Zone1 There is no Salvation Outside the Catholic Faith

[Carl in Michigan]

Well, you just cannot teach people who do not want to learn, don't want to know what you know

Yes. Dealing with you is beating my head against the wall.

 

[Meriweather]

It means that His Church is not bound by organizations, that He is wherever His people are, and His people are all those who call on His name, not just who belong to a particular organization.

I am asking for specifics. What does 'call on his name' mean? Give an example.

 

[Meriweather]

It means, "if any man has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His"

And how is that known? Again, specifics, please.

 

[hadit]

I am asking for specifics. What does 'call on his name' mean? Give an example.

As we all know from reading Scripture, to call on the name of the Lord is to cry out to Him, putting your faith in Him. I thought that was well known to all Christians. The Body of Christ, aka His Church, is in the hearts of all who call on His name and put their faith in Him. Do I have to spell out what it means to be a believer?

 

[hadit]

It is not confusing to me.

So there's that...

One would hope that you could follow what you're claiming. The bottom line remains, however, that you are claiming the Catholic Church is it, the one and only hope for salvation, while simultaneously claiming it has gone corrupt in the last few decades and you're following something else, but still claiming there is no hope outside of it, and stuff like that.

 

[Zebra]

The Catholic Church (no longer extant in the Vatican) has taught this (extra ecclessiam nulla salus [Outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation]) for 20+ centuries.

A priest named Father Feeney persisted in teaching this dogma in the 40s and 50s.

Vatican staff defied him and threatened him, finally "excommunicating him" but it was not a real excommunication for a plethora of reasons...

See this site for details

Modernists use Anti-Feeney Pseudo-Holy Office Letter to ‘justify’ Francis’ latest heresy

MHFM: It’s interesting that certain modernist defenders of the Whore of Babylon (i.e. the Vatican II Sect) are citing the pseudo-Holy Office letter, called Suprema Haec Sacra (dated Aug. 8, 1949), written against Fr. Feeney, [...]

vaticancatholic.com

Another interesting (and at times accidentally comical-at least to me)
video on heresy

Christian Wagner’s Lies, Contradictions & Errors Exposed

This video contains many important quotes and facts that are relevant to many aspects of the current controversies. 0:00 Intro0:54 Wagner Falsifies Theological History On Loss Of Office2:12 Wagner’s Lies About Florence, Torquemada & Salvation3:31 He Says You Must Interpret Councils According To...

endtimes.video

you seriously think there are only Catholics in heaven.?

 

[hadit]

you seriously think there are only Catholics in heaven.?

I fully expect to be rubbing elbows with people from all walks of life and all denominations when I'm worshipping before the throne. Those who expect only Catholics to be there are in for a rude awakening.

 

[Meriweather]

As we all know from reading Scripture, to call on the name of the Lord is to cry out to Him, putting your faith in Him. I thought that was well known to all Christians. The Body of Christ, aka His Church, is in the hearts of all who call on His name and put their faith in Him. Do I have to spell out what it means to be a believer?

My point is when I need help, I can call on any number of people having faith that they will lend a hand. However, that is a very minimal part of our relationship, any relationship. Is that how some see Christ: That when they need help, they have faith he will lend a hand?

 

[Meriweather]

One would hope that you could follow what you're claiming. The bottom line remains, however, that you are claiming the Catholic Church is it, the one and only hope for salvation, while simultaneously claiming it has gone corrupt in the last few decades and you're following something else, but still claiming there is no hope outside of it, and stuff like that.

My perspective (based on Catholic teaching) that forkintheroad7 seems to overlook is that the Catholic Church (or any religion/faith) exists in a fallen world, run by fallen people, for a fallen people. Therefore, the Catholic faith has never been perfect, ideal, or without failings. However, where the Church has never failed is in guiding and pointing the way to Jesus through apostolic teachings and traditions. No Council, no changes by Vatican II, no pope digging up a the deceased predecessor and dragging him through the streets to put the corpse on trial changes any of that. Through all its failings, the Church points to--and follows--Jesus. Do I agree with everything Vatican II changed? No. The hope was to bring better understanding of the Church/Jesus into the modern world--assist the people to become even more engaged. Vatican II was well intended--and it followed Jesus just as sincerely (and perhaps more so) than past liturgical changes.

The Church is not corrupt. It is as fallen as it has always been while still pointing/leading to the ideal.

 

[hadit]

My point is when I need help, I can call on any number of people having faith that they will lend a hand. However, that is a very minimal part of our relationship, any relationship. Is that how some see Christ: That when they need help, they have faith he will lend a hand?

This is not calling on Him because we need help, this is answering His statement that all who call on the name of the Lord will be saved. I will NOT call on anyone else to save my soul.

 

[Meriweather]

This is not calling on Him because we need help, this is answering His statement that all who call on the name of the Lord will be saved. I will NOT call on anyone else to save my soul.

And nor will you, yourself, work towards that end? Catholics follow The Way, Jesus' Way of Salvation. Jesus called upon us to discern the will of God and to follow it. In other words, in the Catholic life, Jesus calls us to action, and specific action at that. Life is not a matter of telling Jesus we have faith that he will save us--and then continue on our own merry way (or in my case, my Meri way).

Protestants seem to believe there is very little they have to do (My yoke is easy; the burden light philosophy). Catholics seem to believe there is also discipline involved (discipline and disciple are from the same root philosophy).

 

[ninja007]

1 John 5:13 KJV - These things have I written unto you​

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe.

 

[hadit]

And nor will you, yourself, work towards that end? Catholics follow The Way, Jesus' Way of Salvation. Jesus called upon us to discern the will of God and to follow it. In other words, in the Catholic life, Jesus calls us to action, and specific action at that. Life is not a matter of telling Jesus we have faith that he will save us--and then continue on our own merry way (or in my case, my Meri way).

Protestants seem to believe there is very little they have to do (My yoke is easy; the burden light philosophy). Catholics seem to believe there is also discipline involved (discipline and disciple are from the same root philosophy).

We've been over this before. Salvation is whole and complete, Jesus finished it on the cross. His most well-known statement from the cross is, "It is finished", and that term in the original language means it's done, it's complete in every way. That means that no, my salvation does not depend on me modifying my behavior, trying to be good, or fighting temptation. It is complete and totally done. I can't add to it or take away from it.

Now, that being said, what does it mean to be saved? It most certainly does NOT mean, "I make a statement and go back to living however I want to live". Not at all. It means a total and radical transformation of the heart and spirit. It means God's indwelling presence in the person guiding and leading that person into greater relationship with God. It means a shift in perspective.

Jesus gave us commands to follow. Here's the critical difference between works-based and faith-based theologies. A works-based theology insists that we have to follow Christ's commands out of fear, out of a desire to make ourselves worthy of salvation, thinking that we need to do something to complete salvation, that it's missing something that we have to provide. IOW, Jesus PLUS. That is completely false. A person who is indwelt by the Spirit, as Christ promised, follows Christ's commands out of love and joy. He/she is able to follow those commands because they want to please God, not because they hope He will save them if they are good enough. Do you see the difference? I return again to the analogy I've used before. When I married my wife, it would have been easier for her to hand me a list of commands that I needed to follow to make her happy. Put the toilet seat down, come home straight after work, treat my Dad with respect, etc. Agreed? Instead, I committed myself to watching her, to understanding what made her happy and doing my best to show her respect and love by doing those things. I didn't do those things because I was trying to earn her love or because I was afraid of making her angry if I didn't. I knew she loved me, I loved her, and I did those things because of our relationship.

We both believe in discipline. I believe in it as preparation for service, as something to strengthen my faith, as something to bring my mind and body under God's control, NOT something I have to do to earn or add to salvation.

NOWHERE do I say we are free to claim salvation and return to living for ourselves. Quite the contrary, following Jesus is a radical commitment.

 

[TruthSeeker112125]

I was raised "Roman Catholic", & I was even an "Un-abused" Altar biy, up to the point where I began asking questions in "Catechism Class" about the "Teachings" of Catholicism.

I got my mouth slapped by a Nun, for blurting out in Class, that in the Scriptures The Messiah stated that He would be dead, & buried 3 days, & 3 nights, and that "Good Friday to Easter Sunday morning" was not 72 hours. My Parents were told of this, & My Mother, & later that day my Grandmother whupped me for "Being Disrespectful".

I enlisted in the Army, shortly before my 18th birthday, & from that time onward,..... I never returned to the Catholic Church, for many reasons, especially the Fact that Catholicism did not follow/uphold Scripture.

My journey in search of the Truth, was greatly assisted, once the Internet became available in the area where I live, & then It was Truly Amazing & Mind Boggling what I've Learned about the Religions of Man that lay claim to The Scriptures, being "Judaism",Catholicism and It's Breakaway Daughters, being the at least 30,000 widely different Sects of "Christianity", as well as "Islam".

Herein this conversation "There is no Salvation Outside the Catholic Faith", I've seen Catholics, Christians, & Jews railing against each other, as if the "Crusades", "Inquisitions", & the Protestant/Catholic Wars were still ongoing, all zealosuly claim to be the "Right One"!

Now here's some Hard Core Truths,...... That The Majority herein will reject.:

"Judaism" upon it's return from Babylon, never returned to The Teachings of The Way honored by Kings Solomon, & David, as well as the Prophets/Patriarchs, & Torah,.... They Upheld the Satanically Inspired "Oral Law", which after the Destruction of the Second Temple, that "Oral Law" became the massive collection of Rabbi's Teachings called the "Talmud","Gematria", & other Works as well as Kabbalah. And they also are responsible for putting together The Tanach/Old Testament, of which,..... In The Talmud they admit that they left out previously accepted "Works" such as Enoch,Yasher, the Maccabees, etc. In other words,.... "Judaism" in it's at least 10 widely divided Sects, with the exception of "Messianic Judaism",..... Is Light Years from being "The Way of The Scriptures".

Catholicism began with Constantine the Great, as he was establishing his hold on the Roman Empire. A Major Problem for Constantine was that a "Faith in The Resurrected Messiah: was spreading across the Empire faster than a California Forest Fire. These "Believers" were willing to die for their Faith, that was not rooted in Materialism.

Constantine took his belief in the God "Mithra", & merged it with the Teachings honored by the 'Believers", & made that Blasphemous practice the State Religion of The Roman Empire. If One wasn't Catholic, they became a "Second Rate Citizen" that would suffer various means of persecution in the Empire.

I Apologize, but where I had intended to post a great deal of Scriptural, Doctrinal, & Historical Data herein this post,..... My time has grown short, & I have to get off the Internet.

Before I go,....... "Christianity", or The "Breakaway Daughters of Catholicism", that started with Martin Luther, began as the "Lutheran Faith". As time went by, & the "Fire of the Reformation" spread across Europe, & England,..... Despite the proclamations of these ever growing & evolving "Christian Sects",......... The majority continued to Honor The core Teachings of Catholicism, such as the "Sunday Sabbath", it's Pagan, Repackaged & Highly Perfumed Holidays, such as Easter & Xmas, & more.

The Scriptures speak of the "Way", & Yet Man's Religions, being those that I've referred to above, Do Not Honor It.

Which is one reason why only a "Remnant" will enter The Soon Coming Kingdom of HEaven

 

[Meriweather]

A works-based theology insists that we have to follow Christ's commands out of fear, out of a desire to make ourselves worthy of salvation, thinking that we need to do something to complete salvation, that it's missing something that we have to provide.

I have never heard of "works based theology", and I doubt there is any such thing. My post was addressing purification/purgatory which has nothing to do with "works based" anything.

 

[Hawkins]

That same claim as "there's no salvation outside of Judaism".

 

[hadit]

I have never heard of "works based theology", and I doubt there is any such thing. My post was addressing purification/purgatory which has nothing to do with "works based" anything.

A theology that claims you have to or even can do works to add something to Christ's sacrifice is a works-based theology. Purification/purgatory does exactly that because it says in essence that Christ's sacrifice is not enough, that you have to either suffer after death or do works to attain a state acceptable to God.

 

[ding]

A theology that claims you have to or even can do works to add something to Christ's sacrifice is a works-based theology. Purification/purgatory does exactly that because it says in essence that Christ's sacrifice is not enough, that you have to either suffer after death or do works to attain a state acceptable to God.

Why do you keep mistaking producing good fruit - which is a sign of God's good grace - with doing good works to get God's good grace?

 

[hadit]

Why do you keep mistaking producing good fruit - which is a sign of God's good grace - with doing good works to get God's good grace?

I make the distinction when I see people claiming works will purify them or have to be added to Christ's sacrifice to complete salvation, etc. Have you not read where I explicitly went over why we do works and discipline ourselves? I thought I was quite clear. We CAN'T get God's good grace through works, we do them because we love Him intensely and know they please Him.

 

[onefour1]

We are not saved by our works, but works are required before Jesus will save us with his grace.

Matthew 7:21
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Good works are taught all through the New Testament. Here is an example of some of them:


2 Corinthians 9:8
And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

Titus 3:8
This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

1 Corinthians 15:58
Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye steadfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

1 Timothy 5:10
Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints’ feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.

Titus 2:7
In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,

1 Timothy 6:18
That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;

2 Timothy 3:17
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Titus 3:14
And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

Hebrews 13:21
Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Hebrews 10:24
And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Romans 13:3
For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

1 Timothy 2:10
But (which becometh women professing godliness ) with good works.

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Galatians 4:18
But it is good to be zealously affected always in a good thing, and not only when I am present with you.

John 10:32
Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

1 Peter 2:12
Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Colossians 1:10
That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

Mark 14:7
For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always.

2 Timothy 2:21
If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master’s use, and prepared unto every good work.

Matthew 12:35
A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.