THIS is why I say Israel is fascist

[aris2chat]

I consider Daniel Pipes to be a fine scholar-----but he pushes a POV ----therefore
I would no more quote him than quote Miko Peled----not a fine scholar at all---
but a desperate seeker of attention. I do like PRIMARY SOURCES we are lucky
to have Aris, a primary source. ----our dear Roudy---another primary source----and
thru me----hubby ---another primary source having been born a bonafide "dhimmi"

Wikki is not a reliable primary source nor are propaganda videos on the net

Daniel Pipes is a catholic turk----his primary sources have been his relatives'
Elia Kazan is, unfortunately, dead

a question for our dear Roudy-----roudy---did your family need Zionist attack in order
for your family to want to leave Iraq---or Iran?

The son of Irene (née Roth) and Richard Pipes, Daniel Pipes was born in Boston, Massachusetts, in 1949. His parents had each separately with their families fled German-occupied Poland, and met in the United States.

Ahmed Subhy Mansour, a former visiting fellow at Harvard Law School, writes, "We Muslims need a thinker like Dr. Pipes, who can criticize the terrorist culture within Islam."
Militant about "Islamism" | Harvard Magazine Jan-Feb 2005

 

[Sally]

I consider Daniel Pipes to be a fine scholar-----but he pushes a POV ----therefore
I would no more quote him than quote Miko Peled----not a fine scholar at all---
but a desperate seeker of attention. I do like PRIMARY SOURCES we are lucky
to have Aris, a primary source. ----our dear Roudy---another primary source----and
thru me----hubby ---another primary source having been born a bonafide "dhimmi"

Wikki is not a reliable primary source nor are propaganda videos on the net

Daniel Pipes is a catholic turk----his primary sources have been his relatives'
Elia Kazan is, unfortunately, dead

a question for our dear Roudy-----roudy---did your family need Zionist attack in order
for your family to want to leave Iraq---or Iran?

The son of Irene (née Roth) and Richard Pipes, Daniel Pipes was born in Boston, Massachusetts, in 1949. His parents had each separately with their families fled German-occupied Poland, and met in the United States.

Ahmed Subhy Mansour, a former visiting fellow at Harvard Law School, writes, "We Muslims need a thinker like Dr. Pipes, who can criticize the terrorist culture within Islam."
Militant about "Islamism" | Harvard Magazine Jan-Feb 2005

I think it is Robert Spencer who has Turkish roots. However, when Daniel Pipes was being nominated to be on some U.S. Commission, it was none other than the Muslim editor of Pakistan Today who was championing his nomination.

 

[irosie91]

I consider Daniel Pipes to be a fine scholar-----but he pushes a POV ----therefore
I would no more quote him than quote Miko Peled----not a fine scholar at all---
but a desperate seeker of attention. I do like PRIMARY SOURCES we are lucky
to have Aris, a primary source. ----our dear Roudy---another primary source----and
thru me----hubby ---another primary source having been born a bonafide "dhimmi"

Wikki is not a reliable primary source nor are propaganda videos on the net

Daniel Pipes is a catholic turk----his primary sources have been his relatives'
Elia Kazan is, unfortunately, dead

a question for our dear Roudy-----roudy---did your family need Zionist attack in order
for your family to want to leave Iraq---or Iran?

The son of Irene (née Roth) and Richard Pipes, Daniel Pipes was born in Boston, Massachusetts, in 1949. His parents had each separately with their families fled German-occupied Poland, and met in the United States.

Ahmed Subhy Mansour, a former visiting fellow at Harvard Law School, writes, "We Muslims need a thinker like Dr. Pipes, who can criticize the terrorist culture within Islam."
Militant about "Islamism" | Harvard Magazine Jan-Feb 2005

I think it is Robert Spencer who has Turkish roots. However, when Daniel Pipes was being nominated to be on some U.S. Commission, it was none other than the Muslim editor of Pakistan Today who was championing his nomination.

oh gee Sally and Aris I HAD A SENIOR MOMENT------I was thinking of Robert Spencer----
sheeeeeesh -------------- It is Robert Spencer who I see as a very fine
scholar-----to be honest-----I never actually read a whole book by
Daniel Pipes-----if he wrote one----SHEEEEESH -----brain clog

anyway----I try not to quote----either of them ------here-----because they are POV driven by
vocation and avocation

 

[aris2chat]

The son of Irene (née Roth) and Richard Pipes, Daniel Pipes was born in Boston, Massachusetts, in 1949. His parents had each separately with their families fled German-occupied Poland, and met in the United States.

Ahmed Subhy Mansour, a former visiting fellow at Harvard Law School, writes, "We Muslims need a thinker like Dr. Pipes, who can criticize the terrorist culture within Islam."
Militant about "Islamism" | Harvard Magazine Jan-Feb 2005

I think it is Robert Spencer who has Turkish roots. However, when Daniel Pipes was being nominated to be on some U.S. Commission, it was none other than the Muslim editor of Pakistan Today who was championing his nomination.

oh gee Sally and Aris I HAD A SENIOR MOMENT------I was thinking of Robert Spencer----
sheeeeeesh -------------- It is Robert Spencer who I see as a very fine
scholar-----to be honest-----I never actually read a whole book by
Daniel Pipes-----if he wrote one----SHEEEEESH -----brain clog

anyway----I try not to quote----either of them ------here-----because they are POV driven by
vocation and avocation

Daniel has written at least 16 books and hundreds of papers and articles and received several awards.

 

[Ropey]

Amity,
If Muslims are as dumb as you paint them to be they don't deserve any better than they get.

It's about time for some more apologetic comparatives that minimize the attack on Israel and conflate Fascism to a country that doesn't have to take care of the Palestinians anywhere but in its country.

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/muslim_apologetics.htm

 

[Coyote]

ISLAMIC MEDICAL EDUCATION RESOURCES-03
0203-ETHICS OF HUMAN EXPERIMENTATION: AN ISLAMIC PERSPECTIVE

Paper written for the UAE International Conference on Healthcare Ethics 10-13 March 2002 by Prof Omar Hasan Kasule Sr. MB ChB (MUK), MPH (Harvard), DrPH (Harvard) Deputy Dean, Kulliyah of Medicine, UIA Faculty of Medicine, Kuantan MALAYSIA EM

Omar Hasan Kasule, MBChB (MUK), MPH, DrPH (Harvard) graduated from Makerere University in Uganda and subsequently obtained his postgraduate training in public health, including a doctorate in epidemiology, from Harvard University. He was a fellow at Harvard and taught a course on the delivery of maternal and child health services. At the Harvard Dana Farber Cancer Institute in Boston, Massachusetts, he worked on cancer clinical trials and analysis of cancer epidemiological data from the Eastern Cooperative Oncology Group (ECOG). Additionally, Dr. Kasule obtained a certification in Arabic and Islamic studies from Bilal institute in Kampala, Uganda.

and you consider this a hate source????

No. Not that one. Nor Wikipedia. However Daniel Pipes, and some of the others certainly fall within that category. The medical article is a good professional article. What I don't understand is why you chose it - if you are trying to infer that Muslim's have a similar attitude towards medical experimentation as the Nazi's then that article certainly doesn't support that.

The other articles are little more than highly biased opinion pieces from rightwing think tanks and bloggers. No actual scholarly or peer reviewed research. Wikipedia describes "Islamofascism" as a "neologism" - a newly coined word that is yet in the official vernacular. It's a word that's come about only since 9/11 and the upswing in anti-muslim rhetoric and sentiment that often lacks logic behind it. Your choice of links looks like a google search to find links that support your view without being discrimminating as to whether or not they are well sourced or emotionally driven. Maybe because it is such a new term there doesn't exist much in the way of good material or maybe it's such crap designation no good scholar is going to waste time on it.

I did a search - I can't find much at all that seems a good source on the topic outside of blogs and opinions much of which seem to come from groups like Daniel Pipes or Pamela Geller.

Here is one blog opinion that seems to be more accurate in defining Radical Islam - not as "fascism" but as a militant theocracy. Atheist Ethicist: Islamic Fascism - it's a leftwing opinion but it's not a hate group.

Wikipedia characterizes fascist systems in the following way: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

You might not like their point of view but they are the experts on the middle east. MEQ has arab/muslim writers as well.
Opinionated, yes. Hate sites, no.
Daniel Pipes, is considered one of the most senior scholars who focus on radical Islam.

No all muslims/arabs but radical, which we all seem to be concerned about.

It has nothing to do with "liking" or "not liking' their point of view. It is whether they are accurate and whether they are considered a "hate group". Daniel Pipes makes little distinction between "radical Islam" and Islam. You are certainly quick to label groups as hate groups when they are critical of Israel, yet reluctant to do the same for anti-Muslim hate groups. Why is that? Is it because it confirms your own point of view?

Let's look at Daniel Pipes and those he associates with:
http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/...nding-sources-behind-anti-muslim-fearmongers/

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/...osques-reflects-anti-muslim-bias-of-co-autho/

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/...osques-reflects-anti-muslim-bias-of-co-autho/

Daniel Pipes, the expert of hate

American groups outsourcing their Islamophobia - Salon.com

The sad thing is, if he were saying what he does about Jews, you would not hesitate to recognize him as a hate-monger or question his views. But because it's Islam, it's acceptable.

 

[amity1844]

And the sources YOU quote aren't POV, huh?

If anyone was totally neutral they wouldn't be saying anything interesting, would they? To me POV makes the forum go round because if we are just going to bash each other without thought provoking sources, just name calling, well, what's the point? I'll explain my point of view, you explain yours.

Now what do you all say about the topic of the thread, which is the several THOUSAND unarmed civilians Israel murdered in a single incident.

Ahmed Subhy Mansour, a former visiting fellow at Harvard Law School, writes, "We Muslims need a thinker like Dr. Pipes, who can criticize the terrorist culture within Islam."
Militant about "Islamism" | Harvard Magazine Jan-Feb 2005

Thanks. This is helpful.

 

[Coyote]

Robert Spencer is worse than Daniel Pipes.

http://www.splcenter.org/get informed/intelligence files/profiles/Robert Spencer

I see little to admire.

 

[Coyote]

And the sources YOU quote aren't POV, huh?

If anyone was totally neutral they wouldn't be saying anything interesting, would they? To me POV makes the forum go round because if we are just going to bash each other without thought provoking sources, just name calling, well, what's the point? I'll explain my point of view, you explain yours.

Now what do you all say about the topic of the thread, which is the several THOUSAND unarmed civilians Israel murdered in a single incident.

I don't think ANY of us are neutral, not in IP.

What's POV?

 

[Sally]

Robert Spencer is worse than Daniel Pipes.

http://www.splcenter.org/get informed/intelligence files/profiles/Robert Spencer

I see little to admire.

I see very little to admire about those who write Arab propaganda. Meanwhile, when you get the backing of a Pakistani Muslim editor if you are lucky enough to be nominated for some U.S. commission as Daniel Pipes did, then perhaps the viewers will sit up and take notice of you.

 

[amity1844]

It is mildly amusing when americans think their system is transferable to other countries far old.
I'm sure the intent is good but it does not work like that.
The confessional system in Lebanon was so all religions would be represented and no single religion could cut another out.
If the diaspora is included, christians would still be dominant. So many left during the war, as did the jews. Muslims, particularly the shiite were as a whole less affluent and likely could not afford to leave, though today most families have many children that found well paying jobs outside of Lebanon and send money back to support those remaining.
Americans republic, divided by states and population can't work in Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, Libya, etc. You can't take religion out of the equation of life, culture or politics in the middle east. Nor would it be right to have one sect dominate and not let others have representation.

The confessional system in Lebanon was about France carving out a state with a Maronite majority and institutionalizing that arrangement so that France would have a bellwether for its interests in the middle east. But things changed. Maronites are a small minority at this point. It is the same problem Israel will face in a couple of decades. How should Lebanon adapt? How should Israel adapt?

 

[Sally]

It is mildly amusing when americans think their system is transferable to other countries far old.
I'm sure the intent is good but it does not work like that.
The confessional system in Lebanon was so all religions would be represented and no single religion could cut another out.
If the diaspora is included, christians would still be dominant. So many left during the war, as did the jews. Muslims, particularly the shiite were as a whole less affluent and likely could not afford to leave, though today most families have many children that found well paying jobs outside of Lebanon and send money back to support those remaining.
Americans republic, divided by states and population can't work in Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, Libya, etc. You can't take religion out of the equation of life, culture or politics in the middle east. Nor would it be right to have one sect dominate and not let others have representation.

The confessional system in Lebanon was about France carving out a state with a Maronite majority and institutionalizing that arrangement so that France would have a bellwether for its interests in the middle east. But things changed. Maronites are a small minority at this point. It is the same problem Israel will face in a couple of decades. How should Lebanon adapt? How should Israel adapt?

Sad. isn't it, how Amity's friends want to take over the entire Middie East for Islam? They are not satisfied with running the vast majority of land in the Middle East -- they want it all. When you speak to Lebanese Christians in this country, they lament how beautiful their country used to be, but no more.

 

[amity1844]

And the sources YOU quote aren't POV, huh?

If anyone was totally neutral they wouldn't be saying anything interesting, would they? To me POV makes the forum go round because if we are just going to bash each other without thought provoking sources, just name calling, well, what's the point? I'll explain my point of view, you explain yours.

Now what do you all say about the topic of the thread, which is the several THOUSAND unarmed civilians Israel murdered in a single incident.

I don't think ANY of us are neutral, not in IP.

What's POV?

I think it means "point of view" and is shorthand for "biased."

 

[MHunterB]

Thierry Meyssan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pipes may be 'right-wing', but the Voltaire Network was founded by Thierry Meyssan, who is extremely left-wing. He now lives in Lebanon and works for a Russian news outlet. Oh, and he's a 'troofer'.......

 

[Coyote]

Robert Spencer is worse than Daniel Pipes.

http://www.splcenter.org/get informed/intelligence files/profiles/Robert Spencer

I see little to admire.

I see very little to admire about those who write Arab propaganda. Meanwhile, when you get the backing of a Pakistani Muslim editor if you are lucky enough to be nominated for some U.S. commission as Daniel Pipes did, then perhaps the viewers will sit up and take notice of you.

That doesn't make one any less of a bigot Sally...look at McCarthy. You don't have to be right - you just have to feed fear.

 

[Coyote]

Thierry Meyssan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pipes may be 'right-wing', but the Voltaire Network was founded by Thierry Meyssan, who is extremely left-wing. He now lives in Lebanon and works for a Russian news outlet. Oh, and he's a 'troofer'.......

Mea culpa - I didn't research it. Ok, bad choice on my part

That doesn't make Pipes any less of a hater.

I think people are drawn to viewpoints that reflect their own fears and don't look critically at those views. It's a red flag - imo - when that view point promotes fear mongering, intolerance and hate.

 

[Sally]

Thierry Meyssan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pipes may be 'right-wing', but the Voltaire Network was founded by Thierry Meyssan, who is extremely left-wing. He now lives in Lebanon and works for a Russian news outlet. Oh, and he's a 'troofer'.......

Mea culpa - I didn't research it. Ok, bad choice on my part

That doesn't make Pipes any less of a hater.

I think people are drawn to viewpoints that reflect their own fears and don't look critically at those views. It's a red flag - imo - when that view point promotes fear mongering, intolerance and hate.

And, I think many of the viewers realize that so much which has been posted here is to get the people to hate the Jews as much as they do. Meanwhile, regardless of what people think of Daniel Pipes, he has a good reputation as being an Islamic scholar, and he is basically only against radical Islam. I am sure that the summer he spent out here at Pepperdine College was an enjoyable one for his students, and they probably learned a lot.

 

[Coyote]

Thierry Meyssan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pipes may be 'right-wing', but the Voltaire Network was founded by Thierry Meyssan, who is extremely left-wing. He now lives in Lebanon and works for a Russian news outlet. Oh, and he's a 'troofer'.......

Mea culpa - I didn't research it. Ok, bad choice on my part

That doesn't make Pipes any less of a hater.

I think people are drawn to viewpoints that reflect their own fears and don't look critically at those views. It's a red flag - imo - when that view point promotes fear mongering, intolerance and hate.

And, I think many of the viewers realize that so much which has been posted here is to get the people to hate the Jews as much as they do. Meanwhile, regardless of what people think of Daniel Pipes, he has a good reputation as being an Islamic scholar, and he is basically only against radical Islam. I am sure that the summer he spent out here at Pepperdine College was an enjoyable one for his students, and they probably learned a lot.

Sally, why does it have to be "either/or"?

Either you hate Muslims/or you hate Jews.

Either it's ok to hate Muslims/or it's ok to hate Jews?

Don't you think, maybe - that hatred of any group, as a group is just plain wrong? And dangerous?

Pipes draws LITTLE distinction between Islam and Radical Islam.

That's the problem.

 

[aris2chat]

Robert Spencer is worse than Daniel Pipes.

http://www.splcenter.org/get informed/intelligence files/profiles/Robert Spencer

I see little to admire.

I agree about some of Spencer. I happen to respect a lot of what Pipes has to say.

Don't always have to agree to to find some factual observation, understand their point of view and why they come to certain conclusions.

I've read extremes from several perspectives, some of the most venomous hate. I don't particularly think Pipes should be in that category.

 

[Sally]

Mea culpa - I didn't research it. Ok, bad choice on my part

That doesn't make Pipes any less of a hater.

I think people are drawn to viewpoints that reflect their own fears and don't look critically at those views. It's a red flag - imo - when that view point promotes fear mongering, intolerance and hate.

And, I think many of the viewers realize that so much which has been posted here is to get the people to hate the Jews as much as they do. Meanwhile, regardless of what people think of Daniel Pipes, he has a good reputation as being an Islamic scholar, and he is basically only against radical Islam. I am sure that the summer he spent out here at Pepperdine College was an enjoyable one for his students, and they probably learned a lot.

Sally, why does it have to be "either/or"?

Either you hate Muslims/or you hate Jews.

Either it's ok to hate Muslims/or it's ok to hate Jews?

Don't you think, maybe - that hatred of any group, as a group is just plain wrong? And dangerous?

Pipes draws LITTLE distinction between Islam and Radical Islam.

That's the problem.

Where you are so confused, Coyote, is that you think that everyone hates Muslims. The fact is that they hate the radical Muslims who want to kill not only the Infidels but also Muslims who are not of their sect. With all your hullabaloo about people hating the Muslims, even you wouldn't be safe amongst many of them no matter how much you try to stick up for them. Do you actually think that Muslims who want to live in peace really love those who are doing all the killings? If you think that Pipes is trying to put down Islam, then there really is no use arguing with you. Your mind is made up. Evidently that Muslim editor who championed him thought differently from you. I think I will go with what the Muslim editor thought about Daniel Pipes, and not you, and I think most people would too.