The West will have to make peace with Russia

[Mac-7]

Support for Ukraine has become a divisive political issue in the United States, as it seems almost anything important will – and so many people are emotional about it. But a sober analysis suggests Ukraine may soon have to seek a deal with Russia.
The West erred disastrously in extending delusions of NATO membership to a country whose borders reach within a few hundred miles of Moscow, and that Russia – not just Putin – was left with little choice but to draw a line in the steppe.
Moreover, Russia is unlikely to lose because it has a massive numbers advantage and a determined leadership – backed up by a significant swath of public opinion – which doesn't mind sacrificing as much treasure and as many lives as it takes to subdue Ukraine. Critically, this narrative says, Russia's shocking violation of the longstanding taboo on nuclear threats may not be a bluff.

Isnt it true that ukraine surrendered nuclear weapons left behind by the fallen soviet union in exchange for a security guarantee from the West?

 

[kyzr]

Isnt it true that ukraine surrendered nuclear weapons left behind by the fallen soviet union in exchange for a security guarantee from the West?

The "Budapest Memorandum"

Budapest Memorandum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Budapest Memorandum and U.S. Obligations | Brookings

On the twentieth anniversary of the signing of the Budapest Memorandum, Steven Pifer, one of the negotiators of that document, writes that it is time for the Unites States to make good on the security assurances it made to Ukraine. Doing so could prevent future nuclear proliferation.

www.brookings.edu

 

[Sunni Man]

NATO should just admit Ukraine. Then that ends the war.

According to the NATO charter.
No country can become a member while engaged in a war.
Also, there must be a unanimous "Yes" vote by current members to accept a new member.
Which ain't gonna happen with Ukraine.

 

[kyzr]

According to the NATO charter.
No country can become a member whole engaged in a war.
Also, there must be a unanimous "Yes" vote by current members to accept a new member.
Which ain't gonna happen with Ukraine.

The war needs to end. NATO membership has to be part of the peace plan. Russia proved it can't be trusted.

 

[Sunni Man]

The war needs to end. NATO membership has to be part of the peace plan. Russia proved it can't be trusted.

Russia will Never accept Ukraine becoming a member of NATO

 

[martybegan]

So what alternative peace plans are there??? (I added that Ukraine is admitted to NATO)

That's the question asked every time people talk about "peace"

Peace isn't the absence of conflict, it's the resolution of conflict. Until one side or the other gives up on it's territorial demands, all we would get is an armistice of indeterminate time.

 

[Woodznutz]

If NATO holds no cards, why is Putin's 3-day war still stalemated 3-years later?

NATO should just admit Ukraine. Then that ends the war.

Or starts WW3.

 

[Aldo Raine]

Or it would escalate it to the Third World War.

Would NATO try to take back the Donbas and the Crimea from Russian forces?

Very good question, and probably why NATO has not admitted Ukraine at this time!
MAGA

 

[tyroneweaver]

Support for Ukraine has become a divisive political issue in the United States, as it seems almost anything important will – and so many peoRple are emotional about it. But a sober analysis suggests Ukraine may soon have to seek a deal with Russia.
The West erred disastrously in extending delusions of NATO membership to a country whose borders reach within a few hundred miles of Moscow, and that Russia – not just Putin – was left with little choice but to draw a line in the steppe.
Moreover, Russia is unlikely to lose because it has a massive numbers advantage and a determined leadership – backed up by a significant swath of public opinion – which doesn't mind sacrificing as much treasure and as many lives as it takes to subdue Ukraine. Critically, this narrative says, Russia's shocking violation of the longstanding taboo on nuclear threats may not be a bluff.

Remember when that Romney guy said to obama that russia was our biggest problem and he was laughed out of DC

 

[tyroneweaver]

1. Okay Ivan, stop with the bullshit.
2. Putin's war was supposed to last 3-days. Here we are stalemated 3-years later.
3. Putin's war is NOT popular in Russia, men are fleeing to avoid being drafted, so Putin is drafting prisoners.
4. Ukraine will be admitted to NATO. No one trusts Putin anymore.
5. Russia's tiny economy is failing, its not built to support a long expensive war, Russia cannot match NATO in weaponry.
6. Nuclear sword rattling? Moscow would be the 2nd city destroyed.

ya and biden sanctioned putin 10 pct

 

[martybegan]

LOL....So you want to deny the MIC of their grift? Politicians depend on the PAC donations the MIC provides.

Where exactly do you think the billions of aid are going to? For the most part it's not even leaving the country.

I want them to make sure we have our own stockpiles availible.

If they get to make some $$ beating up the Russkies AND it doesn't impact our stuff, I don't have an issue.

 

[kyzr]

Russia will Never accept Ukraine becoming a member of NATO

The Budapest Memorandum already put Ukraine under the protection of NATO, just w/o formal membership.

 

[martybegan]

Very good question, and probably why NATO has not admitted Ukraine at this time!
MAGA

TDS noted.

It's a real question that is being abused by Dems who think anyone who votes for Trump supports Russia, as opposed to us not wanting to trigger world war fucking three over this.

 

[rightwinger]

What is the path forward for Ukraine to get both the Donbas back and the Crimea?

Because that is what they want.

They can’t force them out militarily.
What they can do is continue to kill Russians, deplete Russian military resources, cripple the Russian economy and turn the military and home front against Putin

 

[CrazyTrader55]

The entire thing is a debacle. Both sides are run by war criminals and corruption rules the game. NATO is an outdated relic - Europe isn't our problem - we should put our efforts into securing our horrible southern border instead.

 

[Independent thinker]

Support for Ukraine has become a divisive political issue in the United States, as it seems almost anything important will – and so many people are emotional about it. But a sober analysis suggests Ukraine may soon have to seek a deal with Russia.
The West erred disastrously in extending delusions of NATO membership to a country whose borders reach within a few hundred miles of Moscow, and that Russia – not just Putin – was left with little choice but to draw a line in the steppe.
Moreover, Russia is unlikely to lose because it has a massive numbers advantage and a determined leadership – backed up by a significant swath of public opinion – which doesn't mind sacrificing as much treasure and as many lives as it takes to subdue Ukraine. Critically, this narrative says, Russia's shocking violation of the longstanding taboo on nuclear threats may not be a bluff.

So, you think if we make peace with Russia, Ukraine will be the end of their aggression?

 

[rightwinger]

Or it would escalate it to the Third World War.

Would NATO try to take back the Donbas and the Crimea from Russian forces?

That is why NATO has not become directly involved and is allowing Ukraine to do the fighting.

The US spent 20 years in Afghanistan and Iraq half way around the world without impacting our economy. Russia has no such economy.

WWI allowed the Russian Revolution
Soviet occupation of Afghanistan led to its collapse

This was will yield the same result

 

[martybegan]

They can’t force them out militarily.
What they can do is continue to kill Russians, deplete Russian military resources, cripple the Russian economy and turn the military and home front against Putin

That's a bad Strategy to use against the Russians. The French failed at it, and the Germans failed twice. They needed to use Lenin to get Russia out of the war.

You forget how many Russians died in WWII.

 

[martybegan]

That is why NATO has not become directly involved and is allowing Ukraine to do the fighting.

The US spent 20 years in Afghanistan and Iraq half way around the world without impacting our economy. Russia has no such economy.

WWI allowed the Russian Revolution
Soviet occupation of Afghanistan led to its collapse

This was will yield the same result

And that's why right now Ukraine is losing the war.

We weren't trying to occupy or defeat, we were trying to rebuild and hold. Two different things.

Germany helped the revolution by sending Lenin and money for the Bolsheviks.

Afghanistan didn't lead to the Soviet Collapse, the system constantly lying to itself led to the collapse.

 

[rightwinger]

And that's why right now Ukraine is losing the war.

We weren't trying to occupy or defeat, we were trying to rebuild and hold. Two different things.

Germany helped the revolution by sending Lenin and money for the Bolsheviks.

Afghanistan didn't lead to the Soviet Collapse, the system constantly lying to itself led to the collapse.

The Russian economy cannot sustain an indefinite occupation of captured territory.
The idea that “they will treat us as liberators” is not going to happen and Russia will occupy hostile territory.
An unending stalemate will work against Russia