Putting the Catholic Church in my rear view window...

[Likkmee]

The Cathlick church always watches you backside

 

[BreezeWood]

I met someone last night.

It was our first date, but something clicked between us and I think she may be the person I spend the rest of my life with.

But, even if it doesn't end up being her, someone will come along eventually because I'm on three dating services and I'm searching very diligently because I hate being alone.

So, it's time to put the Catholic Church in my rear view window.

Now you can say, get an annulment. The Catholic Church offers that.

But I think it's total bullshit to ask the Catholic Church to say I wasn't really married to a woman I spent thirty years with and is the mother of my three children.

I looked into the Episcopalians.

Being an Episcopalian would be like going to a church that looks Catholic in every way, except the priests don't really care if you even believe in God so long as you put money in the basket.

Or I could just not go to any church on Sunday and work things out just between me and God.

Please don't come on this thread and tell me this isn't really a problem.

It's a problem for me.

I've been Catholic all my life and giving up Catholicism would be worse than giving up my right arm.

.

It was our first date, but something clicked between us and I think she may be the person I spend the rest of my life with.

But I think it's total bullshit to ask the Catholic Church to say I wasn't really married to a woman I spent thirty years with and is the mother of my three children.

Please don't come on this thread and tell me this isn't really a problem.

I've been Catholic all my life and giving up Catholicism would be worse than giving up my right arm.

.
like, have you ever considered resolving your split personality ... which is it your church or your partner.
.

* no, neither were there on your first date - those were wantabe reflections, see what's there without the makeup. and burn your stupid cross the church had nothing to do with your failed marriage its your anchor holding you under water take a fresh breath of air.

 

[Mr Natural]

As a divorced Catholic, (aka, adulterer) you're going to hell anyway so you may as well live it up while you're here.

 

[Blackrook]

When one is raised a Catholic, one's heart remains in the Catholic Church no matter how far one tries to walk away from it.

It is the same for any religion.

Children accept what parents, teachers and priests tell them because children assume grown-ups are always telling the truth.

Even if I joined the Episcopalians I would always compare them to the Catholic Church, always thinking that if they strayed from the Catholic way they were doing it wrong.

Therefore, my struggle is within myself. Those of you who say the Catholic Church isn't really the One True Church and therefore I should be able to easily walk away are missing the point.

I believe the Catholic Church is the One True Church.

The Catholic teaching is that any Catholic who leaves the Church knowing that it is the One True Church, there is no hope for him to go to heaven.

And because I am Catholic, I believe that teaching also.

Therefore, if I leave the Church in order to have a relationship with a woman, I believe I will go to hell.

Please don't tell me how ridiculous that sounds to you, it's not at all ridiculous to me.

 

[BS Filter]

Find a church that teaches the Bible, not religion. If they act like Jesus freaks, it's a good thing usually. If they bring out the snakes after the first worship song, you're in the wrong church.

 

[LittleNipper]

I met someone last night.

It was our first date, but something clicked between us and I think she may be the person I spend the rest of my life with.

But, even if it doesn't end up being her, someone will come along eventually because I'm on three dating services and I'm searching very diligently because I hate being alone.

So, it's time to put the Catholic Church in my rear view window.

Now you can say, get an annulment. The Catholic Church offers that.

But I think it's total bullshit to ask the Catholic Church to say I wasn't really married to a woman I spent thirty years with and is the mother of my three children.

I looked into the Episcopalians.

Being an Episcopalian would be like going to a church that looks Catholic in every way, except the priests don't really care if you even believe in God so long as you put money in the basket.

Or I could just not go to any church on Sunday and work things out just between me and God.

Please don't come on this thread and tell me this isn't really a problem.

It's a problem for me.

I've been Catholic all my life and giving up Catholicism would be worse than giving up my right arm.

I believe GOD is dealing with Y-O-U and Y-O-U-R relationship with GOD through Christ Jesus. It isn't about being perfect. If we were perfect we would NOT need the SAVIOR! It isn't about attending the "correct" church. Because EVERY church has its own issues. It IS entirely about having a personal relationship with GOD through JESUS the Messiah.

YES! you should attend A church. And this is obviously something you need to be in prayer about. You should seek to associate with, and commune with a body of believers. No one is an island unto himself. We all need encouragement and relationships, and direction. The reality is that we should associate ourselves with others who also desire to serve the LORD.

Is the Catholic church THE CHURCH? NO, absolutely not. It is a church, and there are some CHRISTIANS who attend services there. And such are a part of the body of CHRIST and are in fact part of HIS CHURCH. But what you need, is to leave the legalism behind and find a congregation of believers who are going to feed you from GOD's Word and encourage you to study it for yourself on a regular bases.

As far as marriage, I would suggest that you only date someone who believes as you do. And if you don't know what to believe and the other is searching, you could both search TOGETHER. However, if the one you date doesn't show any interest in spiritual things, I suggest you pray for such an individual but NEVER marry that one until they repent and come to the LORD. You will reap dissension, unhappiness, and despair.

You have shown great discernment with the realization that all churches are not equal. And traditional formalities alone never saved anyone. One needs to embrace GOD and ask HIM for guidance and not depend on church authorities to do all the work for you. You will never be any better than you instructors if you don't extend YOURSELF. This will require GOD directed study and discipline. '

I would suggest you seek out a small Bible believing church to start. They will have the motivation to invest time in you, and such should encourage your understanding of the Bible from a more personal perspective. May GOD help you in this quest.

 

[Blackrook]

Find a church that teaches the Bible, not religion. If they act like Jesus freaks, it's a good thing usually. If they bring out the snakes after the first worship song, you're in the wrong church.

That option is unavailable to me.

My dislike for the evangelical churches is intense, probably because of the thoughtless way they tell a Catholic like me that I'm an idolater who is going to hell.

Also, the concept that faith alone saves is a dangerous error because it discourages such notions as obeying the commandments and giving money to charity, and the concept that one is saved by one altar call is dangerous because it denies the truth that one's spiritual development is a struggle that ends only at the moment of death.

The Episcopalians are the outer limit of how far I'm willing to plunge into the Protestant world.

Their priests dress like Catholic priests, their Masses our similar to our Masses, and their Eucharist is the same as ours -- though illegitimate according to the Catholic Church.

The Episcopalians are, however, moral relativists who will openly admit they're not really sure if Christianity is true. For me, the idea of showing up to Mass every Sunday for a religion you're not sure of doesn't make any sense at all. Why not sleep in?

It seems that the purpose of Episcopalianism is to give fallen away Catholics a soft landing for awhile before arriving at the ultimate end of complete lack of belief. And then, after you do reach this state of non-belief, you are still welcome to attend Mass on Sunday and go on behaving as if you believe, with everyone knowing and accepting that you really don't.

And while it might be a comfort to many to attend familiar rituals in familiar surroundings, I am a person who must actually believe in what I'm doing and could never believe in the watered-down Catholicism of the Episcopalian Church.

 

[Blackrook]

One person criticized my legalism. I am a lawyer, I can't help it, that way of thinking was pounded into me when I attended law school.

I analyze every problem from every angle, including my faith and my relationships with women.

My analysis of my problem with the Catholic Church's teaching that divorce and remarriage is forbidden, reveals to me that there is no way I can win. But there are the options:

1) Stop making an effort to find a life partner and live the rest of my life alone as a practicing Catholic;

2) Get involved with a woman and attend the Catholic Church services anyway;

3) Get an annulment;

4) Walk away from Catholicism and join another Christian denomination; or

5) Walk away from Catholicism and stop attending any Sunday service.

So far, it looks like option five is where I'm heading. It is a default option that requires the least amount of effort.

But here's the thing:

If I live a life of not attending Church on Sunday, and having sex with a woman who is not my wife, what happens to me when I die?

I can try to hurl that problem in a dumpster and walk away from it, but in the back of mind it will press on me and as I get older and my health begins to fail, the problem will press on me harder and harder as an issue that must be resolved.

Would I, on my death bed, call for a priest and confess to everything and hope for absolution?

But how does that work? I really wouldn't be sorry.

I think the vast majority of people, including Christians, can't understand the problem. The Catholic Church has many, many rules, and one of the most important rule is Christ's teaching that there is only one sin that is unforgivable: "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit."

I looked it up and there's lots of ways to commit blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, but what it boils down to is living in a state of sin and refusing to repent of it.

That's the reason Catholics who remarry are denied the Eucharist. One cannot accept the Body and Blood of Christ into your body while living in a state of sin and refusing to repent.

It's a form of ex-communication, appropriate for a sin so grave that if you die with it on your soul you go to hell.

The Church tries to whitewash it a bit, saying if you're in this state, come anyway, bring your children. You can attend Mass even if you can't accept the Eucharist.

But really, when you're living like that you're like a man on death row. Actually, it's worse.

I would love to hear anyone explain to me how none of what I've said is true.

 

[Meriweather]

The problem with taking this issue to the forum is that only a person who takes Catholicism seriously would understand the choices I'm faced with.

If you boil it down to terms that a priest would be too scared to tell you, the Catholic answer is that if a Catholic leaves the Church, with full knowledge that the Catholic Church is the true Church, there is no hope that person will go to heaven.

My two choices then are this:

A lifetime of happiness with a woman I love -- then an eternity in hell; or

A lifetime of misery for the next thirty years or so -- then an eternity in heaven.

As one Catholic to another:

Go back to what Jesus taught and why he taught it. The ideal is that a couple remain married. From what I gather it was your wife you divorced you and is apparently married or living with another? Jesus had that one exception about divorce being acceptable in cases where one was unfaithful to the original marriage vows. It sounds like you were and are still faithful to yours. If your wife divorced you and is having relations with another, then that bond has been broken. The anguish Jesus was trying to prevent by his teaching of no divorce settled upon you. Repairing that original marriage is out of reach.

The number one issue Jesus was passionate about is that sins are forgiven. You want to try to overcome the sin that came out of your first marriage. You want to be a faithful husband. You want to be a faithful disciple.

The second issue is that Jesus commanded we partake of communion to do it in remembrance of him. You believe Catholic teaching. You are as sick about turning your back on it as you were/are turning your back on your first wife. So don't. This is between you and Jesus. He doesn't want to lose you, not now, not in eternity. In good conscience you cannot do without the Sacraments, and in truth, it is the Sacraments that will help you in any new marriage. Continue to go to church. Continue with the sacraments, because that is what Jesus calls you to first, even in a second marriage.

Guilt feelings? Why should you? Biden, Pelosi, and any other Catholic politician that supports abortion publicly are given communion, and in my opinion their sin against life is greater than the sin of a second marriage--especially when it was not your wish to end the first. Such is bureaucracy. I believe the Church tries to avoid bureaucracy as much as possible, but some is unavoidable. It does not sound as though you are bucking Jesus and Church teachings on the idea. It sounds like you are ensnared in the bureaucracy. Let Christ lead you through. We know you have always been a faithful follower. You just never expected this obstacle, yet here it is.

Pray--just between you and He and your unique situation. I believe he wants your happiness both now and hereafter. Remember Paul's words that it is better to marry than to burn.

These are my thoughts, my opinions. Others might vary.

 

[Meriweather]

having sex with a woman who is not my wife

Make the woman your wife.

 

[Blackrook]

having sex with a woman who is not my wife

Make the woman your wife.

Eventually, I might marry someone.

 

[Kilroy2]

If it is a personal issue why bring it to the forum. What is your motive?

is changing churches a moral issue? is changing ones beliefs a moral issue? is changing religions a moral issue? The issue may be over analyzing the situation. When given two choices, then only one can be chosen and the person has to live with it or let it destroy that person. Got to love choice.

I think he is asking for other people who have been in his position. You have to feel right in yourself.

exactly but I would say it is still a personal decision that only the individual can make and has to live with it. Getting other people opinions will only cloud the issue or worst validate the decision that one has to make. People have to make decisions and live with it. That is what free will is about. Right or wrong decisions are made but if its wrong then you can still move forward and not obsess about it. At some level you have to take responsibility for your actions. Nothing wrong with asking for opinions from people you trust. At the end of the day the decision is still yours unless you give it away.

 

[LittleNipper]

Find a church that teaches the Bible, not religion. If they act like Jesus freaks, it's a good thing usually. If they bring out the snakes after the first worship song, you're in the wrong church.

That option is unavailable to me.

My dislike for the evangelical churches is intense, probably because of the thoughtless way they tell a Catholic like me that I'm an idolater who is going to hell.

Also, the concept that faith alone saves is a dangerous error because it discourages such notions as obeying the commandments and giving money to charity, and the concept that one is saved by one altar call is dangerous because it denies the truth that one's spiritual development is a struggle that ends only at the moment of death.

The Episcopalians are the outer limit of how far I'm willing to plunge into the Protestant world.

Their priests dress like Catholic priests, their Masses our similar to our Masses, and their Eucharist is the same as ours -- though illegitimate according to the Catholic Church.

The Episcopalians are, however, moral relativists who will openly admit they're not really sure if Christianity is true. For me, the idea of showing up to Mass every Sunday for a religion you're not sure of doesn't make any sense at all. Why not sleep in?

It seems that the purpose of Episcopalianism is to give fallen away Catholics a soft landing for awhile before arriving at the ultimate end of complete lack of belief. And then, after you do reach this state of non-belief, you are still welcome to attend Mass on Sunday and go on behaving as if you believe, with everyone knowing and accepting that you really don't.

And while it might be a comfort to many to attend familiar rituals in familiar surroundings, I am a person who must actually believe in what I'm doing and could never believe in the watered-down Catholicism of the Episcopalian Church.

Works do not save. Faith in Our Lord Jesus Christ does. The fact that you seem to believe that you must also do this and that, only demonstrates that you may not know what GOD's GIFT of salvation is. Once a person becomes "born-again" of course GOD begins a work in and through that individual. However, anyone who believes that to be saved one must/needs to go here and there, do this and that and be essentially a "good" person, is missing what GOD did for us and focusing on what we "must" do for HIM. The Catholic church whatever it's form bases it's belief structure around the assumption that one needs to eat the body of CHRIST and drink HIS at every mass. THAT IS WORK! CHRIST died once and for always for ALL sin. We simply need to repentfully accept what GOD has already accomplished and in remembrance participate in the Lord's Supper. The Catholic faith believes that the church authorities need to tell the parishioners what to do and how to believe. They hold that this can be traced all the way back to Peter. Sorry, I don't believe this. The Apostles helped to establish CHRIST's CHURCH and then it was the HOLY SPIRIT that continues this work through GOD's elect (body of believer) to this day. The minister/preacher/bishop is not the head but a shepherd/servant that CHRIST allows to minister to HIS sheep. YOU must see this or you will continue to see the CHURCH as merely popes and stained glass windowed facades.

 

[Meriweather]

The Catholic church whatever it's form bases it's belief structure around the assumption that one needs to eat the body of CHRIST and drink HIS at every mass. THAT IS WORK!

Coming together and sharing a meal is not work. It is celebration. Celebration of our redemption and salvation.

Do you believe we should be disciples of Christ? Disciple is derived from the word 'discipline' which implies work and training. Jesus taught us a way of life, of choosing one way of doing over the other. (i.e., obeying the will of God rather than choosing disobedience.)

 

[Meriweather]

The fact that you seem to believe that you must also do this and that

It seems he believes there is an ideal way of doing something (following the will of God) and a less ideal way of doing something (not being in alignment of God's will for us).

 

[Meriweather]

CHRIST died once and for always for ALL sin

Read the Gospels. Christ died because of his insistence that it is Repentance for the Forgiveness of Sins. Sins, he said, ARE forgiven, not that they will be forgiven once he is crucified.

 

[Meriweather]

The Catholic faith believes that the church authorities need to tell the parishioners what to do and how to believe.

And how did you reach this conclusion? I've been a life-long Catholic, and know first hand that the Church is fond of pointing out the number of ways all down through the ages Catholics have disagreed on certain points, yet remain solidly together. On the other hand, if by "What to do" you mean the Church teaches "Discern the will of God and follow it" then my apologies as we are taught to do that. The Church indeed does teach that. The church does not give instructions on "How to Believe", simply to have faith and believe.

 

[Meriweather]

The minister/preacher/bishop is not the head but a shepherd/servant that CHRIST allows to minister to HIS sheep.

Do you know the first title of the Pope? "The Servant of the Servants of God."

 

[Taz]

CHRIST died once and for always for ALL sin

Read the Gospels. Christ died because of his insistence that it is Repentance for the Forgiveness of Sins. Sins, he said, ARE forgiven, not that they will be forgiven once he is crucified.

Christ died because he was ratted out. Now you know.

 

[Turtlesoup]

I met someone last night.

It was our first date, but something clicked between us and I think she may be the person I spend the rest of my life with.

But, even if it doesn't end up being her, someone will come along eventually because I'm on three dating services and I'm searching very diligently because I hate being alone.

So, it's time to put the Catholic Church in my rear view window.

Now you can say, get an annulment. The Catholic Church offers that.

But I think it's total bullshit to ask the Catholic Church to say I wasn't really married to a woman I spent thirty years with and is the mother of my three children.

I looked into the Episcopalians.

Being an Episcopalian would be like going to a church that looks Catholic in every way, except the priests don't really care if you even believe in God so long as you put money in the basket.

Or I could just not go to any church on Sunday and work things out just between me and God.

Please don't come on this thread and tell me this isn't really a problem.

It's a problem for me.

I've been Catholic all my life and giving up Catholicism would be worse than giving up my right arm.

You'd annul your marriage making your 3 kids bastards? They will hate you forever.

Screw the church--whatever they think of your marriage is meaningless..sure they will annul your marriage for a DONATION, not caring about your kids but you should. Your marriage happened and your kids happened. Why try to pretend that they didn't.

Man up ---get a divorce.