Red state Secession would see welfare dependent states collapse

[Tommy Tainant]

Yes, that's the usual explanation the Left comes up with, if blaming etherial current 'racism' becomes too obviously absurd.

Unprovable, untestable, without any concrete examples of how slavery 150 years ago makes the Black underclass into violent criminals today.

Very convenient. "Overnight" = over 150 years. "The Slaveowners Made Me Do It!"

The terrible reality is that this excuse undermines all efforts to pull the Black underclass into civilized society. It's actually an example of the sort of malign psychological influence it claims to be identifying.

Well you create a straw man.I also stated that there was a century of oppression after slavery ended.

You choose to ignore that comment.

Education in the US was segregated and racist. White schools enjoyed a huge disparity in funding over their black counterparts..

How are black folk supposed to progress when the system is racist ? Over a century of this is not easily overturned.

But yeah, black folks are violent criminals. LOL.

 

[justoffal]

American Divorce? More like America’s Brexit | Voices

Let’s talk about American Brexit

www.independent.co.uk

Marje has been sharing her vision on Hannity. She envisions a red state secession , Marjistan, that would break away from America.
The stats are quite illuminating.
# Counties that voted for President Joe Biden generate 70 percent of gross domestic product.
# Fourteen of the poorest 15 states voted Republican in 2020.

# All 12 richest states chose Biden.

# Only four red states have median household incomes in the top half of the 50 states.
# The nine red states that seceded in 1861 get, on average, 42 percent of their budgets from Washington, according to SmartAsset. Mostly that buys health care –

There are more stats in the article but the picture seems to be quite clear. These dependent states rail against govt spending whilst being the biggest recipients.

Its hilarious in a way but rather sad. I wonder if the exercise is worth it to just excorcise the evil woke.

Did you fail math in school?

Any state in the Union would collapse financially if it seceded. That's the way the central bank and the treasury are set up. They could survive after an adjustment period but there isn't a single state government that is not dependent on federal funds to stay afloat because they cannot print money.

JO

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Slavery didnt end last night. It ended well over a century ago. Your grasp of history is terrible.

I also referenced the Jim Crow era where not all americans were equal. Maybe you werent taught that in klan history.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

That's good to hear, and what I would expect. I suppose a few businesses, that is, their owners, might flee the California tax regime, and bring their pretense of 'wokeness' with them, but surely ordinary people would not vote to replicate that from which they fled.

I live in what is known as the Energy Corridor just outside of Houston.
It's called that because of all of the oil and gas related companies along I-10.
We get a lot of people from all over the world who come here to work for those oil and gas companies which are also foreign.
Once they see how much better it is as far as taxes and quality of life to be had here they end up staying.
it's also in the most diverse county in America and is a wealthy area.

 

[Doug1943]

Centuries of slavery followed by a century of oppression is not to be wished away overnight.
America was rigged to keep black people down.
Housing,politial,education and economic factors all played a part.

All of these factors played a part in reducing opportunity for black people. When people feel excluded by a society they feel less inclined tofollow its laws.
.
The GOP would like to return to that period. We see it posted on here every day..

A first step would be to bury the racist attitudes. However it seems to be moving in the opposite direction.

We both know that people will not be given $5m. That is just a distraction.

There is another point, more important about the "legacy of slavery" argument. What is good about this argument is that it tacitly admits that Black underclass behavior is a, if not the, factor in keeping them down. They behave badly, but this is a result of slavery and subsequent oppression.

Let's stipulate, for the sake of argument, that this explanation is true. Young Black males commit the majority of murders in the US because of what happened in the past.

But then ... the question becomes, what should we do now? Isn't trying to get them to change their behavior -- not just killing people, but criminality in general, pulling down talented Blacks through the "You're acting white" stuff ... isn't this what we should be discussing?

In other words -- and I know white liberals will hate to agree to this -- the Black problem is caused mainly by Black behavior, not by white behavior. ("Mainly".)

 

[Doug1943]

Well you create a straw man.I also stated that there was a century of oppression after slavery ended.

You choose to ignore that comment.

Education in the US was segregated and racist. White schools enjoyed a huge disparity in funding over their black counterparts..

How are black folk supposed to progress when the system is racist ? Over a century of this is not easily overturned.

But yeah, black folks are violent criminals. LOL.

Yes, Blacks went to segregated schools in the South. In the North, let's grant that schools in Black areas were not as well-resourced as schools in white areas: that was the rationale behind 'busing' fifty years ago. Of course, these things had a negative impact.

So is it your argument that if Black schools today were as well-funded as white schools, Black kids would perform at the level of their white counterparts?

And how about Black kids in mainly-white-or-Asian schools? There is a ton of evidence -- no one disputes this -- that they perform significantly more poorly than the Asian or white kids. Why do you think this is? 'The legacy of slavery/oppression'?

I gave the example, somewhere, of the very liberal acquaintances of mine in Seattle, who adopted a dark-skinned girl from India, and sent her to the integrated state school system, where she was accepted as one of them by the Black kids. My acquaintances were very educated people, she was not stupid, and began to excel in class. And ... the Black kids -- or some of them -- began criticizing her ... "You actin' white!"

Can't you see how corrosive this attitude is? And this is not an isolated anecdote. It's a well-attested phenomenon ... an example of the 'crab-pot effect'. An economist's analysis of it can be found here: An Economic Analysis of 'Acting White'

As for your final comment, "But yeah, black folks are violent criminals. LOL.", attributing this view to me... what a shame. I thought you were an honest leftist, misguided, but with personal integrity. Wrong.

 

[Doug1943]

Why are red states typically having higher murder rates, lower education and higher obesity?

Oops! You're getting into dangerous territory there, implying that 'obesty' is something bad.

Don't you know about 'diet racism'? Here's the once-reliable Scientific American [oh, what a fall was there, my countrymen!] on your racist attitudes:

The Racist Roots of Fighting Obesity​

Prescribing weight loss to Black women ignores barriers to their health

• By Sabrina Strings, Lindo Bacon on June 4, 2020

Credit: Chiara Vercesi

Black people, and Black women in particular, face considerable health challenges. Compared with their rates in other racial groups, chronic cardiovascular, inflammatory and metabolic risk factors have been found to be elevated in Black women, even after controlling for behaviors such as smoking, physical exercise or dietary variables.
Black women have also been identified as the subgroup with the highest body mass index (BMI) in the U.S., with four out of five classified as either “overweight” or “obese.” Many doctors have claimed that Black women’s “excess” weight is the main cause of their poor health outcomes, often without fully testing or diagnosing them. While there has been a massive public health campaign urging fat people to eat right, eat less and lose weight, Black women have been specifically targeted.
This heightened concern about their weight is not new; it reflects the racist stigmatization of Black women’s bodies.

 

[Catsnmeters]

Oops! You're getting into dangerous territory there, implying that 'obesty' is something bad.

Don't you know about 'diet racism'? Here's the once-reliable Scientific American [oh, what a fall was there, my countrymen!] on your racist attitudes:

Yawn...more racist dog whistles from the right. The right thinks everything is racist. Lol.

Obese red states costing billions and draining our medical recourses has nothing to do with racism.

 

[basquebromance]

Nah, im free. I think i will go home, smoke some weed a play some video games. Then again, maybe i will go to a restaurant. Whatever i decide to do on a whim is what i will do.

smoke week and play video games? you're 49, not 19...

 

[Doug1943]

If there were to be a solution to the 'Black underclass problem' -- which there will not be -- it would have to involve education as a key component.

School choice would help: get these kids into real schools. Having government-funded military academies, with strict standards of behavior, a long way from the Black ghetto, would help.

Of course, only mother who were really concerned about their sons would send their children there. But it would be a partial solution.

Leftist ought to agree with this, and a part of the Democratic voting base actually does support School Choice, because they know from personal experience how horrible the state schools in their areas are -- this is not mainly the fault of those schools' administrators or teachers or even the curriculum, but because they have to admit young people who are disruptive -- the "You actin' white!" brigade that pulls down Black youngsters who want to excel.

But real, hardcore, ideological Leftists hate School Choice like poison. It undermines one of their client groups, the teachers unions. And the pedagogical methods of schools not in the grip of the educational establishment are anathema to the hardcore Left, which wants "child-centered" education, "mixed-ability" teaching, and eschews memorization as a method of learning.

In the UK, the Conservative Party generally doesn't care about the children of the bottom half of society. Their leaders and politicians all send their children to private schools.

But ten years ago, when they were in coalition with the Liberal Party, one of their leaders who really does care about kids from the bottom half, Michael Gove by name, when he was Education Secretary, started something called 'Free Schools' -- somewhat similar to Charter Schools in the US.
[ Michael Gove - Wikipedia ]

One of the people who started a Free School was Katherine Birbalsingh, who believed in 'traditional' teaching methods. The Left here absolutely loathed her, and the school she started. But ... it takes ordinary children, mostly non-white, and gets brilliant results.
[ Michaela Community School - Wikipedia ]

If Lefties really cared about ordinary children from the bottom half of society, they'd hail this school and help start others like it. But of course they don't. They are captives of their ideology.

 

[Zincwarrior]

I am just tired of hearing you all talk about it but never actually do anything.

As the old saying goes, either shit or get off the pot.

Do it or quit talking about it.

Lets experiment. Get rid of West Virginia, Alabama, and Mississippi.

 

[Zincwarrior]

You're a fool tammy.
The red states produce everything the blue states need to survive. And those blue states are only blue in the big cities.
The red states control gas and oil and the food the blue cities need to survive. The blue cities are on an island surrounded by red.
A perfect and current example is Oregon counties wanting out of Oregon.

No, they literally don't. If they did you fuckers would have jobs and not all be fucked up on welfare and fentanyl.

 

[Doug1943]

Yawn...more racist dog whistles from the right. The right thinks everything is racist. Lol.

Obese red states costing billions and draining our medical recourses has nothing to do with racism.

Try reading the post you're replying to. Or get someone to read it to you. (Aren't there text-to-speech programs you can use now?)

 

[themirrorthief]

I also referenced the Jim Crow era where not all americans were equal. Maybe you werent taught that in klan history.I feel sorry for people like you who seem to live in the past

 

[themirrorthief]

Lets experiment. Get rid of West Virginia, Alabama, and Mississippi.

get rid of crme ridden shit villages likeNew Woke San Fran and Chicago

 

[themirrorthief]

I also referenced the Jim Crow era where not all americans were equal. Maybe you werent taught that in klan history.

jolly old england...quickly rushing to third world status

 

[themirrorthief]

Well you create a straw man.I also stated that there was a century of oppression after slavery ended.

You choose to ignore that comment.

Education in the US was segregated and racist. White schools enjoyed a huge disparity in funding over their black counterparts..

How are black folk supposed to progress when the system is racist ? Over a century of this is not easily overturned.

But yeah, black folks are violent criminals. LOL.

you will always be stuck in the past......if only you had a real leader like Henry eight again to chop off a few thousand heads

 

[themirrorthief]

If there were to be a solution to the 'Black underclass problem' -- which there will not be -- it would have to involve education as a key component.

School choice would help: get these kids into real schools. Having government-funded military academies, with strict standards of behavior, a long way from the Black ghetto, would help.

Of course, only mother who were really concerned about their sons would send their children there. But it would be a partial solution.

Leftist ought to agree with this, and a part of the Democratic voting base actually does support School Choice, because they know from personal experience how horrible the state schools in their areas are -- this is not mainly the fault of those schools' administrators or teachers or even the curriculum, but because they have to admit young people who are disruptive -- the "You actin' white!" brigade that pulls down Black youngsters who want to excel.

But real, hardcore, ideological Leftists hate School Choice like poison. It undermines one of their client groups, the teachers unions. And the pedagogical methods of schools not in the grip of the educational establishment are anathema to the hardcore Left, which wants "child-centered" education, "mixed-ability" teaching, and eschews memorization as a method of learning.

In the UK, the Conservative Party generally doesn't care about the children of the bottom half of society. Their leaders and politicians all send their children to private schools.

But ten years ago, when they were in coalition with the Liberal Party, one of their leaders who really does care about kids from the bottom half, Michael Gove by name, when he was Education Secretary, started something called 'Free Schools' -- somewhat similar to Charter Schools in the US.
[ Michael Gove - Wikipedia ]

One of the people who started a Free School was Katherine Birbalsingh, who believed in 'traditional' teaching methods. The Left here absolutely loathed her, and the school she started. But ... it takes ordinary children, mostly non-white, and gets brilliant results.
[ Michaela Community School - Wikipedia ]

If Lefties really cared about ordinary children from the bottom half of society, they'd hail this school and help start others like it. But of course they don't. They are captives of their ideology.

if black people could read with comprehension they could educate themselves

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Yes, Blacks went to segregated schools in the South. In the North, let's grant that schools in Black areas were not as well-resourced as schools in white areas: that was the rationale behind 'busing' fifty years ago. Of course, these things had a negative impact.

So is it your argument that if Black schools today were as well-funded as white schools, Black kids would perform at the level of their white counterparts?

And how about Black kids in mainly-white-or-Asian schools? There is a ton of evidence -- no one disputes this -- that they perform significantly more poorly than the Asian or white kids. Why do you think this is? 'The legacy of slavery/oppression'?

I gave the example, somewhere, of the very liberal acquaintances of mine in Seattle, who adopted a dark-skinned girl from India, and sent her to the integrated state school system, where she was accepted as one of them by the Black kids. My acquaintances were very educated people, she was not stupid, and began to excel in class. And ... the Black kids -- or some of them -- began criticizing her ... "You actin' white!"

Can't you see how corrosive this attitude is? And this is not an isolated anecdote. It's a well-attested phenomenon ... an example of the 'crab-pot effect'. An economist's analysis of it can be found here: An Economic Analysis of 'Acting White'

As for your final comment, "But yeah, black folks are violent criminals. LOL.", attributing this view to me... what a shame. I thought you were an honest leftist, misguided, but with personal integrity. Wrong.

I think I can see where you are coming from Doug.

 

[Doug1943]

if black people could read with comprehension they could educate themselves

No one is born knowing how to read. If you were born to a drug-addicted single mother in a South Chicago housing project, where you grew up literally not knowing anyone who had a job ... going to a school where the other kids made fun of you if you excelled in anything academic ... would you be the person you are today?

There are extraordinary individuals who manage to excel, despite all hardships. The well-known Black economist Thomas Sowell is one of these.

Thomas Sowell - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thomas Sowell ( born June 30, 1930) is an American author, economist, and political commentator who is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution. With widely published commentary and books—and as a guest on TV and radio—he became a well-known voice in the American conservative movement and is considered one of the most influential black conservatives. He was a recipient of the National Humanities Medal from President George W. Bush in 2002.[

Sowell was born in segregated Gastonia, North Carolina, to a poor family, and grew up in Harlem, New York City. Due to poverty and difficulties at home, he dropped out of Stuyvesant High School and worked various odd jobs, eventually serving in the United States Marine Corps during the Korean War. Afterward he took night classes at Howard University and then attended Harvard University, where he graduated magna cum laude in 1958

Of course, Leftists aren't going to want to see this man set up as an inspiration to Black youngsters. He doesn't fit their narrative.

And to be fair, he's an exceptional individual. (And how contemptible of little Lefty white boys to call this extraordinary man an 'Uncle Tom' because he doesn't agree with their shallow ideology.)

But neither should we play into the hands of the Left by implying that "It's all their own fault". The environment we grow up in plays a large role in how we turn out. For some people, we can change that environment. (And the'environment' includes the public dialogue that surrounds us, which is why the Left's incessant shouting "You're a Victim! Everything's loaded against you!" is so harmful. The linguist John McWhorter spells this out in detail here:
'Woke Racism: How a New Religion Has Betrayed Black America'
] Amazon product ASIN 0593423062 ] 'Woke Racism: How a New Religion Has Betrayed Black America'[John McWhorter - Wikipedia]