Tax Cuts Steal Democracy

[Jomama]

you have learned 121 times now that Ireland is not a scientific experiment with one variable changing( Irish tax rate) and all others held constant by magic. Do you understand this?? A liberal will be 100% anti science -right??

Ed is right on here. Ireland is one date point over something like 20-30 years with no comparable data points. There is absolutely no way Ireland's economy can pose as a fact of proof.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Just getting around to this post. I agree with OP that tax cuts are often an erosion of national treasure.

so people keeping their hard earned money from govt is an erosion of national treasure?? what does that mean??

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

you have learned 121 times now that Ireland is not a scientific experiment with one variable changing( Irish tax rate) and all others held constant by magic. Do you understand this?? A liberal will be 100% anti science -right??

Ed is right on here. Ireland is one date point over something like 20-30 years with no comparable data points. There is absolutely no way Ireland's economy can pose as a fact of proof.

Well, it can prove that when you drop corporate taxes to 12% 1000's of corporations will move in from all over the world and boost your economy. It makes them move in not out.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

corrupt politicians and taxes are a non-event compared to the big stuff going on.

big stuff is China and India now in global capitalist economy with lower wages regulations and taxes. This is why our corporate tax should immediately dropped to 0%!!

 

[The Derp]

No that's not math

Yes, it is math. Revenues come from taxes. You cut taxes, you cut revenues. You raise taxes, you raise revenues. That's why every time Conservatives gain control, deficits explode and debt skyrockets. Every. Freaking. Time. The continued pushing of a failed policy, despite all evidence showing said policy is failed, doesn't mean the policy is valid, all it means is that you have too much of an ego to admit you are wrong.

Only two Presidents since 1980 have left office with a deficit lower than the one they inherited; Clinton and Obama...and both raised taxes.

Go all the way back to the start of this thread and look at those charts. They tell quite a story and that story is that tax cuts only spike household debt, hold down wages, and produce no economic gains whatsoever. And all your bullshit links from people paid to push this garbage on the rest of us for the benefit of a wealthy few don't change those factual results.

 

[The Derp]

The rest, OP blew it - to great a stretch to tie corrupt politicians and their bootlicking of the wealthy (always have been, always will be) into our 30 year wage dislocation. There are MASSIVE structural changes happening in the world economy and corrupt politicians and taxes are a non-event compared to the big stuff going on.

So we are to believe it's just a coincidence that the income gap growth just happened to coincide with tax cutting policies and loosening of campaign restrictions? I don't believe in coincidences.

 

[The Derp]

Well, it can prove that when you drop corporate taxes to 12% 1000's of corporations will move in from all over the world and boost your economy. It makes them move in not out.

What boost to Ireland's economy? Their unemployment rate is higher than most all Western (and some Eastern) European nations, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Israel, Japan, South Korea, and the United States.

 

[The Derp]

Ed is right on here. Ireland is one date point over something like 20-30 years with no comparable data points. There is absolutely no way Ireland's economy can pose as a fact of proof.

So if there is no data to make the argument that tax cuts didn't help Ireland's economy (or anyone else's), then the inverse is also true. Which means, why even enter Ireland into this debate if it's not something that can be used as a point of reference? Easy answer. Because the poster is desperate and flinging monkey poo.

 

[The Derp]

so people keeping their hard earned money from govt is an erosion of national treasure?? what does that mean??

Goalpost move alert!

The entire argument for tax cuts was that they would result in all this magical consumer spending that would lead to so many revenues, there would be no need to cut spending.

When that turned out to be a big, fat crock of shit, the goalposts were moved again, and the argument became that tax cuts needed time to work.

When that turned out to be a big, fat crock of shit, the goalposts were moved again, and the argument became that tax cuts work only when paired with spending cuts.

When that turned out to be a big, fat crock of shit, the goalposts were moved again, and the argument now is one of emotion and hysterics. Because apparently that's all there is left; emotion and hysterics. So it becomes a moral argument since the fiscal and economic arguments are not there to support it.

 

[The Derp]

Well, it can prove that when you drop corporate taxes to 12% 1000's of corporations will move in from all over the world and boost your economy. It makes them move in not out.

The drop in that tax rate started in 2006. Since that time, only about 130,000 jobs have been created in Ireland supposedly as a result of that policy. Which comes to about 12,000 jobs a year, 1,000 jobs a month. Obama created that many jobs in about 14 days in January, with a 35% corporate tax rate. BTW - Ireland's unemployment rate is about 2 points higher than ours, and higher than the majority of western democracies.

And how many businesses, precisely, have "moved" there since 2006? That number you leave out. "Thousands" could mean 1,001, which amounts to less than 100 businesses a year. Obama created that many businesses in one day just this past January.

 

[The Derp]

big stuff is China and India now in global capitalist economy with lower wages regulations and taxes. This is why our corporate tax should immediately dropped to 0%!!

Russian troll bot has broken and can only repeat posts.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

big stuff is China and India now in global capitalist economy with lower wages regulations and taxes. This is why our corporate tax should immediately dropped to 0%!!

Russian troll bot has broken and can only repeat posts.

Translation :As typical liberal I lack the IQ to respond substantively so will change the subject to gibberish

 

[The Derp]

Translation :As typical liberal I lack the IQ to respond substantively so will change the subject to gibberish

You ran a translation through a Google translator.

 

[hadit]

so, many private competing interests are far better than the interest of one monopoly govt

How so? Private interests care only about themselves, not the citizenry they are supposed to be supporting.

which our founders described as the source of evil in human history,

No they didn't.

not charter schools( for God's sake!!) that replace the worst schools in the civilized world.

Charter schools perform no better or worse than Public Schools. What they do, though, is take funding away from Public Schools, which results in Public School failures, which you people use as an excuse to fund charter schools even more, which continues the death spiral. But that's the Conservative goal; to do away with Public Education because it doesn't credit Jesus with riding dinosaurs 6,000 years ago.

Evidence to back up your claims?

 

[hadit]

insane and liberal of course since the top 1% paying 35% of govt spending, not 1% , under Bush is the opposite of giving away the store.

First of all, if you are complaining about the tax burden of the 1% without being a part of the 1% you are attacking your own best interests. You think the 1% gives a damn how high your taxes are? So why do you care how high theirs are? Furthermore, the tax burden was more equitable prior to the Reagan trickle-down. It only is where it is today because you cut taxes! So you are basically supporting policies that perpetuate the thing you are complaining about. It's basically masturbation, for lack of a better term.

if liberals had even a low IQ they would see that ripping off productive people to make others lazy makes things worse not better. This is how the USSR and Red China slowly starved 120million to death??

Not sure how you're reaching that conclusion. In order to receive most "welfare" benefits, you have to be employed, in job training, or in school. That's thanks to the 1996 welfare reform Conservatives passed. Welfare was already reformed according to your tastes. If you're still screeching about welfare today, then that means either a) the welfare reform Conservatives passed 20 years ago wasn't as great as they made it out to be or b) the screeching about welfare today is a bunch of BS.

So were we being BS'd then or are we being BS'd today?

Bubba was a conservative? Who knew?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

insane and liberal of course since the top 1% paying 35% of govt spending, not 1% , under Bush is the opposite of giving away the store.

First of all, if you are complaining about the tax burden of the 1% without being a part of the 1% you are attacking your own best interests. You think the 1% gives a damn how high your taxes are? So why do you care how high theirs are? Furthermore, the tax burden was more equitable prior to the Reagan trickle-down. It only is where it is today because you cut taxes! So you are basically supporting policies that perpetuate the thing you are complaining about. It's basically masturbation, for lack of a better term.

if liberals had even a low IQ they would see that ripping off productive people to make others lazy makes things worse not better. This is how the USSR and Red China slowly starved 120million to death??

Not sure how you're reaching that conclusion. In order to receive most "welfare" benefits, you have to be employed, in job training, or in school. That's thanks to the 1996 welfare reform Conservatives passed. Welfare was already reformed according to your tastes. If you're still screeching about welfare today, then that means either a) the welfare reform Conservatives passed 20 years ago wasn't as great as they made it out to be or b) the screeching about welfare today is a bunch of BS.

So were we being BS'd then or are we being BS'd today?

Bubba was a conservative? Who knew?

Bubba was Very liberal but Newt made him say "the era of big government is over" and made him say we will end welfare as we know it. Since then there has been much backsliding and welfare entitlements are growing and growing and our economy is declining and declining

 

[The Derp]

Evidence to back up your claims?

You want me to back up the claim that business cares only about itself and its profits? Ummm...have you ever worked for a business before?

 

[The Derp]

Bubba was a conservative? Who knew?

Clinton was a Neo-liberal. Conservatives and Neo-liberals have much in common when it comes to policy. Both are foolish.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Evidence to back up your claims?

You want me to back up the claim that business cares only about itself and its profits? Ummm...have you ever worked for a business before?

Actually a business cares about its customers most of all and spends millions and millions of dollars trying to please them, trying to figure out what they want and generally how to be helpful to those on whom they depend for livelihood. if one business did that and a competitor cared primarily about its profits guess which business would succeed and which would fail.Now you understand the most essential principle of capitalism and hopefully the Marxist principal about which you've been brainwashed appears as idiotic as it is. Does it?

 

[The Derp]

Since then there has been much backsliding

How so? It's become more difficult to get welfare benefits since the 1990's, not less. And which welfare entitlements are growing, according to you? Medicare? Well, duh, Boomers are retiring. SNAP? Well, duh, SNAP eligibility is determined by income (and half of all SNAP recipients are children) and wages have stagnated for most workers.