Zone1 In response to anti-Catholics and former Catholics (on why they are that)

[rightwinger]

What is it that does not feel real? How does it feel and why?

I compared the stories in the Bible to Fairy Tales and realized they are the same

 

[rightwinger]

There is all kinds of corroboration -- Historians wrote about Jesus

Actually, they found many figures with similar stories.
But a single man with a huge following would have been documented by the Romans

 

[1miseryindex]

I compared the stories in the Bible to Fairy Tales and realized they are the same

well, I wouldn't myself know about the Real Presence of Christ (which is very powerful for understand your personal circumstances/relationships in life..) if not for a good priest I had the good fortune to run into years ago... I thank God for him every day

People get depressed and turn to drugs or alc or whatever... bad relationships... anything can be addicting

because they do not have this Real Presence, Someone who loves them unconditionally and HELPS them (if only they let Him)

 

[1miseryindex]

Actually, they found many figures with similar stories.
But a single man with a huge following would have been documented by the Romans

I am sure some of the historians I have read were Romans

and it seems you are just casting about for excuses

 

[Meriweather]

I compared the stories in the Bible to Fairy Tales and realized they are the same

Turning away from doing wrong, doing right instead doesn't feel real in either Fairy Tales or the Bible?

For me, the Bible goes further than Fairy Tales, as much as I still enjoy Fairy Tales. No Fairy Tale asserted that I was the salt of the earth, and I should not hide my light under a basket. Fairy Tales did not tell me ways to live peacefully or to value that which is holy. It wasn't always all that good in teaching about forgiveness, either. In those ways, the Bible is entirely real.

What I did/do like about Fairy Tales are all the happy endings...which don't always happen in the Bible.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Those who are members of the Church Christ himself established

When was Jesus in Rome?

 

[Meriweather]

When was Jesus in Rome?

Was Jesus ever in North America? Is his Church here?

 

[The Irish Ram]

Was Jesus ever in North America? Is his Church here?

Did He start any of them? Way back after His resurrection?
He didn't start one in Italy either. Jesus was and is and will be a Jewish Rabbi, not a Catholic priest.

Peter started a church in Jerusalem and preached there for 15 years, with thousands getting saved. If Peter and Paul went to the church in Antioch, then there was a church there too. Paul started a bunch of them. And they are all mentioned in the Bible. The Vatican is not.
And when presented with the facts, misery never misses an opportunity to lie about it...

 

[Meriweather]

Peter started a church in Jerusalem and preached there for 15 years, with thousands getting saved. If Peter and Paul went to the church in Antioch, then there was a church there too. Paul started a bunch of them. And they are all mentioned in the Bible. The Vatican is not.
And when presented with the facts, misery never misses an opportunity to lie about it...

Peter was also in Rome. Note the conclusion in the first letter of Peter. Greetings are sent from "Babylon" which was their code name for Rome. If this is not enough for you, Clement in the year 70 wrote a letter noting Peter's life ended as Paul's did. There are mentions by others as well. So most scholars do conclude Peter was indeed in Rome. It is not just Church tradition.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Peter was jailed for preaching at his church in Jerusalem, He escaped,

Peter was also in Rome. Note the conclusion in the first letter of Peter. Greetings are sent from "Babylon" which was their code name for Rome. If this is not enough for you, Clement in the year 70 wrote a letter noting Peter's life ended as Paul's did. There are mentions by others as well. So most scholars do conclude Peter was indeed in Rome. It is not just Church tradition.

Yes, Peter was in Rome. After his escape from prison in Israel, he fled to Rome, was imprisoned there and then executed. No mention of any church there, and no mention of it from Christ. If Christ started a church it would have been worthy of at least an honorable mention, but no such acknowledgement.

 

[Meriweather]

No mention of any church there

By anyone? I am guessing you mean no mention in the Bible and that any mention by other early Christians is to be ignored.

 

[The Irish Ram]

It's about the churches that are recognized by Christ. If He had started a church in Rome, He'd say so. He would have rated it along with Paul's churches.
So, what early Christians said the Jesus or Peter started the Vatican?

 

[ninja007]

im a CHRISTian.

 

[ninja007]

No, Jesus is real to me based on personal EXPERIENCE

being in His tangible Presence

found only in HIS Church

jesus is real to satan too.

 

[ninja007]

well, I wouldn't myself know about the Real Presence of Christ (which is very powerful for understand your personal circumstances/relationships in life..) if not for a good priest I had the good fortune to run into years ago... I thank God for him every day

People get depressed and turn to drugs or alc or whatever... bad relationships... anything can be addicting

because they do not have this Real Presence, Someone who loves them unconditionally and HELPS them (if only they let Him)

the "real" presense of jesus is in heaven- he hasnt left since the ascention. but the holy Spirit is on earth not Jesus. glad i could help. if you believe in something you better back it up with bible not feelings or hopes.

 

[ninja007]

Introduction: ONE VERSE REFUTATION OF TRANSUBSTANTIATION EUCHARIST



The Catholic and Greek Orthodox false doctrine of "transubstantiation" teaches that the bread and juice undergo a change to become the literal body and blood of Christ.



"And when Jesus had taken a cup and given thanks (Catholic transubstantiation happens here), He gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you; for this is My blood (Orthodox transubstantiation happens here) of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins. “But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine (Jesus still called it juice) from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom.”" (Matthew 26:27–29)

• 1. Transubstantiation teaches the bread the juice for the Eucharist miraculously changes into the literal flesh and blood of Jesus.
• 2. Both Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches admit transubstantiation is NOT taught I the Bible, but is based upon human tradition which has its origin with the apostles themselves.
• 3. Orthodox say the grape juice changes into literal blood at the “prayer of thanksgiving” before the proclamation “this is my body”.
• 4. Catholics say the grape juice changes into literal blood at the proclamation "this is my body" after the prayer.

ONE VERSE REFUTATION #1: If you carefully read Mt 26:27-29 above, you will notice that after Jesus “gave thanks” and proclaimed “this is my blood”, Jesus himself refutes both RC and Orthodox because he then afterwards called it “fruit of the vine” not blood. This utterly collapses and refutes, with no chance for rebuttal of any kind, the false doctrines of the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches.



BONUS REFUTION #2: The fact that Orthodox and Catholic BOTH CLAIM their ritual is direct apostolic authority, example and tradition, BUT they practice TWO DIFFERENT THINGS, proves transubstantiation is a human false doctrine invented in the 4th century AD.

One verse refution of Transubstantiation

 

[Meriweather]

It's about the churches that are recognized by Christ. If He had started a church in Rome, He'd say so. He would have rated it along with Paul's churches.
So, what early Christians said the Jesus or Peter started the Vatican?

In Acts 1:8, when Jesus said, "to the ends of the Earth", you believe he meant, "But skip Rome"? As already noted the "Babylon" mentioned in the conclusion of 1 Peter is a reference to Rome. And...there is Paul's letter to the Romans.

Why so adamant that Rome be summarily dismissed?

 

[1miseryindex]

Peter was also in Rome. Note the conclusion in the first letter of Peter. Greetings are sent from "Babylon" which was their code name for Rome. If this is not enough for you, Clement in the year 70 wrote a letter noting Peter's life ended as Paul's did. There are mentions by others as well. So most scholars do conclude Peter was indeed in Rome. It is not just Church tradition.

I believe Paul was beheaded whereas Peter was crucified (upside down)

 

[The Irish Ram]

In Acts 1:8, when Jesus said, "to the ends of the Earth", you believe he meant, "But skip Rome"? As already noted the "Babylon" mentioned in the conclusion of 1 Peter is a reference to Rome. And...there is Paul's letter to the Romans.

Why so adamant that Rome be summarily dismissed?

I've got nothing against Rome. I have something against false dogma:
Christ did not start the church of Rome.
It isn't mentioned among the churches Paul started.
And the church Peter started was in Jerusalem.

Peter and Paul were murdered in Rome. If Peter started a church there, why wasn't Peter's "Catholic church" recognized by Jesus? The one Peter started in Jerusalem was...
Why the snub?

 

[Blackrook]

Acts of the Apostles ends before Peter's death so it's ridiculous to say the Bible doesn't mention the establishment of the Catholic Church.