Red state Secession would see welfare dependent states collapse

[jbrownson0831]

Conservatives hate America and want to see it destroyed.

Kook Jones....nice ring.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

I always get a kick out of people on the left bitching about having to prop up red states.
They are the ones who created the government welfare industry, and then they turn around and bitch about having to fork over the money to people that use it.
I guess it all depends on who is getting the money.

I do believe in the rich helping the poor. American socialism helps red states. Its all good.

 

[Doug1943]

The truth of the matter is, both states need each other. The poorer red states have the natural resources, the food and the oil that the richer blue states desperately need, while the richer blue states have the money that the poorer red states need. Split them apart and the goods coming out of the red nation would dramatically increase in price as they now have a separate nation to feed, leaching wealth from the blue nation while it struggles to find something it can contribute to the rest of the world as it sinks beneath its increasingly top-heavy nanny state. Then, of course, since the US would no longer be the dominant military power on the planet, Uncle Sam would withdraw from Europe and Asia, leaving the EU floundering as each member state rapidly builds up its military since no one really trusts Germany and Italy, and their nanny states begin to fail. China would immediately expand its territory, sparking death and mayhem over Asia. Russia would see no impediment to forming a strategic alliance with China and would once again threaten Europe.

Ah, yes, wonderful days, and all because of blue state arrogance. Face it, we break this apart and the world changes, not for the better. But hey, no more mean tweets!

Interesting analysis!
To consider the possibility of an amicable separation seriously ... we would have to work out how to divide national assets and debts, and how to handle infrastructure maintenance for Blue-Red spanning things like highways, rivers, rail, telecoms ... but we do that anyway with Canada. And, with Canada, we also deal with air/space defense, via NORAD.

We'd want to retain the nukes and related satellites, command structure, etc... so we could threaten to inflict mutual destruction on a froeign enemy. I assume the Blue states would get all the neocons, so they could keep up the 400 military bases we have around the world ... if they could find anyone to wear the uniform.

We're all kidding here right now ... but we really ought to start thinking seriously about some form of friendly separation ... whether or not it's full secession from each other.

A question to our Leftist friends: surely, your lives would be simpler and happier if you got rid of us? No more being blocked in Congress, or angry parents at school board meetings when the school board wants to take the next step in demystifying sex for the children, etc. Think about it.

Norway used to be part of Sweden. They left peacefully over a century ago and the two countries have had the best of relations ever since. That sort of thing doesn't happen happen very often ... usually separation is accompanied by piles of corpses and burning neighborhoods. But we ought to be able to pull it off.

 

[XponentialChaos]

I'm game.
From your response, can I assume we count on your support?

Translation: you’re not going to do a damn thing.

 

[Doug1943]

The issue of which states bail out which others is not so simple. It's above my pay grade to try to sort all this out, but here are some relevant links:

Blue State Bailout? Red State Residents Received Largest Stimulus Checks, And Millions In Federal Aid

Blue state bailout? The numbers don’t support the claim; any way you slice the data, the answer looks much redder.

www.forbes.com

No, ‘blue states’ do not bail out ‘red states’

Statistical differences in federal income taxation and welfare policy is not a bailout.

thehill.com

The Myth of Red State Welfare

During the last few years, a key liberal talking point has been

www.americanthinker.com

Behind the Misleading Statement That Blue States Subsidize Red States

 

[jasonnfree]

I've seen a country boy fed up with with California and moved back to God's country. After awhile he came back. Said ain't nothing to do there but get a couple beers and go watch the kid's at baseball practice. Ain't nothing to do when you compare it to California which has everything you can imagine.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

The blue states would be under no obligation to buy products from the red states. They could buy where they get the bext value.That would likely drive prices down.

You're a fool tammy.
The red states produce everything the blue states need to survive. And those blue states are only blue in the big cities.
The red states control gas and oil and the food the blue cities need to survive. The blue cities are on an island surrounded by red.
A perfect and current example is Oregon counties wanting out of Oregon.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I've seen a country boy fed up with with California and moved back to God's country. After awhile he came back. Said ain't nothing to do there but get a couple beers and go watch the kid's at baseball practice. Ain't nothing to do when you compare it to California which has everything you can imagine.

Why do so many Oregon counties want out of Oregon?
And why are dems bailing on leftist states and moving to Texas and Florida?

 

[Doug1943]

I've seen a country boy fed up with with California and moved back to God's country. After awhile he came back. Said ain't nothing to do there but get a couple beers and go watch the kid's at baseball practice. Ain't nothing to do when you compare it to California which has everything you can imagine.

That country boy is right! In about 1958, I -- a teenager then -- visited relatives in California, and spent a few days in San Francisco. Coming from Houston ... it was paradise! I ended up living in California (in Bezerkely) about ten years later, and discovered the joys of backpacking in the National Parks and National Forests (sociaism as it should be). My parents even bought land in Humboldt County. And Highway One -- best drive in America, one end to the other.

So if that country boy is living out in the California countryside (parts of it) -- especially if he's in a rural eastern border county where the people are still sane -- ... and if he doesn't care about state politics, and can avoid the taxes necessary to pay the $5,000,000 per descendant-of-a-slave person 'Reparations' that some especially 'woke' California legislators are proposing ... he's right. You can't find a more beautiful set of surroundings. (And the same goes for Oregon, another beautiful state in the hands of loons.)

But ... he should be paying attention to state, and national politics. Not just where it's at now, but the direction of motion, and rate of change. Ohne mich isn't going to cut it.

He's like a Jew in 1935, deciding to move from Berlin to a little village in the Black Forest, to escape the Sturmabteilung gangs. Works for a while.

 

[Doug1943]

Why do so many Oregon counties want out of Oregon?
And why are dems bailing on leftist states and moving to Texas and Florida?

It's one of the great false beliefs of many on the Right that all Democrats are the same. There are plenty of sane Democrats ... not happy with 'woke' madness, but not willing to take the nasty abuse that comes with being seen to disagree with it.

They want Social Security and Medicare and even an extension of Medicare ... but don't want to defund the police, release criminals into the population, or have their children taught that Thomas Jefferson was practically a KKK member.

These are the people who voted to recall the son-of-Weathermen DA in San Franciso not long ago, and also yanked the 'woke' School Board members out of their posts after the latter decided to paint over a mural depicting American history which the hate-America Left thought was politically-incorrect. (A mural that had been painted by a Communist in the 1930s!)

I'm sure there are leftists living in Red states who are not happy there. We should try to arrange population exchanges, like the Serbs and Croats did (when they could pause temporarily from killing each other) in the former Yugoslavia during the 1990s. They even did house swaps.

Here's something for an entrepreneurally-minded person: a website featuring house-exchanges.

Now ... will these sane Democrats fleeing the Wokers Paradises vote in such a way as to reproduce the insanity in their new states? There's a problem.

I recall bumper stickers in Washington State, decades ago, with the slogan "Don't Californicate Washington!" Didn't work.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

American Divorce? More like America’s Brexit | Voices

Let’s talk about American Brexit

www.independent.co.uk

Marje has been sharing her vision on Hannity. She envisions a red state secession , Marjistan, that would break away from America.
The stats are quite illuminating.
# Counties that voted for President Joe Biden generate 70 percent of gross domestic product.
# Fourteen of the poorest 15 states voted Republican in 2020.

# All 12 richest states chose Biden.

# Only four red states have median household incomes in the top half of the 50 states.
# The nine red states that seceded in 1861 get, on average, 42 percent of their budgets from Washington, according to SmartAsset. Mostly that buys health care –

There are more stats in the article but the picture seems to be quite clear. These dependent states rail against govt spending whilst being the biggest recipients.

Its hilarious in a way but rather sad. I wonder if the exercise is worth it to just excorcise the evil woke.

Limmy why do you give a fuck?

 

[Doug1943]

You're a fool tammy.
The red states produce everything the blue states need to survive. And those blue states are only blue in the big cities.
The red states control gas and oil and the food the blue cities need to survive. The blue cities are on an island surrounded by red.
A perfect and current example is Oregon counties wanting out of Oregon.

We need to initiate a national conversation about the desirability of 'county option' -- not on allowing counties to ban liquor sales, which is what it means, or did mean, in some states, but on allowing them to transfer to an adjoining state.

I suppose losing a big chunk of your tax base would make Red Staters pause, when Blue cities in a Red state wanted to do this. But it would help reduce political tensions ... we would get rural counties from, say, the Left Coast states ... they might get .... hmmm... are there any Blue cities in Red states that have a Blue state next to them? I can't think of any. (There are cities that span state lines but the states are politically similar. And by 'city' I mean 'urban area', not a legal municipality, which has to be wholly within a single state.)

So, probably no 'Blue cities' in Red states that border a Blue state ... but are there 'Blue Counties' in Red states that border Blue states? If there aren't, then 'county option' is a non-starter, since the Left would only lose and not gain anything. (Getting rid of a few annoying reactionaries from their state legislatures wouldn't be enough of a motivation.)

 

[Tommy Tainant]

We need to initiate a national conversation about the desirability of 'county option' -- not on allowing counties to ban liquor sales, which is what it means, or did mean, in some states, but on allowing them to transfer to an adjoining state.

I suppose losing a big chunk of your tax base would make Red Staters pause, when Blue cities in a Red state wanted to do this. But it would help reduce political tensions ... we would get rural counties from, say, the Left Coast states ... they might get .... hmmm... are there any Blue cities in Red states that have a Blue state next to them? I can't think of any. (There are cities that span state lines but the states are politically similar. And by 'city' I mean 'urban area', not a legal municipality, which has to be wholly within a single state.)

So, probably no 'Blue cities' in Red states that border a Blue state ... but are there 'Blue Counties' in Red states that border Blue states? If there aren't, then 'county option' is a non-starter, since the Left would only lose and not gain anything. (Getting rid of a few annoying reactionaries from their state legislatures wouldn't be enough of a motivation.)

Or you could all just try and get along ?

 

[struth]

The blue states create the wealth and the red states spend it. There is no way this is good for red states.
They will need to grow their own economies.

um they have economies…FL, Texas, NC etc massively strong economies.

 

[Esdraelon]

With stats like that, one would wonder why lefties would oppose such a divorce.

I'm pretty sure it's just in their nature to DEMAND that others obey them. As for economic collapse IF red states break away, only an idiot could expect our economy to survive with the debt level we now have. They're trying to whistle past the graveyard but reality is about to blow them out.

After the country has finally reached an "equilibrium of misery", "immigration" will regulate itself. As far as concern about red state collapse, I'd choose to live in a red state, even if the luxuries were no longer available as long as those on the Left, stayed out of our way and did their thing where THEY live. As long as they do that, no harm, no foul. If secessionist movements gain traction and the Feds try to crush red states to stop it, it's going to get ugly.

 

[Doug1943]

Or you could all just try and get along ?

Yeah ... I remember when Rodney King [ Rodney King - Wikipedia ] said that ... very touching, and I'm not being cynical here.

The problem is that many people -- a majority, probably -- on my side, and a significant minority, if not already a majority, on your side, no longer believe this is possible, because we don't share the same basic emotional attitudes towards our country. (I'm refraining from using the word 'values' here, because it opens a can of semantic worms, and is not really the main difference anyway.)

When almost everyone on my side sees the American flag, for example, they get a good feeling. (Maybe some hard-core Neo-Confederates, and modern Germanophile Nazis don't.) They love America, warts and all. Not some abstract idea of what America could be someday if it just had national health care and the police stopped their daily executions of innocent young Black men on their way to do volunteer work at old peoples' homes. They love -- irrationally, powerfully, emotionally -- the America that exists now, and which has existed.

But there are a significant minority on your side -- a minority, but significant, as they're pushing the rest of you in a certain direction -- who don't feel this way. They see four centuries of racism, slavery, oppression ... homophobia, transphobia, MAP-phobia (okay, that's in the future), male chauvinism, able-ism, colonialism, imperialism ... etc etc. (And their disdain for my side, for many of them, is also bolstered by class prejudice -- the unwonted pride of someone with a college degree, or who could get one, for those who don't have one.)

And I'm just talking about the whites.

By the way, I don't think this shows any moral superiority of my side whatsoever. 'Patriotism' is not a virtue, the way the personal honesty or compassion or fidelity to one's word is. But that's a long argument for another time.

It's just a fact. A lot of people on both sides don't see their fellow countrymen as people they have anything in common with beyond a dry technical-legal connection. They feel like Indian Muslims and Indian Hindus do towards each other, or the tribes of Africa in those countries artificially constructed by the colonialists.

Yes, I can get along -- and do get along -- with old Old Leftists who also are internationalists and not 'patriots'. But we both share a committment to reason and rationality, and we both understand that people are products of their circumstances, not inherently good or evil. We both believe in human progress, we just disagree as to the best means to attain it.

But most poeple on your side see my side as inherently evil racists/homophobes etc etc etc, mindless followers of The American Mussolini, and my side sees your side as wicked 'commies', being manipulated by George Soros and Satan, mindless dupes at best.

We would be so much better off in different countries. Then we could 'get along', because no one cares what happens to people in other countries.

 

[Catsnmeters]

Kook. Its the Dim run large cities in any state that are killing our country.

Why are red states typically having higher murder rates, lower education and higher obesity?

 

[Catsnmeters]

American Divorce? More like America’s Brexit | Voices

Let’s talk about American Brexit

www.independent.co.uk

Marje has been sharing her vision on Hannity. She envisions a red state secession , Marjistan, that would break away from America.
The stats are quite illuminating.
# Counties that voted for President Joe Biden generate 70 percent of gross domestic product.
# Fourteen of the poorest 15 states voted Republican in 2020.

# All 12 richest states chose Biden.

# Only four red states have median household incomes in the top half of the 50 states.
# The nine red states that seceded in 1861 get, on average, 42 percent of their budgets from Washington, according to SmartAsset. Mostly that buys health care –

There are more stats in the article but the picture seems to be quite clear. These dependent states rail against govt spending whilst being the biggest recipients.

Its hilarious in a way but rather sad. I wonder if the exercise is worth it to just excorcise the evil woke.

Russia and China support this idea.

Go get'em Marg.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

There are 435 congresspeople but gay foreigners pick on the attractive blonde republican. No surprises here.

attractive???

 

[Doug1943]

Why are red states typically having higher murder rates, lower education and higher obesity?

Hmmm... could it be that we are just inherently wicked and stupid and violent? Or are those murder rates -- not to mention the education and obesity rates -- perhaps concentrated among ... er ... people living in the Red states who are not, in the inverted American use of that adjective, 'Red'?

I assume you are aware that, although they constitute about 3% of the American population, young Black males commit a majority -- ie more than 50% -- of the unlawful killings in America? Now maybe they listen to Fox News and vote Republican, but somehow I doubt it.

It would be nice if these fellows all moved to Blue states, but a lot of them live in the big cities of Red States ... cities with Democratic mayors and, we can assume, a restrained, if not defunded, police force.

Here's a more extended refutation of your claim:
[ Study debunks ‘red state murder’ claim from Hillary Clinton, Democrats ]

But maybe we can work out a deal here! We'll identify all our Red-State 'Blue' voters -- especially the ones who kill each other a lot -- and you and we will work together to rescue them from life in a horrible, low-education, fatty, violent Red State, by helping them emigrate to one of your states!!! How about it???