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Unintended Consequences of Banning Abortion

Ray From Cleveland

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You should actually read the studies and debates about this correlation. It was established by comparing states and certainly not just NYC. The national decline began before “Mayor Rudy” and effected states regardless of their laws. Violence only declined previously this dramatically when prohibition laws were removed or revised.

Anybody interested can understand this correspondence by studying prostitution, drunkenness and family violence before birth control was legalized (when many poor ethnic women regularly had more than a dozen pregnancies and very short miserable lives). In South America police often have much more draconian law and order policing than in the U.S., but violent crime is endemic.

None of this is an argument against good effective policing or for or against concealed carry weapons laws. But children unwanted by their mothers (and fathers), often growing up miserable and poor, are statistically more likely to become juvenile delinquents and hardened criminals. Would you deny that?

That all depends. There is a link between poverty and crime, but that doesn't mean all single mothers live in poverty, especially today as more and more women become professionals.

What you are claiming is indirect results whereas I'm claiming direct results. The things I listed directly targeted crime. And as I pointed out, abortions soared after Roe and only started to decline in 1981 when the recession hit. I also forgot to mention the tech era where people were getting rich by the thousands every week. The better the economy, the less crime.

When you have an entire state and the largest city in the country attacking crime, it's going to show in the overall crime statistics in the country. Today NYC has a larger population than our ten least populated states combined. That's a hell of a lot of people for just one city.
 
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Flopper

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As other people here have already pointed out, it's a business investment to fund employees getting abortions. As far as red states go, we already get ourselves fixed when we reach the most kids that we want to have. It's the blue city welfare people who are going to reduce their pregnancies.

But all and all, there are a lot of early positive results stemming from the overturning of Roe.
Most of these business are only agreeing to pay travel. The abortion will be covered by insurance and travel will be deductible by the company. However, most women in red states are not going to go to their employers and announce they are pregnant and need an abortion. They are either going to handle the travel themselves are just order abortion bills and handle it at home.

I'm beginning to think overturning Roe will workout out all right for both sides. Abortion pills will be widely available eliminating the need to travel in red states. . So the number of abortions reported in red states will go down drastically. The right will pat themselves on the back for a job well done. The people on right whose only interest in the issue was states rights will move on as will the left. If we are lucky, abortion will no longer be an issue that divides us.
 
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Flopper

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That all depends. There is a link between poverty and crime, but that doesn't mean all single mothers live in poverty, especially today as more and more women become professionals.

What you are claiming is indirect results whereas I'm claiming direct results. The things I listed directly targeted crime. And as I pointed out, abortions soared after Roe and only started to decline in 1981 when the recession hit. I also forgot to mention the tech era where people were getting rich by the thousands every week. The better the economy, the less crime.

When you have an entire state and the largest city in the country attacking crime, it's going to show in the overall crime statistics in the country. Today NYC has a larger population than our ten least populated states combined. That's a hell of a lot of people for just one city.
There is directly correlation between family size and poverty today and a direct relation between poverty and a number of social ills including crime. However, as the availability of birth control and abortion increase, family size among the poor should decrease, which is a good thing for everyone.
 

initforme

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America is not a friendly country as far as wanting young women to have kids. There is a lot of resistance to paid maternity leave and other such helpful programs. So more young women decide not to have kids. Then the ones against those programs wonder why less kids are being born. It's comi
 

Concerned American

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It is looking more like the the hundreds of thousands of unwanted babies birthed by women under threat of arrest will be far less than the right anticipated due to more attention to contraception, the day after pill, use of abortion pills, increased sterilization
Your thread is fallacious as SCOTUS did not ban abortion. Second and more to the point is, ^^^ this is a bad thing? If it stops the murder of even one innocent life, it is worth it.
 

j-mac

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Did you even read the fucking OP.

  • Requests for vasectomies and tubal ligation have increased significantly in the Abortion Banned states, as much as 900% in some areas.
  • Doctors in the banned states report large numbers of requests for birth control pills, and other types of contraception.
  • Interviews with women in banned states indicate women will begin paying more attentions to contraception and use the day after pill.

All of these will lead to less pregnancies, and less pregnancies means less abortions. One thing that has stayed pretty steady over the decades is the ratio of abortions to pregnancies.
Yeah, we shall see…
 

Rigby5

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That would all depend on the state. We came up with the most strictest laws regarding abortion and Republicans still control our legislature.

But no conservatives are going to support strict state abortion laws.
Its an obvious violation of religious freedom, privacy, and even medical science, which says a fetus is not a sentient human being.
If Republicans support it, they will be alienating themselves from conservative ideology.
 

Rigby5

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No birth control is very reliable? I've used it my entire life with no problems. Same with friends and family.

Every woman I know uses either the pill or diaphragm, and every woman I know has had to have an abortion at least once.
If you think birth control is reliable, then they simply are not telling you.
 

initforme

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Conservatives do agree that less births aren't a bad thing.
 

dudmuck

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Your thread is fallacious as SCOTUS did not ban abortion. Second and more to the point is, ^^^ this is a bad thing? If it stops the murder of even one innocent life, it is worth it.
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frigidweirdo

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Unintended consequences of making abortion legal. 65 million dead babies…..

With better sex ed, this would have been less.
Then again, how many died in US wars? That the right thirst for?
 

Rigby5

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Religion is not even mentioned in all this, so you can get off of that horse.

YOU don't get to decide what a right is, the courts do. Now show me in the debates of the 14th where they discussed abortion. If a state decides that abortion is murder, then its murder period. In my state if you got drunk, killed a pregnant woman on the way home, you would get charged with two deaths: one for the mother, and the other for her fetus. Several states are the same way.

Wrong.
If government got to decide rights, then we would still be a British colony.
No, the PEOPLE get to decide, NOT government.

When the 14th amendment was ratified, abortion was completely legal in all states.

If states arbitrarily decide to infringe upon the lives of people, who are not harming any other living human beings, that is a dictatorship.
States are only supposed to represent and defend the rights of citizens, not come up with their own rules how people should live.
When they try, then they are in violation of the 14th amendment.

And the idea a fertilized fetus is a human being is not just nonsense, but obviously religious dogma. That should be offensive to all who are religious, because all religions say it is God who gets to punish sins, not governments.

Are we talking about the same state that had slavery, discrimination, Jim Crow laws, KKK extortion and lynching, etc.? If so, then clearly we are talking about a state with severe deficits in its moral and legal values.
 

Couchpotato

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With better sex ed, this would have been less.
Then again, how many died in US wars? That the right thirst for?
One has nothing to do with the other. WWI D. WW2 D Korean War D. Vietnam D. Other than the last 2 Dems have been in power when wars were started. So Im not sure what the fuck you're talking about.
 

Couchpotato

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Wrong.
People have the same number of children regardless of what the SCOTUS says.
They will either have illegal abortions, or if they have the child instead, then they will not have a child later they otherwise would have had.
The baby count is going to be identical.
Ok fool There have been 65 million children murdered in the womb since Roe. That blood is on our hands.
 

Rigby5

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Of course we do, that's why this new ruling is making people more responsible. It's why the court ruled that every American with some exceptions has the right to carry a firearm for self-defense. After all, we use our firearms between 1 and 4 million times a year for self-defense, the defense of others, or to stop a crime. Our solution is to have at least one good guy with a gun to protect children in schools.

I would be more inclined towards gun control if not for things like states trying to ban abortion. That might soon need an armed response from the general population. The support for abortion rights is about 80% and climbing.
 

Concerned American

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Then again, how many died in US wars? That the right thirst for?
HaHaHa, sure, you go with that one. WWII---democrat, Korea--democrat, Vietnam--democrat, Bosnia--democrat, Ukraine--democrat. Sure we have Grenada, Iraq, Afghanistan--republican. I'll leave gathering the discrepancies in numbers to you to figure out.
 

frigidweirdo

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One has nothing to do with the other. WWI D. WW2 D Korean War D. Vietnam D. Other than the last 2 Dems have been in power when wars were started. So Im not sure what the fuck you're talking about.

Welll..... you're being pretty liberal with reality.

Vietnam happened over a long period of time. Eisenhower was in charge when the Vietnam War started to kick off. By 1960 the US had 900 troops in Vietnam already.

Yes, the largest increase happened in 1965 which was Johnson.
The reality is that the Korean War, the Vietnam War etc were proxy wars in the Cold War. The Cold War was very much an "anti-Communist war" and the right did far, far more at pushing anti-Communism.
By the time Johnson came along, being "anti-Communist" had almost become essential in the US because of what the right had done.

At the same time, I wasn't necessarily talking presidents. I was talking support among the people. The right supported the Vietnam War far more than the left. Democratic presidents need to get support from the right, Republicans from the left, in order to win elections.
 

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