Zone1 There is no Salvation Outside the Catholic Faith

[TruthSeeker112125]

Catholicism, is the Root of "Christian Blasphemies" that absolutely distort/corrupt the Teachings of The Messiah, His Prophets, The Biblical Histories, & The Torah.

Shockingly,..... Despite the "Reformation",...... Many Core Teachings/Doctrine of Catholicism are still deeply embraced by the "Breakaway Daughters" of Catholicism.

The Pope, is not, nor was ever, the Representative of The Almighty LORD GOD here on Earth.

Mary, is not a Virgin, nor is she in Heaven,... She is Dead & Buried, awaiting the Last Trumpet of The Resurrection.

No where, in The Scriptures, is it suggested, nor Commanded to Pray to anyone, other than The Almighty LORD GOD.
institutionalized, over the Blasphemous lie, that The Messiah was crucified, died, & was buried, on Good Friday, & that he rose from the dead early Sunday morning.:
Mat 12:38 Then certain of the scribes and Pharisees answered, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from you.”
Mat 12:39 But he answered them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, but no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet.
Mat 12:40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Upon examining the Scriptural & Historical evidence,.... The Messiah was crucified on the Third Day of the Week, and rose from the dead on His Sabbath Day.
Per many Scriptures,.... Neither The Messiah, nor His Apostles, nor The Prophets, nor the Patriarchs, kept any of the "Re-packaged, & Greatly Perfumed Pagan Holidays", such as Xmas, Easter, Halloween, Valentine's Day, Advent, etc.
Per many Scriptures,.... No Priest, Bishop, Cardinal, nor the Pope can forgive anyone of their Sin.
"The "Taking of Communion",.... Which is a Blasphemous Mockery of "The Passover", does not place The Messiah within anyone.
I could go on, & on, as to why "Catholicism" is a Blasphemous Mockery of the Truth of "The Way" found in The Scriptures., & that goes for the vast majority of the at least 30,000 widely different & heretical sects of the "Break Away Daughters of Catholicism".
There is only "One Way", found in The Scriptures, & Yet Man's Religions reject it.
Eph 2:11 Therefore remember that once you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “uncircumcision” by that which is called “circumcision”, (in the flesh, made by hands);
Eph 2:12 that you were at that time separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off are made near in the blood of Christ.
Eph 3:6 that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of his promise in Christ Jesus through the Good News,

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as you also were called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in us all

 

[Meriweather]

He is faithful and just to not only forgive us of our sin, but to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. It's a deep theological question as to how He severs our attachment to sin, but I believe that when I die, I leave everything of this earth behind and I'm free to be in God's presence, covered by the blood of Christ, fully forgiven and with no inclination to sin anymore.

Jesus already gave his blood for the covenant of the New Testament. So how is it we still have the inclination to sin?

 

[Meriweather]

If it dies and does not follow you (that's what I believe), are you not already purified because you have no further inclination to sin, leaving only forgiveness for sin, which Jesus grants and believers don't have to earn? Remember, He paid the total price for all sin, so we don't suffer any penalty for it. And if the sin nature is gone, there would be nothing keeping the saint from immediately pleading Jesus' blood to cover him, no hiding out of shame, desiring to fall back into it or anything like that. I do not, for example, believe that Jesus would not immediately reveal sin to a saint just for the purpose of making him suffer. God forbid. No extra time or suffering would then be required because the cleansing and purifying is done as soon as the saint appears before Christ. Why would God take extra time and make you suffer if your sin nature is no more and He forgives immediately and totally? Sin is forgiven freely and immediately, unless you believe you have to earn forgiveness, which I emphatically do not. That would counter the Gospel.

Your logic does not work for me. Jesus did not come to reassure us that we can sin in this life because the moment we die, we will be someone else entirely with no desire to sin or to do anything that separates us from God. Think about it. How did being in God's presence stop those angels from electing to be separate from God?

Your hypothesis seems to be that the moment of death, you are no longer yourself, but someone else--and that someone else won't do anything that separates him/her from God.

Keep in mind Jesus taught repentance/giving up that sin for the the forgiveness of sin. It seems rather blase to say, Oh, I'll give it up once I die because, after my death, Jesus will make sure I no longer want to sin anyway.

Someone giving up a particular sin in this life is not them trying to "earn" forgiveness. It is them reaching towards God instead of doing something that distances them from God.

 

[Meriweather]

I believe God is faithful and just to not only forgive me of my sin, but to cleanse me from all unrighteousness. Not by my efforts, but by His grace. Purgatory just sounds like God imposing something I have to earn between me and Him, and that's not the Gospel.

Are you saying that God must wait until you die to cleanse you? Again, note how Jesus and the Apostles used the words translated into English as 'purification' and 'purging', hence purgatory. It seems you believe that, after death, you will be cleansed, but you refuse to call this cleansing purification-purging-purgatory.

Catholics believe that, with God's grace, purification/giving up sin that separates us from God, is a part of this life. We, with our free will, freely and willingly work with God to give up sin. We are confident and peaceful, knowing that all previous sins are forgiven and remembered no more. However, God is not blind to the sin currently being committed in his sight.

 

[Zebra]

The Catholic Church (no longer extant in the Vatican) has taught this (extra ecclessiam nulla salus [Outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation]) for 20+ centuries.

A priest named Father Feeney persisted in teaching this dogma in the 40s and 50s.

Vatican staff defied him and threatened him, finally "excommunicating him" but it was not a real excommunication for a plethora of reasons...

See this site for details

Modernists use Anti-Feeney Pseudo-Holy Office Letter to ‘justify’ Francis’ latest heresy

MHFM: It’s interesting that certain modernist defenders of the Whore of Babylon (i.e. the Vatican II Sect) are citing the pseudo-Holy Office letter, called Suprema Haec Sacra (dated Aug. 8, 1949), written against Fr. Feeney, [...]

vaticancatholic.com

Another interesting (and at times accidentally comical-at least to me)
video on heresy

Christian Wagner’s Lies, Contradictions & Errors Exposed

This video contains many important quotes and facts that are relevant to many aspects of the current controversies. 0:00 Intro0:54 Wagner Falsifies Theological History On Loss Of Office2:12 Wagner’s Lies About Florence, Torquemada & Salvation3:31 He Says You Must Interpret Councils According To...

endtimes.video

there is ….

 

[hadit]

Your logic does not work for me. Jesus did not come to reassure us that we can sin in this life because the moment we die, we will be someone else entirely with no desire to sin or to do anything that separates us from God. Think about it. How did being in God's presence stop those angels from electing to be separate from God?

Obviously, they had autonomy at one point to choose service to God or rebellion. Whether they still have that choice or not is unknown. Consider, could a fallen angel repent and be restored to fellowship with God, or has that choice been taken from them? Could an angel now serving God rebel and be cast out of heaven? Unknown, but I don't see it in Scripture that they can.

Now, it appears that you believe our sin nature, which you claim Mary never had, follows us into the presence of God and we will be able to rebel against Him even as live in eternity with Him. Is that correct?

You say God will not tolerate sin in His presence. I agree. What then, will He do with those who sin after He has welcomed them into His presence? Are they ejected from heaven, punished with those who rejected God in their lives here on earth, or is their situation secure because no one can take them out of Christ's hands?

Your hypothesis seems to be that the moment of death, you are no longer yourself, but someone else--and that someone else won't do anything that separates him/her from God.

I believe that God has to do something like that, or we would face what I said before, people being kicked out of heaven for sinning after they are welcomed in. I don't see any Scriptural support for that. I also believe that, when I die, my sin nature dies with my body, and I am free from it. Don't you believe that?

Keep in mind Jesus taught repentance/giving up that sin for the the forgiveness of sin. It seems rather blase to say, Oh, I'll give it up once I die because, after my death, Jesus will make sure I no longer want to sin anyway.

No, we are to repent of our sin. Saying I will give it up when I die is rejecting God's call to repentance here and now and places you squarely in a position of rebellion against God, which is where you do NOT want to be.

Someone giving up a particular sin in this life is not them trying to "earn" forgiveness. It is them reaching towards God instead of doing something that distances them from God.

What then is Purgatory, if not earning forgiveness through suffering? If forgiveness is granted freely upon repentance (which is the message of the Gospel. Jesus paid the penalty for sin, we don't have to suffer it), then why is untold time in suffering required to be cleansed of all unrighteousness?

That, to me, is adding to Jesus' sacrifice for sin. Remember that we are told Purgatory is a time of suffering to "work on ourselves".

 

[toobfreak]

The Catholic Church (no longer extant in the Vatican) has taught this (extra ecclessiam nulla salus [Outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation]) for 20+ centuries.

Yes, and for most of those centuries, the church held to a strictly Ptolemaic interpretation of the Bible that held to an Earth-centric view of the world in order to keep political control over others that did not allow that view to even be questioned that resulted in some of the brightest people of that time being burned at the stake for their blasphemy, and the church held back scientific advancement for at least two centuries that any simple person could see was true by just holding up one of Galileo's telescopes to the sky to see that the Earth and all its worlds revolve around the SUN and not the Earth, and that Copernicus was right.

 

[Meriweather]

What then is Purgatory, if not earning forgiveness through suffering?

Why do you believe purgatory is suffering and that "earning" has anything to do with it. We are being fully prepared for our final entrance into heaven/the presence of God so that we can be fully able to embrace him. A rather poor analogy, but try thinking of how close you want to be to God: Do you want to be in his arms, or do you want to be at the edge of a crowd? Either way, you are still in God's presence. How close do you want to be?

 

[hadit]

Why do you believe purgatory is suffering

Because it is Catholic doctrine. You've said it involves suffering, Catholic Answers says it involves suffering, I don't know of anyone who says it does not involve suffering. If you say different, tell me why you go against Catholic Church tradition.

and that "earning" has anything to do with it.

Are you not attempting to reach a standard? And when you finally achieve that standard, did you earn it or was it simply handed to you whether you did anything to earn it or not? IOW, if you become a doctor, did you earn that title or was it just given to you like a participation trophy? Likewise, when you leave Purgatory, is release given to you regardless of what you did, or do you earn your release?

You say Purgatory is a time to work on yourself, so what are you doing if not earning your way out of it? Do you just spend some time in there and walk out when God says it's enough, though you've done nothing to deserve release, or do you get out because you work hard to deserve, aka earn release?

To me, it's equivocation to say you're not earning anything though you work hard for it and expect those who do not work for it to also not receive it. If you're not earning your way out of Purgatory, are you going to be upset if someone who doesn't do anything while they are in there gets out anyway and you didn't have to do all that work? That's the difference between a gift and earning. A gift is given freely, it's undeserved and the giver is under no compulsion to give it. A paycheck is earned, it can be demanded, it puts an obligation on the person giving it. In that light, is release from Purgatory a gift freely given or is it earned?

We are being fully prepared for our final entrance into heaven/the presence of God so that we can be fully able to embrace him. A rather poor analogy, but try thinking of how close you want to be to God: Do you want to be in his arms, or do you want to be at the edge of a crowd? Either way, you are still in God's presence. How close do you want to be?

I believe I am completely restored to full relationship with God as Christ intended with His sacrifice. I believe that God does not see my sin as it is covered by Christ's blood. I do believe those who loved, served and obeyed Him more in their lives will get more rewards than those who served Him less, but I don't think that is influenced by some unknown period of time spent in Purgatory. I do not believe God will allow sinful beings to stand before Him, so I fully expect to be completely cleansed of all unrighteousness by His grace, not by my own efforts.

 

[Meriweather]

Because it is Catholic doctrine. You've said it involves suffering, Catholic Answers says it involves suffering, I don't know of anyone who says it does not involve suffering. If you say different, tell me why you go against Catholic Church tradition.

Where did I say it involves suffering? The closest my thinking comes to that is that the purification has been compared to gold tested in fire. I believe the Catechism of the Catholic Church uses that same analogy, that of a purifying fire that is unlike any fire the damned may have.

From homilies and Catholic bible studies I have attended, purgatory is a waiting period for purification to be completed, while knowing one is being prepared for heaven.

"Catholic Answers" is not a site I use, because I don't know the credentials of those who post on that site. I stick with the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the USCCB as my reference points.

 

[Meriweather]

Are you not attempting to reach a standard? And when you finally achieve that standard, did you earn it or was it simply handed to you whether you did anything to earn it or not? IOW, if you become a doctor, did you earn that title or was it just given to you like a participation trophy? Likewise, when you leave Purgatory, is release given to you regardless of what you did, or do you earn your release?

Are you familiar with New Years Resolutions? Do you see those as earning something? If so, what? Are you saying working on self-improvement is an awful thing to do? A sin many are familiar with is gluttony. Are you against anyone watching what they eat because they don't want to be caught trying to earn something?

 

[Meriweather]

You say Purgatory is a time to work on yourself, so what are you doing if not earning your way out of it?

Please direct me to the quote where I said, "Purgatory is time to work on yourself..."

 

[Meriweather]

I believe that God does not see my sin as it is covered by Christ's blood.

Ah. So your sin(ning) remains, but God doesn't see it.

 

[Hafar1014]

Ah. So your sin(ning) remains, but God doesn't see it.

Just make nice donation to the church sins go away

 

[hadit]

Are you familiar with New Years Resolutions? Do you see those as earning something?

Ah, good one. A New Year's resolution. Let's look at one. You and your husband both resolve to drop 10 pounds. You start watching carefully what and how much you eat. You walk several miles a day at the crack of dawn. After a month, you get on the scale and...you lost 3 pounds. Meanwhile, your husband, who never really intended to work at losing weight but switched from sugared to non-sugared drinks and cut out second bowls of ice cream has lost 8 pounds already. Was he given a gift because he has a faster metabolism or has he earned his weight loss? Have you earned your 3-pound loss or was it a gift that required nothing from you?

Absolutely I view sticking with such a resolution and enjoying the benefits thereof as having earned something. I do not, however, view accepting the gift of salvation to be an accomplishment, as it is a gift.

If so, what? Are you saying working on self-improvement is an awful thing to do? A sin many are familiar with is gluttony. Are you against anyone watching what they eat because they don't want to be caught trying to earn something?

Here's where you again wonder off into ludicrous land.

1. Salvation through Jesus' sacrifice is an absolute, total, undeserved and unearned gift. Avoiding overeating is not a gift, but work, a task. See the difference? I do.
2. I expect people who change their diets and exercise habits so they can improve their lives to be proud of their accomplishments when they see the pounds drop off. I don't, however, expect people who are walking with Christ to be proud of accomplishing salvation, because, as Paul put it, salvation is the gift of God so that no one can boast. See the difference? I do. If I can add to or take away from Christ's sacrifice, than I could boast. I can do neither.

 

[hadit]

Ah. So your sin(ning) remains, but God doesn't see it.

It is covered by the blood of Christ. I don't think it really matters if it's there and unseen or it's all wiped away and all He sees is me purified, do you? Either way, I'm cleansed from all unrighteousness, which is the goal.

Actually, it is gone. There is no hiding anything from God.

 

[hadit]

Where did I say it involves suffering? The closest my thinking comes to that is that the purification has been compared to gold tested in fire. I believe the Catechism of the Catholic Church uses that same analogy, that of a purifying fire that is unlike any fire the damned may have.

From homilies and Catholic bible studies I have attended, purgatory is a waiting period for purification to be completed, while knowing one is being prepared for heaven.

"Catholic Answers" is not a site I use, because I don't know the credentials of those who post on that site. I stick with the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the USCCB as my reference points.

Do you subscribe to what saints and Church authorities of the past have said? When they coincide with what you believe, I think you do. Would you post your sources that say differently? It's a simple question, after all. Does purgatory involve suffering?

St. Catherine of Genoa, who is said to have suffered the pain of purgatory on earth, claimed “there is in purgatory as much pain as in hell” (Treatise on Purgatory). Like the damned, souls there suffer hunger for the God they don’t yet see—like a man who could live without eating, hungering more and more for the bread he doesn’t have (to use St. Catherine’s image). And they suffer from fire that “will be more painful than anything man can suffer in the present life” (St. Augustine, On Psalm 37:3).

Once St. Catherine of Ricci is said to have suffered 40 days for a soul in Purgatory—when a novice touched her hand, she remarked, “Mother, you are burning!”


At the same time, St. Catherine of Genoa also taught, “Souls in purgatory unite great joy with great suffering … No peace is comparable to that of the souls in purgatory, except that of the saints in heaven.”

There’s a mysterious ebb and flow of pain and joy in Purgatory, says the Dominican Fr. Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange, because the suffering is temporary and leads to heaven: The more the soul loves God, the more it suffers not seeing Him; the more if suffers, the more joy and love it has in drawing closer to God.

The saints tell us what Purgatory is actually like

 

[hadit]

Please direct me to the quote where I said, "Purgatory is time to work on yourself..."

If that's not what you meant, what did you mean with this? Did you mean to switch from working on yourself to some other means of purification?

Zone1 - A Major Difference of the Catholic Faith

 

[Meriweather]

Just make nice donation to the church sins go away

No, they don't. Is that how your own sins (if you even have any) go away?

 

[Meriweather]

Ah, good one. A New Year's resolution. Let's look at one. You and your husband both resolve to drop 10 pounds. You start watching carefully what and how much you eat. You walk several miles a day at the crack of dawn. After a month, you get on the scale and...you lost 3 pounds. Meanwhile, your husband, who never really intended to work at losing weight but switched from sugared to non-sugared drinks and cut out second bowls of ice cream has lost 8 pounds already. Was he given a gift because he has a faster metabolism or has he earned his weight loss? Have you earned your 3-pound loss or was it a gift that required nothing from you?

Absolutely I view sticking with such a resolution and enjoying the benefits thereof as having earned something. I do not, however, view accepting the gift of salvation to be an accomplishment, as it is a gift.

Why would weight loss be considered a gift?