The American Genocide of the Indians—Historical Facts and Real Evidence

[longly]

Your a Zionist or Nazi? because you make use of this well known and worn-out nonsense argument.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with Mushroom’s comments. They are 100 percent correct. Mushroom not only knows history, but unlike many people, he understands it. Zeitgeist is an important part of understanding history.

The late‑19th‑century efforts to assimilate and Christianize the Plains peoples were introduced by social reformers who genuinely believed they were saving the Indians. They thought Native people were doomed to extinction and could only survive as Christian farmers. The 1924 law that made American Indians citizens of the United States was also part of that assimilation effort. And, by the way, it was opposed by some Native American leaders at the time because they saw it as another attempt to assimilate Native people.

However, I find it interesting that there are no calls by American Indians today to repeal that law.

 

[Soupnazi630]

And who exactly were these tribes, and who were they targeting?

Come on now, you said there were "many". So go ahead, name them. Even the multiple groups that the Sioux fought with over centuries never tried to wipe them out. So long as they left their lands, they simply no longer cared. And that is the culture that was closest to the Mongols in the Americas. Perpetually nomadic, starting in the 1400s in the Lower Mississippi, traveling up to the Great Lakes before turning West. They encountered every grouping of tribes along that route, and none of them tried to wipe them out. They simply wanted them gone because they were not good neighbors.

If you want to be believed, you have to do a hell of a lot better than simply making a blanket statement with nothing to back it up.

The Shawnee Targeting the Miami for one

The Aztecs targeting everyone else for another

Yes the plains tribes DID try to exterminate each other.

So **** you and your ignorance of history. I do back it up

 

[Soupnazi630]

I never stated that - so?? (however didn't some dumb peaceful Indians feed those Pilgrims, instead of slaughtering them)?
Do those Wampanoag & Abenaki still own and rule their ancestral lands??

FACT: No Red-Indian tribe ever exterminated, genocided another Red-Indian tribe - over and out.

Which is not for lack of trying

 

[Kruska]

There was absolutely nothing wrong with Mushroom’s comments. They are 100 percent correct. Mushroom not only knows history, but unlike many people, he understands it. Zeitgeist is an important part of understanding history.

Did you read and understand the headline of this Thread? - if yes
then you wound understand that Indians killing each other in wars - has NOTHING to do with the genocide that was placed onto them. So if anyone e.g. Mushroom comes with that "specific" argument, he is either a racist aka Nazi or Zionist, or simply brought in an argument that has NOTHING to with the topic.

The late‑19th‑century efforts to assimilate and Christianize the Plains peoples were introduced by social reformers who genuinely believed they were saving the Indians. They thought Native people were doomed to extinction and could only survive as Christian farmers. The 1924 law that made American Indians citizens of the United States was also part of that assimilation effort. And, by the way, it was opposed by some Native American leaders at the time because they saw it as another attempt to assimilate Native people.

The "decimation" of the Red-Indian doesn't start in the late 19th century - that would solely refer to the Plains-Indians, so why do you bring it in? And honestly who cares about what some supposed religious farmer, or missionary may have had in mind for those people that had already lost their dignity, identity, culture and their chance towards an autonomous survival. Christianity obviously did not help nor save them.

However, I find it interesting that there are no calls by American Indians today to repeal that law.

Have you ever meet "pure" Red-Indians in the past 50 years and talked or rather communicated with them?
The ones I used to converse with, where from Colorado, New-Mexico, Oklahoma, Kansas and Texas - I never manged to meet one of these former Great-Lakes-tribe-members.

If you have, then you would know and understand, why the absolute majority of Red-Indians couldn't be bothered about your question.

 

[westwall]

Like I said, they didn't have the means or they would have. People are people. The red man is not innately better than the white man.

They had the means. The Aztecs did it, and they were no more technologically advanced than the Navajo, or Sioux, or what have you.

They simply didn't conceive of committing genocide. Most tribes wouldn't even kill their opponents, it was far superior to count coup, than to kill.

 

[Mushroom]

There was absolutely nothing wrong with Mushroom’s comments. They are 100 percent correct. Mushroom not only knows history, but unlike many people, he understands it. Zeitgeist is an important part of understanding history.

Not only that, but I have a particular fascination with Indians as that is my own heritage.

I find it fascinating that for my ancestors from Germany and Norway my father was able to trace them back over 300 years. But on my mom's side, it pretty much ends in the 1850s as that is when my ancestors were on the Potawatomie "Trail of Death" from the Great Lakes area to Kansas, then eventually to Oklahoma. Just a few family legends still exist, absolutely no records at all.

But my response to people like that is always the same. If you dispute my claim, then actually present some evidence that contradicts what I said. Do not just call names and think that makes you superior.

 

[Mushroom]

The Shawnee Targeting the Miami for one

The Aztecs targeting everyone else for another

Yes the plains tribes DID try to exterminate each other.

So **** you and your ignorance of history. I do back it up

For the first, I found no evidence at all.

Now granted, there were some fighting between the Shawnee and Miami, but also with them working together to attack the US. Most notably under Tenskwatawa, and again under his brother Tecumseh (maybe you might have heard of him). They were allied in a confederation at that time, so when exactly were the Shawnee trying to exterminate the Miami?

For the second, I already explained that. The Aztecs targeting people is in nowhere near the same as trying to wipe them out.

And come on, name some names of tribes of Great Plains tribes trying to "exterminate each other".

I am not ignorant of history, and you have backed up nothing. Especially your first claim, which I quite clearly completely shattered.

Now actually give some specifics, do not just throw out some random names and expect to be believed.

 

[Soupnazi630]

For the first, I found no evidence at all.

Now granted, there were some fighting between the Shawnee and Miami, but also with them working together to attack the US. Most notably under Tenskwatawa, and again under his brother Tecumseh (maybe you might have heard of him). They were allied in a confederation at that time, so when exactly were the Shawnee trying to exterminate the Miami?

For the second, I already explained that. The Aztecs targeting people is in nowhere near the same as trying to wipe them out.

And come on, name some names of tribes of Great Plains tribes trying to "exterminate each other".

I am not ignorant of history, and you have backed up nothing. Especially your first claim, which I quite clearly completely shattered.

Now actually give some specifics, do not just throw out some random names and expect to be believed.

yes you are massively ignorant of hisory and you do nothing ecvept find revisionist shit ignoring anythiing else

You explained ..........................nothing.

You are proven wrong with facts I presented You shredded nothing you got owned and are bnow my *****

Back to school BOY

 

[Mushroom]

You are proven wrong with facts I presented

Then how can you explain that as you claim the Shawnee both tried to exterminate the Miami, and also were an a Confederation with them?

You presented no facts, I guess I should just call you "Pigeon".

 

[Soupnazi630]

Then how can you explain that as you claim the Shawnee both tried to exterminate the Miami, and also were an a Confederation with them?

You presented no facts, I guess I should just call you "Pigeon".

yeah thats you just mmake shit up

 

[Mushroom]

yeah thats you just mmake shit up

Did I make up Tecumseh's Confederation, or that the Miami were part of it? Or that the Shawnee actually moved into Miami lands at the invitation of the Miami?

Please prove to me that none of that happened. You claim I am "making shit up". So go ahead, actually prove me wrong.



And this is something I have actually been studying for decades, and it matches up with what I know of the lore my great-grandfather told me. How his grandfather had taken part in battles against the Americans, and been banished from their lands. That is why while most Potawatomie still live in the Great Lakes, there are off-shoots in Oklahoma. Those that were exiled to "Indian Country" after the uprising was put down.

I can provide a ton of actual references, but I notice that no matter how often I have asked you have never provided any reference to the Shawnee trying to exterminate the Miami.

Especially as the above Tecumseh's Confederacy was not the first time they worked together as allies. They also had a century earlier as partners in the Northwest Indian War.



You have claimed that the Shawnee tried to exterminate the Miami, yet I have now shown two clear cases where they were allied in two different Confederations.

Some come on now, bubba. Give us your references for this attempted extermination. This is where you "put up or shut up".

I love you keep claiming I make things up, yet I can back up what I say. You can't.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Did I make up Tecumseh's Confederation, or that the Miami were part of it? Or that the Shawnee actually moved into Miami lands at the invitation of the Miami?

Please prove to me that none of that happened. You claim I am "making shit up". So go ahead, actually prove me wrong.



And this is something I have actually been studying for decades, and it matches up with what I know of the lore my great-grandfather told me. How his grandfather had taken part in battles against the Americans, and been banished from their lands. That is why while most Potawatomie still live in the Great Lakes, there are off-shoots in Oklahoma. Those that were exiled to "Indian Country" after the uprising was put down.

I can provide a ton of actual references, but I notice that no matter how often I have asked you have never provided any reference to the Shawnee trying to exterminate the Miami.

Especially as the above Tecumseh's Confederacy was not the first time they worked together as allies. They also had a century earlier as partners in the Northwest Indian War.



You have claimed that the Shawnee tried to exterminate the Miami, yet I have now shown two clear cases where they were allied in two different Confederations.

Some come on now, bubba. Give us your references for this attempted extermination. This is where you "put up or shut up".

I love you keep claiming I make things up, yet I can back up what I say. You can't.

No you have not

Confederations mean nothing and were ignored at will between any and all natives

You failed massively and offered nothing but drooling ignorance and stupidity

 

[EdwinAMartin]

The Shawnee Targeting the Miami for one

The Aztecs targeting everyone else for another

Yes the plains tribes DID try to exterminate each other.

So **** you and your ignorance of history. I do back it up

The Sioux and Comanche warred on other tribes as well, eventually controlling huge regions.

 

[EdwinAMartin]

Actually, they warred over women and slaves. Land ownership was not a Native American concept.

Hunting grounds certainly were. And, the eastern tribes certainly had the concept.

 

[EdwinAMartin]

I never stated that - so?? (however didn't some dumb peaceful Indians feed those Pilgrims, instead of slaughtering them)?
Do those Wampanoag & Abenaki still own and rule their ancestral lands??

FACT: No Red-Indian tribe ever exterminated, genocided another Red-Indian tribe - over and out.

Rubbish.

 

[longly]

Native nations in North America did not generally seek to exterminate rival peoples entirely, but they did wage intense warfare. When a rival group occupied territory they wanted, they sometimes destroyed whole villages, killing men, women, and children. They frequently took women as captives and adopted children into their own communities. Their goal was usually to eliminate a rival’s presence in a region or reduce their power, not to wipe out the entire people as a whole. They did this in much the same way they would eliminate predators in their surroundings: not to eradicate wolves or coyotes as a species, but to remove those specific groups that competed with them for resources or posed a danger to their community.

The way my American Indian ancestors acted is quite similar to the way my Eurasian ancestors behaved. The Yamnaya of the Caspian–Pontic Steppe expanded their dominance from Central Asia into Europe using very similar methods. Like many Indigenous groups in North America, the Yamnaya spread through a combination of migration, warfare, and the absorption or displacement of rival populations. Both cultures operated within harsh environments where competition for land, resources, and security shaped their strategies for survival and expansion.

 

[Kruska]

Rubbish.

Rubbish yourself

Show me were I supposedly stated that Indians were solely peaceful!!! or that they didn't make war amongst each other.

Mushroom brought in his comment: that they lacked the means to exterminate other tribes.

Which I already proved to be an absurd comment - citing examples form the Zulus and other African and S-American tribes.

The Iroquois clearly had the means to exterminate the Huron's - decimated by diseases and wars - but simply absorbed (adopted was their favorite term) the vast majority of them in the mid 17th century - whilst the remaining Huron's moved to the Ohio region, then terming themselves as Wyandot.

So again: Red-Indians never exterminated other Indian tribes - because they obviously didn't harbor the concept of genocide.
The Plains-Indian were nomadic tribes who simply occupied existing hunting grounds of other tribes during their travels - taking the food, horses and women they needed -warring with the existing tribes at times, and naturally against the incoming European and American settlers - lastly with the US Army. (whereby in regards to the latter, they even united various tribes even nations).

The Western tribes were far more numerous, and lived in mostly fortified settlement,- "longhouses", surrounded by crop fields, and therefore engaged in a harsher territorial warfare, but no single Western tribe "exterminated" their rivals. maybe you watched too many movies "like the last of the Mohicans". - who belonged to the Algonquian-speaking nations - their descendants living in today's Wisconsin.

 

[longly]

"Mushroom brought in his comment: that they lacked the means to exterminate other tribes."

If Musharooming did in fact say this, he was entirely correct. The Native peoples of the Plains did not have the ability to exterminate one another. They simply did not have the resources, population size, or logistical capacity to wage total war. Even if they came close to wiping out another tribe, the arrival of fall forced them to stop fighting and focus on hunting and storing food for the winter. The weakened tribe would have done the same thing and then fled the area. By the next spring—when the traditional war season began—the enemy had already retreated, making complete extermination impossible. Plains tribes lacked the ability to fight year‑round wars. This was one of their biggest disadvantages when fighting the U.S. Army, and one of the biggest advantages Europeans had over them.

 

[westwall]

Hunting grounds certainly were. And, the eastern tribes certainly had the concept.

Hunting grounds were vast tracts because the critters they hunted were constantly on the move. So the hunting ground was where the critters were, RIGHT THEN.

Not some amorphous region.

 

[Mushroom]

No you have not

Confederations mean nothing and were ignored at will between any and all natives

You failed massively and offered nothing but drooling ignorance and stupidity

And you still have never said when this attempted genocide occured.

Gee, why is that? Maybe because it never happened? It's only a figment of your imagination, and you are pissed that I dare ask you to validate your claim?

Last time, put up or shut up. "Trust me, bro" does not work.