CDZ The growing peril of war with China over Taiwan

[DudleySmith]

More like 'cabbage heads' than 'cooler heads'.

 

[DudleySmith]

China is not interested in waging war for Taiwan.
Why bother? They understand there are two realistic possibilities in the near term:

1. No willingness of any nation or bloc of nations to intervene.

2. China understands it has 4 years of freedom to do whatever it wants without even a word of protest from anywhere other than from Taiwan itself. Once-free nations are shrinking their armed forces; China is grown its own.

Remember, most countries in the world think of time only in terms of election cycles.
China thinks of time in terms of thousands of years.

I fully expect them to be flexing their muscles to an ever increasing degree over the next 4 years when it comes to Taiwan as well as utilizing the internet in varying ways towards that end.

They can also count on the current popularity of isolationism as a possibility. I think they're behind promoting that fantasy as well.

 

[Mac-7]

For example you said that I “support the destruction of human rights in Taiwan.” That is a slander, one which I am not even interested in wasting time to refute.

Do you support the destruction of human rights in Taiwan?

Maybe not.

Probably not

but are you indifferent to human rights in Taiwan?

most certainly

china means to dominate the world

and first Hong Kong and now Taiwan are just stepping stones to their ultimate goal

 

[Mac-7]

You support mainland control over Taiwan. That IS supporting the destruction of human rights -- incontrovertibly so.

Exactly

 

[Coyote]

Just a reminder folks - this thread has had two mod interventions. CDZ is for respectful, on topic conversation. No flaming, no put downs, no trolling, and just to be clear - a hinting put-down is still a put down. CDZ's description is "consider this an exercise in civil debate". It isn't everyone's cup of tea but we have other forums where you can bash a bit more freely.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

For example you said that I “support the destruction of human rights in Taiwan.” That is a slander, one which I am not even interested in wasting time to refute.

Do you support the destruction of human rights in Taiwan?

Maybe not.

Probably not

but are you indifferent to human rights in Taiwan?

most certainly

china means to dominate the world

and first Hong Kong and now Taiwan are just stepping stones to their ultimate goal

When people lay the blame for the destruction of human rights in Hong Kong on the people of Hong Kong, it would be logical to assume they would also lay the blame on The Taiwanese people when the Communists crush them.

 

[Mac-7]

When people lay the blame for the destruction of human rights in Hong Kong on the people of Hong Kong, it would be logical to assume they would also lay the blame on The Taiwanese people when the Communists crush them.

china apologists do not put all the blame for chinese aggression on Taiwan

They blame America also for supporting human rights wherever the shadow of CCP tyranny falls

 

[Coyote]

When people lay the blame for the destruction of human rights in Hong Kong on the people of Hong Kong, it would be logical to assume they would also lay the blame on The Taiwanese people when the Communists crush them.

china apologists do not put all the blame for chinese aggression on Taiwan

They blame America also for supporting human rights wherever the shadow of CCP tyranny falls

America has a patchy record of supporting human rights. Depends on who is being brutal and how convenient they are to our national interests. Take our relative silence on Egypt for example, or our reluctance to do much about the Uighurs in China.

 

[Mac-7]

When people lay the blame for the destruction of human rights in Hong Kong on the people of Hong Kong, it would be logical to assume they would also lay the blame on The Taiwanese people when the Communists crush them.

china apologists do not put all the blame for chinese aggression on Taiwan

They blame America also for supporting human rights wherever the shadow of CCP tyranny falls

America has a patchy record of supporting human rights. Depends on who is being brutal and how convenient they are to our national interests. Take our relative silence on Egypt for example, or our reluctance to do much about the Uighurs in China.

Many china apologists are loathe to even admit that china is a major threat to human rights

if china crushes Taiwan while biden drools on his desk in the oval office they have already signaled that its the Taiwanese people’s fault for wanting freedom

 

[Coyote]

When people lay the blame for the destruction of human rights in Hong Kong on the people of Hong Kong, it would be logical to assume they would also lay the blame on The Taiwanese people when the Communists crush them.

china apologists do not put all the blame for chinese aggression on Taiwan

They blame America also for supporting human rights wherever the shadow of CCP tyranny falls

America has a patchy record of supporting human rights. Depends on who is being brutal and how convenient they are to our national interests. Take our relative silence on Egypt for example, or our reluctance to do much about the Uighurs in China.

Many china apologists are loathe to even admit that china is a major threat to human rights

if china crushes Taiwan while biden drools on his desk in the oval office they have already signaled that its the Taiwanese people’s fault for wanting freedom

China crushed Hong Kong while Trump drooled on his desk in the Oval Office. Not a very good track record.

 

[Mac-7]

China crushed Hong Kong while Trump drooled on his desk in the Oval Office. Not a very good track record.

I see them as different situations

Hong Kong is chinese territory.

what china did was break a promise to respect the democratic process for 50 years after return from the UK

they are a couple of decades premature opening the concentration camps for the freedom loving citizens of that island

no one expects military action no matter how brutal and inhuman the CCP is

but its a different story for Taiwan

 

[MarathonMike]

Accordingly, you should change your ID as you do The Father of the American Revolution a great dis-service.

He would be sick at your embrace of oppression of people as I am.

I agree. I don't understand why this person uses the name of a great American patriot and consistently sides with China and anti-American positions in general. It is beyond annoying.

 

[Quasar44]

The Chinese have a right to Taiwan
If you don’t like it , then go fight China and die

 

[Quasar44]

You awaken the dragon and you will find the US navy at the bottom of the ocean

 

[Quasar44]

I am drinking too much Rum
So excuses me

 

[Mac-7]

The Chinese have a right to Taiwan

The chinese have Taiwan already

they just are not toadies of the CCP, but rather freedom loving chinese who respect human rights and hate the communists

 

[Correll]

When people lay the blame for the destruction of human rights in Hong Kong on the people of Hong Kong, it would be logical to assume they would also lay the blame on The Taiwanese people when the Communists crush them.

china apologists do not put all the blame for chinese aggression on Taiwan

They blame America also for supporting human rights wherever the shadow of CCP tyranny falls

America has a patchy record of supporting human rights. Depends on who is being brutal and how convenient they are to our national interests. Take our relative silence on Egypt for example, or our reluctance to do much about the Uighurs in China.

Many china apologists are loathe to even admit that china is a major threat to human rights

if china crushes Taiwan while biden drools on his desk in the oval office they have already signaled that its the Taiwanese people’s fault for wanting freedom

China crushed Hong Kong while Trump drooled on his desk in the Oval Office. Not a very good track record.

My point in this thread has been to draw attention to the differences in standards applied to the Chinese and the Americans by liberals on this issue.


I don't want war with China. I would like to stop trading with them, to stop doing everything we can to grow their economy.


But that is another matter.

 

[Mac-7]

I don't want war with China. I would like to stop trading with them, to stop doing everything we can to grow their economy

Not helping to grow the chinese economy, or educating chinese students in America, along with maintaining a strong US Navy is the surest way to avoid war with china

The CCP are rats that feed on weakness not strength

 

[Coyote]

When people lay the blame for the destruction of human rights in Hong Kong on the people of Hong Kong, it would be logical to assume they would also lay the blame on The Taiwanese people when the Communists crush them.

china apologists do not put all the blame for chinese aggression on Taiwan

They blame America also for supporting human rights wherever the shadow of CCP tyranny falls

America has a patchy record of supporting human rights. Depends on who is being brutal and how convenient they are to our national interests. Take our relative silence on Egypt for example, or our reluctance to do much about the Uighurs in China.

Many china apologists are loathe to even admit that china is a major threat to human rights

if china crushes Taiwan while biden drools on his desk in the oval office they have already signaled that its the Taiwanese people’s fault for wanting freedom

China crushed Hong Kong while Trump drooled on his desk in the Oval Office. Not a very good track record.

My point in this thread has been to draw attention to the differences in standards applied to the Chinese and the Americans by liberals on this issue.


I don't want war with China. I would like to stop trading with them, to stop doing everything we can to grow their economy.


But that is another matter.

Problem is, it's not just "American liberals" who apply different standards - it's American conservatives as well - this has been through multiple regimes. The fact that China is a huge economy that the US wants into, drives a lot of policy.

 

[Mac-7]

The fact that China is a huge economy that the US wants into, drives a lot of policy.

We export every little to china

the idea that we ever will is an illusion