The West will have to make peace with Russia

[martybegan]

The Russian economy cannot sustain an indefinite occupation of captured territory.
The idea that “they will treat us as liberators” is not going to happen and Russia will occupy hostile territory.
An unending stalemate will work against Russia

They seem to be doing just fine right now.
Most of the territory they are occupying has a significant Russian population, If they press on to Ukrainian ethnic areas they would have that problem.

Right now they occupy most of the land they want.

Unless the west is willing to put boots on the ground, I don't see this ending well for Ukraine.

 

[rightwinger]

That's a bad Strategy to use against the Russians. The French failed at it, and the Germans failed twice. They needed to use Lenin to get Russia out of the war.

You forget how many Russians died in WWII.

In WWII, Russia was facing an invading force and was willing to fight to the death to save their country.
That is the motivation of Ukraine today.

In Ukraine, they are the invading another nation and are running up massive casualties and their military is eating up the economy.

This could result in two outcomes
The people revolt
The military revolts

 

[martybegan]

In WWII, Russia was facing an invading force and was willing to fight to the death to save their country.
That is the motivation of Ukraine today.

In Ukraine, they are the invading another nation and are running up massive casualties and their military is eating up the economy.

This could result in two outcomes
The people revolt
The military revolts

That was the case when they were defending their own territory, once they crossed the 1941 border, it was about vengeance. Here you have people pining for the old "Russian Empire", and that is a motivating factor as well.

To me that would have happened already.

 

[rightwinger]

That was the case when they were defending their own territory, once they crossed the 1941 border, it was about vengeance. Here you have people pining for the old "Russian Empire", and that is a motivating factor as well.

To me that would have happened already.

I think the Russian Empire is a fantasy of Putin not the Russian people.
I doubt they are willing to sustain hundreds of thousands of casualties to support Putin’s goals

 

[Dragonlady]

Support for Ukraine has become a divisive political issue in the United States, as it seems almost anything important will – and so many people are emotional about it. But a sober analysis suggests Ukraine may soon have to seek a deal with Russia.
The West erred disastrously in extending delusions of NATO membership to a country whose borders reach within a few hundred miles of Moscow, and that Russia – not just Putin – was left with little choice but to draw a line in the steppe.
Moreover, Russia is unlikely to lose because it has a massive numbers advantage and a determined leadership – backed up by a significant swath of public opinion – which doesn't mind sacrificing as much treasure and as many lives as it takes to subdue Ukraine. Critically, this narrative says, Russia's shocking violation of the longstanding taboo on nuclear threats may not be a bluff.

Russia is a failed nation in decline. Putin invaded the Ukraine to distract Russians from how bad conditions have gotten for most people in the nation.

When Putin took over the government in 2000, the population of Russia was 146 million people. Today there are only 143 million people in Russia and the population is rapidly declining, is anyone who can leave the country, is fleeing.

The population of Russia is aging and declining. A million young men left to avoid military service in the Ukraine.

During the same timeframe, the population of the USA increased from 282 million, to 341 million - more than a 25% increase.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Russia will have to make a deal with West or disappear.

 

[martybegan]

I think the Russian Empire is a fantasy of Putin not the Russian people.
I doubt they are willing to sustain hundreds of thousands of casualties to support Putin’s goals

Plenty of the older Russians want it back, even if not the Soviet form.

They already have. You are just another person underestimating the Russian ability to absorb losses.

Please Remember I wish Ukraine would win this and get their 2014 borders back, but I am too much a student of history to try to gloss over the situation to get the outcome I want.

 

[Sunni Man]

Remember when that Romney guy said to obama that russia was our biggest problem and he was laughed out of DC

Russia only became a problem when our government decided to make it a problem.

 

[Sunni Man]

Russia will have to make a deal with West or disappear.

Dream on. ...

 

[g5000]

Putin sent a xmas card to Ukraine to join NATO.

And to Finland and Sweden.

 

[g5000]

Russia will talk if and when they choose .
NATO hold no cards

Actually, they hold two more cards. Finland and Sweden, right on Pooty's doorstep.

 

[g5000]

To me Russia is in the wrong here. Crimea was a land grab, Donbas was a land Grab.

My issue is I don't want WWIII over this, nor do I want us to deplete our reserves of munitions or spares of equipment over this.

It's okay. We need how to make more.

 

[martybegan]

It's okay. We need how to make more.

How fast though? Right now production of tanks and munitions are incredibly slow.

 

[sartre play]

TRULY sad that so many have died over the power hungry Putin desire for strategist land grabs.

 

[Rogue AI]

The Russian economy cannot sustain an indefinite occupation of captured territory.
The idea that “they will treat us as liberators” is not going to happen and Russia will occupy hostile territory.
An unending stalemate will work against Russia

What do you base these fantasies on?

 

[rightwinger]

What is Putin’s only path to victory?

Stand pat and wait for the outcome of the 2024 election

A Trump victory would lead to his 24 hour solution where he demands Ukraine surrender captured territory and cease fighting or face a complete loss of U.S. military aid

 

[g5000]

Putin could care less about making amends with the western nations.
The Russian economy is stronger than ever.

That must be why they have a 16% interest rate.

I blame Biden!

Also this:

Russian rouble briefly returns to ‘laughing stock’ level that prompted emergency interest rate hikes last time​

​

Russia's ruble is now worth less than 1 cent.​

​

Nice try, bread sniffer.

 

[g5000]

What do you base these fantasies on?

Intelligent people understand what Ronald Reagan understood. Russia is a paper tiger.

Reagan ramped up our defense spending knowing the USSR would implode trying to keep up.

The Soviets tried for over a decade to conquer Afghanistan and finally had to leave.

Putin has already lost far more men than the Soviets did during the entire Afghan war.

The combined economic might of the US and Europe is more than the dictator can handle.

All Putin has in his favor are the useful idiots in the MAGA camp who swallow his propaganda like it's Kool-Aid.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Dream on. ...

Russia and Turkey are the weak men of Eastern Europe and Western Asia.

 

[Sunni Man]

The Russian economy cannot sustain an indefinite occupation of captured territory.
The idea that “they will treat us as liberators” is not going to happen and Russia will occupy hostile territory.
An unending stalemate will work against Russia

Putin is only interested on annexing the eastern territory of Ukraine that has a large majority of ethnic Russian people.
Putin has no desire to occupy the western 2/3's of Ukraine where the vast majority are ethnic Ukrainian people.