Russia-Ukraine Crisis Deescalating As NATO Countries Break From Bellicose US-UK Stance

[Doc7505]

Russia-Ukraine Crisis Deescalating As NATO Countries Break From Bellicose US-UK Stance​

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

25 Jan 2022 ~~
Deescalation appears to be accelerating over the Ukraine crisis given a number of rapid developments which have seen lead NATO countries break from the more bellicose and threatening tone of the United States and UK. After Germany's neutrality toward the Russia-Ukraine crisis became apparent, Sweden is the latest to follow its lead of forbidding arms transfers to Kiev, while Croatia is out with a firm statement saying it will recall all of its troops from NATO in the event of war.
This followed on the heels of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky announcing that circumstances in the region are now "under control" and that there's "no reason to panic" according to The Associated Press.
It appears the earlier hyped messages of an 'imminent Russian invasion' have backfired, as Ukraine officials have now turned to castigating the media for spreading a sense of overblown panic and doom among the population. Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov went so far as to say the threat of a Russian invasion "doesn't exist" despite there still being "risky scenarios". Other Ukraine defense officials have echoed this as well...

​

~Snip~

**********
​

~Snip~
The US previously said this demand was a "non-starter" - but given the rapid shift in atmosphere surrounding tensions, it'll be interesting to see if by week's end the US tune is very different.
For for time being, some level of military economic threats and counterthreats look to continue...

Commentary:
Germany, Austria and France want to sit this one out. They are too worried about their fuel and energy supplies coming from Russia.
We can all refer back to when our 46th president during January 2021 lifted sanctions on the Nord Stream 2 pipeline project.
That was the go-ahead sign for Putin the cherry on the pudding was Biden's disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan.
The dilemma now is how to ease out of the rhetoric from Biden's opposition to the takeover of the Ukraine, much of which is fait accompli. Biden's decisions in the handling of the Russia/Ukraine crisis will reflect directly on how China will soon react on Tiawan.
Please note yesterday's incident in the South China Sea and the flyovers of Tiawan... We're not really projecting the image of a competent, capable military power. Thanks to the administration directed by Joseph Robinette Biden.

 

[Donald H]

What Brought Biden to the Table? - Antiwar.com

No one knows whether the recent talks between the US and Russia will produce results. But they happened. And they have led to the promise of further - Ted Snider for Antiwar.com

original.antiwar.com

A view from the POV of what might have caused the possible de-escalation. Many different points are made but the author seems to keep coming back to the threat of a China/Russia alliance.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

The democrats want a war to distract from Joe Biden's disastrous presidency.

Not good news for the left.

And if NATO won't pull together when Putin strong arms Ukraine, what good are they?

 

[LA RAM FAN]

The democrats want a war to distract from Joe Biden's disastrous presidency.

Not good news for the left.

And if NATO won't pull together when Putin strong arms Ukraine, what good are they?

exactly fortunately the majority of the countries knows NATO is the same as the CIA,always trying to start wars with other countries so Russia has some strong allies by their side which is why NATO is wisely backing down at the moment.

 

[Donald H]

The democrats want a war to distract from Joe Biden's disastrous presidency.

Not good news for the left.

And if NATO won't pull together when Putin strong arms Ukraine, what good are they?

The key question you ask is, what good is Nato?
Nato is becoming less and less good at following America's lead to war. What else has it ever been good for from America's perspective?
How could Nato be any good when the most important thing that justifies Nato action is missing?

A Russian invasion!

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

The key question you ask is, what good is Nato?
Nato is becoming less and less good at following America's lead to war. What else has it ever been good for from America's perspective?
How could Nato be any good when the most important thing that justifies Nato action is missing?

A Russian invasion!

I don't see even a Russian invasion motivating NATO just like Russia's theft of Crimea did not spur them
to act.

 

[skye]

Do your job first idiot Turnip!

Take care of the border, you and all of your Rats Mafia!

 

[Donald H]

I don't see even a Russian invasion motivating NATO just like Russia's theft of Crimea did not spur them
to act.

Russia's hand was forced on the Crimea by the US under the guise of Nato.
Nato countries need to be cautious of a war with Russia. America may perhaps bank on that war not reaching the N. American continent. Good luck with that.

This isn't settled and over yet if we recall what started the trouble. America realizes that allowing the Nordstream pipeline will clinch Russia/Germany cooperation forever. If Russia is somehow coerced or forced to invade the Ukraine then Germany will withdraw from the deal. That's the unspoken threat.
Otherwise Germany is tied to cooperation with Russia and that then means that Europe is tied to cooperation too.

What do you think of my theory?

 

[Litwin]

Russia-Ukraine Crisis Deescalating As NATO Countries Break From Bellicose US-UK Stance​

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

25 Jan 2022 ~~
Deescalation appears to be accelerating over the Ukraine crisis given a number of rapid developments which have seen lead NATO countries break from the more bellicose and threatening tone of the United States and UK. After Germany's neutrality toward the Russia-Ukraine crisis became apparent, Sweden is the latest to follow its lead of forbidding arms transfers to Kiev, while Croatia is out with a firm statement saying it will recall all of its troops from NATO in the event of war.
This followed on the heels of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky announcing that circumstances in the region are now "under control" and that there's "no reason to panic" according to The Associated Press.
It appears the earlier hyped messages of an 'imminent Russian invasion' have backfired, as Ukraine officials have now turned to castigating the media for spreading a sense of overblown panic and doom among the population. Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov went so far as to say the threat of a Russian invasion "doesn't exist" despite there still being "risky scenarios". Other Ukraine defense officials have echoed this as well...

​

~Snip~

**********
​

~Snip~
The US previously said this demand was a "non-starter" - but given the rapid shift in atmosphere surrounding tensions, it'll be interesting to see if by week's end the US tune is very different.
For for time being, some level of military economic threats and counterthreats look to continue...

Commentary:
Germany, Austria and France want to sit this one out. They are too worried about their fuel and energy supplies coming from Russia.
We can all refer back to when our 46th president during January 2021 lifted sanctions on the Nord Stream 2 pipeline project.
That was the go-ahead sign for Putin the cherry on the pudding was Biden's disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan.
The dilemma now is how to ease out of the rhetoric from Biden's opposition to the takeover of the Ukraine, much of which is fait accompli. Biden's decisions in the handling of the Russia/Ukraine crisis will reflect directly on how China will soon react on Tiawan.
Please note yesterday's incident in the South China Sea and the flyovers of Tiawan... We're not really projecting the image of a competent, capable military power. Thanks to the administration directed by Joseph Robinette Biden.

Putin´s ruble goes straight into a toilet seat! 80,2 today I predict 100 r for one $ the very next week !Flush into a toilet seat entire Pootin´s ulus

Putin´s ruble goes straight into a toilet seat! 80,2 today I predict 100 for one $ the very next week ! How long it take for us to flush into a toilet seat entire Moscow ulus? https://www.voanews.com/a/russian-markets-plunge-as-war-fears-mount/6410403.html our main tools : military pressure...

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[Litwin]

Do your job first idiot Turnip!

Take care of the border, you and all of your Rats Mafia!



View attachment 592808

 

[Donald H]

View attachment 593030

Interesting! Can the forced manipulation of the USD/Ruble withstand the pressure on the USD inflation? Or will there be a violent rebound. It's a gamble on war/no war the way I see it.

Do the big money boys see a war as inevitable or is this just a move to promote a war?

I ask these question of you on a hunch that you may understand what that chart means?

I'll check my charts on the USD/world currencies for a clue. Can you do that too?

 

[bendog]

Russia's hand was forced on the Crimea by the US under the guise of Nato.
Nato countries need to be cautious of a war with Russia. America may perhaps bank on that war not reaching the N. American continent. Good luck with that.

This isn't settled and over yet if we recall what started the trouble. America realizes that allowing the Nordstream pipeline will clinch Russia/Germany cooperation forever. If Russia is somehow coerced or forced to invade the Ukraine then Germany will withdraw from the deal. That's the unspoken threat.
Otherwise Germany is tied to cooperation with Russia and that then means that Europe is tied to cooperation too.

What do you think of my theory?

I don't see how Russia was forced into invading Crimea, since they had a lease on the place. But I don't think Ukraine had historical claims to Crimea. The whole thing is confused because the Russian Empire invaded and occupied these places back to the 18th century at least.

Imo Putin would like Ukraine to be like Belarus, but the ethnic Ukrainians don't want any of that. Biden's actually right that there's not much we can do is Putin just wants to slice off a little more of Ukraine where ethnic Russians live and even join that to Crimea. But if Putin does that it will strengthen the calls from the eastern most Nato members to more fully arm Ukraine. And Ukraine would welcome that because the it would like to be economically tied to the EU, even if it can't join Nato.

I'd hate to see larger scale proxy war with Putin's paramilitary v. Ukraine. Civilians would suffer.

 

[Donald H]

I don't see how Russia was forced into invading Crimea, since they had a lease on the place. But I don't think Ukraine had historical claims to Crimea. The whole thing is confused because the Russian Empire invaded and occupied these places back to the 18th century at least.

Don't be silly. If Russia didn't act on Crimea then they would lose it to a hostile Ukraine.

Imo Putin would like Ukraine to be like Belarus, but the ethnic Ukrainians don't want any of that. Biden's actually right that there's not much we can do is Putin just wants to slice off a little more of Ukraine where ethnic Russians live and even join that to Crimea. But if Putin does that it will strengthen the calls from the eastern most Nato members to more fully arm Ukraine. And Ukraine would welcome that because the it would like to be economically tied to the EU, even if it can't join Nato.

I'd hate to see larger scale proxy war with Putin's paramilitary v. Ukraine. Civilians would suffer.

I hope to be able to read that and answer when I have time. Hopefully you'll remind me later.

 

[Doc7505]

I don't see how Russia was forced into invading Crimea, since they had a lease on the place. But I don't think Ukraine had historical claims to Crimea. The whole thing is confused because the Russian Empire invaded and occupied these places back to the 18th century at least.

Imo Putin would like Ukraine to be like Belarus, but the ethnic Ukrainians don't want any of that. Biden's actually right that there's not much we can do is Putin just wants to slice off a little more of Ukraine where ethnic Russians live and even join that to Crimea. But if Putin does that it will strengthen the calls from the eastern most Nato members to more fully arm Ukraine. And Ukraine would welcome that because the it would like to be economically tied to the EU, even if it can't join Nato.

I'd hate to see larger scale proxy war with Putin's paramilitary v. Ukraine. Civilians would suffer.

~~~~~~
Then there's another aspect and scenario that we have not discussed and must be considered. What if Xi Jinping and Putin joined together to coordinate invasions of Taiwan and the Ukraine simultaneously? How will Joey Xi Bai Dung react?
If both Russia attacked eastern Ukraine and China fought for Taiwan, Joey Xi Bai Dung would be faced with a no-win dilemma: go to war with China and Russia that we could not possibly win, or refuse to fight and stand helplessly by as both eastern Ukraine and Taiwan likely fall to their oppressors.

Fears Russia may invade Ukraine at same time as China attacks Taiwan to create 'nightmare' situation for US​

Fears Russia may invade Ukraine at same time as China attacks Taiwan to create 'nightmare' scenario for US

"Putin and Xi are doubtless fully aware of each other's actions."

www.newshub.co.nz

There are fears China and Russia could coordinate respective invasions of Taiwan and Ukraine, stretching the military resources of the United States and testing new President Joe Biden.
It comes as tensions mount in Crimea and Ukraine's eastern Donbas region - where Russia keeps deploying more troops - and around Taiwan in the South China Sea, where the US is already responding to an increased Chinese military presence.
The US has warned that China is probably accelerating its plans to capture Taiwan. The two have had separate governments for more than 70 years, but tensions have increased in recent years and China has become "more assertive in sovereignty disputes", AP reports.
~Snip~
On Monday (NZ time), US Secretary of State Antony Blinken said he had "real concerns about Russia's actions on the borders of Ukraine" and warned of repercussions in an interview with NBC's Meet the Press.
"President Biden's been very clear about this. If Russia acts recklessly, or aggressively, there will be costs, there will be consequences."
Meanwhile Blinken said China were guilty of "increasingly aggressive actions" and promised Taiwan would "have the ability to defend itself" should China attempt an invasion.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Earlier I wrote:

“Hopefully, in the not too distant future Germany and even the U.S. (and finally Ukraine) will realize the wisdom of Ukraine becoming a neutral pro-European country like Austria was during the Cold War, with everybody diplomatically dropping Ukraine’s now pointless claim to Crimea. It will require some brave major European politician or party to speak up and break the logjam.”

That logjam has not yet been cleanly broken, but today it is reported on the “Radio Free Europe” website:

“French officials have raised to reporters the possibility of the ‘Finlandization’ of Ukraine” — which of course presumes that Ukraine will not join any military alliance.

A further report going into more detail on tentative proposals Macron apparently raised in discussion with Putin is here:

Emmanuel Macron in Kiev to fix Ukraine crisis but UK questions tactics

Britain was said to be concerned last night about Emmanuel Macron's (pictured) 'private promises' to Vladimir Putin in a bid to secure a peace deal over Ukraine.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Brick Gold]

I just looked up what NATO is

The North Atlantic Treaty Organization or Atlantic Alliance (NATO) is an international political and military organization with the aim of guaranteeing the freedom and security of its members through political and military means.

So, if Ukraine joined NATO they would enter a strong alliance and protect their own freedom. This alliance was formed as a direct response to WW2 when the war ended.

If Russia can demand that another country not join a freedom alliance and that country obeys, isnt Russia essentially showing the world that they truly do control that country? This confuses me. Anyone care to explain what this is about?

Imagine the USA making similar demands of Canada. They tell em to kick rocks and bite a bullet.

 

[Brick Gold]

This might help to understand Russias interest in Ukraine

The red area is Russian language, 30% of Ukraine speaks Russian at home.

 

[Donald H]

Earlier I wrote:

“Hopefully, in the not too distant future Germany and even the U.S. (and finally Ukraine) will realize the wisdom of Ukraine becoming a neutral pro-European country like Austria was during the Cold War, with everybody diplomatically dropping Ukraine’s now pointless claim to Crimea. It will require some brave major European politician or party to speak up and break the logjam.”

That logjam has not yet been cleanly broken, but today it is reported on the “Radio Free Europe” website:

“French officials have raised to reporters the possibility of the ‘Finlandization’ of Ukraine” — which of course presumes that Ukraine will not join any military alliance.

A further report going into more detail on tentative proposals Macron apparently raised in discussion with Putin is here:

Emmanuel Macron in Kiev to fix Ukraine crisis but UK questions tactics

Britain was said to be concerned last night about Emmanuel Macron's (pictured) 'private promises' to Vladimir Putin in a bid to secure a peace deal over Ukraine.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The UK and the US don't want any solution. My theory is that the US wants to eliminate any super power competition from Russia, as it does with China. A lot of time was spent yesterday on making mockery of Russia and comparing it's economy to half of California. That provided a clue to how America is trying to downplay the agenda that is now highly suspected. Macron was also mentioned and mocked for meeting with Putin.

The audience is expected to believe that Russia/Putin is nothing except nuclear weapons. And yet still, Germany hesitates to join in the US attempts to destroy Russia further. The Nordstream2 is critical to US success.

Europe is starting to do what is good for itself, and that spells trouble for the US and it's tool of aggression, Nato.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Western policy towards Ukraine is evolving from the ridiculous to the positively surreal….

All that Ukraine’s search for NATO membership is doing, has done, and will continue to do is to create a terribly damaging and dangerous crisis with Russia without strengthening Ukrainian security or real Western commitment to Ukraine in the slightest. To drop this manifestly pointless pursuit would be good for Europe, the world, and above all Ukraine itself.

Why are we evacuating diplomats from Ukraine? - Responsible Statecraft

 

[Donald H]

Western policy towards Ukraine is evolving from the ridiculous to the positively surreal….

All that Ukraine’s search for NATO membership is doing, has done, and will continue to do is to create a terribly damaging and dangerous crisis with Russia without strengthening Ukrainian security or real Western commitment to Ukraine in the slightest. To drop this manifestly pointless pursuit would be good for Europe, the world, and above all Ukraine itself.

Why are we evacuating diplomats from Ukraine? - Responsible Statecraft

It's pretty obvious by now that Russia isn't going to start a war, so why indeed are diplomats being evaculated?