before "The Management Team" came in. What did the management team DO with 80% of the state of Nevada SINCE THEN?? They turned it into a Nuclear Test Site and multiple bombing ranges. They allowed big companies to come in and plunk down MASSIVE solar farms.. Did they care about tortoises when they were exploding NUCLEAR BOMBS above ground or putting in high traffic roads to the solar farms?

That kind of "management" is an excuse for usurping 80% of the state and preventing the citizens from establishing STABLE LEGAL businesses on that land. I have several great College buds in the Forestry service.. Their disdain for BLM practices knows no bounds. The BLM was given management responsibility for all the property that the Forest Service didn't want. They are an absentee landlord with no regard for the sovereignty of the state of Nevada.

They could wall off 80% of Nevada including the radioactive parts and you wouldn't care -- because they OWN IT? BS.. The people of Nevada own it.. It's on their map. If a state wanted a military base to LEAVE --- do you think the Feds would challenge that decision with an ARMED confrontation and property confiscation? I think it would be a more reasoned and civil discussion...

Yes relevance. At what point did any of the ranchers own the property? If you are trying to tie the other ranchers case in with Bundys then you are confusing the issue. If I hire a new property management company to oversee my properties my tenants don't have my permission to not pay the rent because they don't like them. Bundy is wrong. He had his more reasoned and civil discussion. He even had his day in court 2 times. At what point do I stop having to beg you to get off my property and send the sheriffs to forcefully remove you?

He HAS been removed.. Officially anyways.. Along with the ENTIRE COMMUNITIES in that area.. Just give me your take on the WISDOM on that move.. To shut down 16 100yr old cattle ranches and the community associated with them? Was there a cause? What was it?

The other ranchers ARE INTIMATELY tied to this case. They were just stupid enough to pay the entity that now wants to shut down their 100 yrs of operation.. You are understanding that BLM wants that land VACANT AND UNUSED.. By ANYONE.. As far as we know. Because there are rumors that this is a first step to Harry Reid paying off some political debts.

I dont know the whole story on the reason why. To me thats not an issue. The ranchers are not entitled to graze on that land if they no longer have the grazing rights. Have you ever considered Bundy actually caused all of this by not paying his fees? All it takes is one bad apple to screw it up for everyone else.

Rumors about politics are behind most things like this. It may or may not be true but the point is that they simply do not have a legal right to continue grazing the land. If this land was owned by the ranchers then I would be concerned. As it is they don't have a leg to stand on. The ones that paid used the land so that was fair exchange. The free loader got off from paying but not for long.

 

[ABikerSailor]

The Feds disappointed statists as they didn't get the bloodbath statists were hoping for. They will make up for it tho' next time liberty groups rise to an occasion.

It sounds like the militia group was the ones looking for a bloodbath. They made sure to put the women and children in front (unarmed) to be used as human shields.

Matter of fact, one of them was telling a news anchor that is what they planned, because they wanted people to see pictures of women and kids getting shot.