The "Art of the Deal".... Ukraine... when they give Putin everything he wants before they've even started

[Zavulon]

You ungrateful little shit. You profited off You ungrateful little shit. You profited off of those wars you made billions off those wars and then you came in and cleaned up the mess you left.

And then you profited again and made billions more rebuilding Europe after you let the Nazis destroy it.

Do I understand you correctly? It were Europeans who destroyed Europe during WW2, right? It were Americans who rebuilt the Europe, right? It were Americans who protected Western Europe for decades, right?
And now you dare to say, that Europe owes nothing? And who is ungrateful little shit now, lady?

Added to which all of NATO came to your aid after 9/11 in Iraq and Afghanistan. For which we got nothing in return.

Really nothing? How many 911-style terracts did Europe suffer when mostly American soldiers have been fighting against Islamic terrorism?

 

[Zavulon]

But Trump is getting involved in all the wrong places and for all the wrong reasons.

I believe Americans can decide what places and what reasons are good and what are bad by themselves.

 

[TimFitz]

It's called lowering expectations, and it is much needed when we have people with no skin in the game making pronouncements like "The only way out is for Russia to leave Ukraine completely."

Russia is currently occupying 20% of Ukraine. Therefore acknowledging that the border must be redrawn to achieve peace isn't "giving" Russia anything.

But, heck! Maybe Ukraine really can win back all of its territory and also secure its border so strongly that there will never be another Ruskie invation.

If you have a plan for them to do that, I'm all ears. If Zelensky has such a plan, this might be a good time to activate it.

Just out of curiosity, do you think Ukraine should join NATO before or after Russia leaves its territory?

]
it’s called quitting, and running away.

Your beloved fuhrer is a sniveling weak coward.

His behavior last week was a dramatic demonstration.

Give the Russians what they want and slink away from being the leader of the free world.

That’s the message from your fuhrer and his stooges.

Appease the tyrant, and maybe the problem will go away.

Do the Neville Chamberlain. That’s what Trump is doing.

No American President in our history has been anywhere close to being this shameful and weak.

And you’re cheering for it.

Because it worked so well in 1938.

 

[Nostra]

You ungrateful little shit. You profited off You ungrateful little shit. You profited off of those wars you made billions off those wars and then you came in and cleaned up the mess you left.

And then you profited again and made billions more rebuilding Europe after you let the Nazis destroy it.

Added to which all of NATO came to your aid after 9/11 in Iraq and Afghanistan. For which we got nothing in return.

You ungrateful little shit. You profited off of those wars you made billions off those wars and then you came in and cleaned up the mess you left.

And then you profited again and made billions more rebuilding Europe after you let the Nazis destroy it.

Added to which all of NATO came to your aid after 9/11 in Iraq and Afghanistan. For which we got nothing in return.

Nobody owes you anything you selfish prick.

Dragonbreath us unhinged early today.

What a loon.

 

[Nostra]

But Trump is getting involved in all the wrong places and for all the wrong reasons.

What places, and what reasons. Be specific.

 

[Zavulon]

]
it’s called quitting, and running away.

Your beloved fuhrer is a sniveling weak coward.

His behavior last week was a dramatic demonstration.

Give the Russians what they want and slink away from being the leader of the free world.

Do the Neville Chamberlain. That’s what Trump is doing.

No American President in our history has been anywhere close to being this shameful and weak.

And you’re cheering for it.

Stupid and toxic manipulations. If Europeans are sure that Russians won't gone nuclear, they are free to fight against Russians themselves and "decolonise" them by themselves. But they are not. Americans can't be more Europeans than Europeans themselves.

 

[Dragonlady]

I believe Americans can decide what places and what reasons are good and what are bad by themselves.

What’s the polling on taking over GAZA? 70% oppose it.

What’s the polling on taking over Canada, the Panama Canal, and Greenland?

What’s the polling on letting Putin have the Ukraine?

Trump doesn’t run on any of these things in the American people don’t want them.

 

[Dragonlady]

Stupid and toxic manipulations. If Europeans are sure that Russians won't gone nuclear, they are free to fight against Russians themselves and "decolonise" them by themselves. But they are not. Americans can't be more Europeans than Europeans themselves.

You signed an agreement. When you were in trouble, NATO honoured it and came to YOUR defense. Time for you to do the same.

Canada was in Afghanistan for more than 10 years. The British were still there when you pulled out.

If you’re no longer prepared to honour your agreements, don’t expect people to sign them with you.

 

[Seymour Flops]

]
it’s called quitting, and running away.

Your beloved fuhrer is a sniveling weak coward.

His behavior last week was a dramatic demonstration.

Give the Russians what they want and slink away from being the leader of the free world.

That’s the message from your fuhrer and his stooges.

Appease the tyrant, and maybe the problem will go away.

Do the Neville Chamberlain. That’s what Trump is doing.

No American President in our history has been anywhere close to being this shameful and weak.

And you’re cheering for it.

Because it worked so well in 1938.

You're an angry little man, TimFitz.

 

[Zavulon]

You signed an agreement. When you were in trouble, NATO, honoured it and came to YOUR defense. Time for you to do the same.

If you’re no longer prepared to honour your agreements, don’t expect people to sign them with you.

If you want to be well-protected, you should do what was told you to do. If you are stupid and reckless (like threatening to "decolonise" a nuclear superpower) there is no power on the Earth to save you. NATO defence is for NATO-approved actions. Hundreds of millions of NATO civilians shouldn't be hostages of the few reckless imbeciles.
If, say, British government declared war to Russia - the best strategy for the USA might be "to overthrone British government and occupy the UK", and not "join their war and lost millions of American civilians".

 

[TimFitz]

Do I understand you correctly? It were Europeans who destroyed Europe during WW2, right? It were Americans who rebuilt the Europe, right? It were Americans who protected Western Europe for decades, right?
And now you dare to say, that Europe owes nothing? And who is ungrateful little shit now, lady?

“Really nothing? How many 911-style terracts did Europe suffer when mostly American soldiers have been fighting against Islamic terrorism?”

I don’t even know what that is supposed to mean,

Contrary to your made up notions, Europeans were on the front lines in the war on Islamic terrorism.

Terror attacks in Europe go all the way back to the 1972 Olympics. Nothing like it happened in the US until thirty years later.

Americans ignored it, until it hit here.

“amost ly American soldiers fighting against Islamic terrorism.

Not true.

After 9/11, NATO quickly came to our side and provided half of the resources needed for the invasion of Afghanistan.

But the Bush Administration was not interested in Bin Laden, and forgot Afghanistan, letting him get away and escape to hide in the open in Pakistan.

Cheney was more interested in scaring gullible Americans into starting a war in Iraq. CTerrorism was the sales pitch, oil was the objective.

Meanwhile the war on terror became a slogan, and Americans left most of the fighting in Afghanistan to NATO, until after Bush was gone.

 

[TimFitz]

You're an angry little man, TimFitz.

You don’t have a defense for your fuhrer’s weakness and cowardice.

 

[Seymour Flops]

You don’t have a defense for your fuhrer’s weakness and cowardice.

There is no "defense" for childish insults. That's the point of them. Grow up and grown ups will engage with you.

 

[TimFitz]

Stupid and toxic manipulations. If Europeans are sure that Russians won't gone nuclear, they are free to fight against Russians themselves and "decolonise" them by themselves. But they are not. Americans can't be more Europeans than Europeans themselves.

Like I said.

quitting and running away.

Appease the tyrant and maybe he will go away.

That’s Trump’s “plan.

You are cheering for Trump’s intention to disavow the Atlantic Charter and betray the legacy of Roosevelt and Churchill.

Retreat into parochial Ninteenth Century isolationism.

Make the United States irrelevant on the world stage.

I saw it coming.

Trump’s own lack of knowledge or understanding of government and world affairs has never been above fifth grade level. His cultists are similarly backward.

Trump was obviously afraid of Putin.

He started signaling his intention to kowtow to the Kremlin even before his first inauguration, and he kissed Putin’s ass every chance he got since then.

When I first posted my prediction that Trump was too stupid and too cowardly to assume the role of leader of the free world, I was roundly attacked by evert Trump supporter in sight.

Now, Trump has done it, cowared befor aputin and openly betrayed our allies.

And the very same people who condemned me for predicting Trump’s betrayal are now cheering for it.

 

[TimFitz]

There is no "defense" for childish insults. That's the point of them. Grow up and grown ups will engage with you.

Childish insults are generally all you have.

it’s not like you even bother to make an intelligent, fact based argument>

But, when you can’t defend betrayal and cowardice, but want to cheer for it none the less, you need a deflection.

 

[TimFitz]

What places, and what reasons. Be specific.

He bullied NATO, and sent his stooges to repeat the message.

Suck up to Putin.

Betray our allies. Bully Canada and Panama.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Childish insults are generally all you have.

it’s not like you even bother to make an intelligent, fact based argument>

But, when you can’t defend betrayal and cowardice, but want to cheer for it none the less, you need a deflection.

Alright, I'll give you one more chance. Answer with logic and not a TDS rant. Ain't nobody got time for that.

Calling the man who jumped up and gave a fist salute and said "keep fighting," after a sniper shot him in the ear, missing his brain only by the purest of luck, is absurd.

If Putin comes out of whatever deal is made with only the territories he already occupies, he gains nothing. If Dictator Zelensky gets to keep the rest of Ukraine, he gains nothing, but he avoid losing everything.

Neither Europe nor the U.S. has any interest in fighting Russia on behalf of the current regime in Ukraine.

Nobody should be interested in pumping money and weapons into that conflict except for the arms industry, and whoever is getting kickbacks in the form of campaign contributions from arms industry funded PACs.

If Trump can find a way to stop the killing, without Ukraine surrendering completely, he deserves a Nobel Peace Prize (again).

 

[Zavulon]

Like I said.

quitting and running away.

Appease the tyrant and maybe he will go away.

That’s Trump’s “plan.

You are cheering for Trump’s intention to disavow the Atlantic Charter and betray the legacy of Roosevelt and Churchill.

Retreat into parochial Ninteenth Century isolationism.

Make the United States irrelevant on the world stage.

I saw it coming.

Trump’s own lack of knowledge or understanding of government and world affairs has never been above fifth grade level. His cultists are similarly backward.

Trump was obviously afraid of Putin.

He started signaling his intention to kowtow to the Kremlin even before his first inauguration, and he kissed Putin’s ass every chance he got since then.

When I first posted my prediction that Trump was too stupid and too cowardly to assume the role of leader of the free world, I was roundly attacked by evert Trump supporter in sight.

Now, Trump has done it, cowared befor aputin and openly betrayed our allies.

And the very same people who condemned me for predicting Trump’s betrayal are now cheering for it.

There is a logic of intentions, and there is a logic of circumstances. And logic of circumstances is always stronger.

The logic of circumstances, the logic of coexistence of the nuclear superpowers means that one side should not demand "decolonisation" of other side.

The logic of alliances means that the junior partner should not sign checks that the senior partner cannot pay.

The logic of civil peace (including civil peace in Ukraine and Baltic states) means that a government shouldn't discriminate, abuse and kill people for their culture, language or religion.

Being "leader of free world" doesn't mean that America should commit mass murder-suicide without any practical reason, just to satisfy hysterical demands of some freaking perverts, who are too stupid and selfish to live in peace with their neighbours and too weak and coward to fight the war by themselves. There is the term for such destructive behaviour, and the term is "strategic parasitism". If Europe wants survive next ten years without a catastrophe they need either melt some of their fat in muscles either do what America said them to do.

 

[Clipper]

But Trump is getting involved in all the wrong places and for all the wrong reasons.

The orange shitshow ringleader doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground regarding foreign policy issues other then how to line his greedy pockets as a means to an end.

He's nothing but a corrupt gangster who belongs where Gotti ended up.

 

[Contumacious]

Doesn't matter. There are ways of dealing with this, and it's not b y invading.

Putin tried for 8 years - the CIA agent in charge of Ukraine Victoria Nuland , told Obama that she was certain that Russia would not invade.