Putin-Russia are winning the war.

[Rigby5]

Only to inform you: About 40% of the members of the SS not had been Germans in the 194x (time of the Holocaust). As far as I know Demjanjuk had been the only one of them who had been arrested. Reason: It was cheaper for the USA to bring this man to Germany instead to punish him on their own. And another information: Many Poles got the German citizenship after they had been conquered in world war 2.

We are not discussing Poles, Germans, or SS.
We are talking about Ukraine civilians who worked for the Germans, to man the death camps.
Witness testify that about 80% of those who manned the death camps were Ukrainian.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Nürnberg is a little more than Nazi nonsense.



Demjanjuk was an US-American problem which you was not able to solve so Germany had to solve it.

Demjanjuk was a German Problem because he was a guard in a NAZI Death Camp.

 

[Rigby5]

Yeah sure they are. Your patriotism to the communist is noted. Only months ago you hated anything about communism. Now you get in line behind and consequently support communism with the distinct reason you want Biden to fail.
You arseholes have no patriotism at all. You'll do and say anything to hate democrats. Youre a very poor example of American you treasonous piece of shit.

That is ignorant, because Russia has not been communist since 1992.
And the danger to the whole world is the US, invading innocent countries continually, like Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Panama, Grenada, Syria, etc.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

We are not discussing Poles, Germans, or SS.
We are talking about Ukraine civilians who worked for the Germans, to man the death camps.
Witness testify that about 80% of those who manned the death camps were Ukrainian.

They guarded the prisoners, they were not in command of the camps.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

That is ignorant, because Russia has not been communist since 1992.
And the danger to the whole world is the US, invading innocent countries continually, like Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Panama, Grenada, Syria, etc.

There you go fabricating complete bullshit again.

You should try to do better.

 

[Rigby5]

A clear lie. If someone likes to be informed about the Holocaust I suggest to use our German sources. In case of the Ukraine I know that Jews from Odessa who had to flee said very clear that the Ukraine was not ruled from Nazis.
Normally Nazis are a part of the subculture in many countries of the world. They like to provoke the mainstream.

You claimed I was lying but then failed to refute the obvious fact that the prisoners who escaped the death camps said that over80% of the people manning the death camps were Ukrainians.
Does not matter at all if they were Nazis, paid, traitors, etc.
It is a fact the Ukrainians ran the death camps.

 

[Rigby5]

And again, Nuremburg was selected as the site for all of the war crimes trials and both Camps in Ukraine were under German command and German Commanders.

Demjanjuk was a guard, not the commander.

No one said the commanders were Ukrainians, but that 80% of the guards were Ukrainian, according to the witnesses.

 

[zaangalewa]

Who said the war was over?

In such a moment I ask myselve sometimes "Are all US-Americans idiots?".

The western world hasn't made any such offers that I can find,

It exists in Europe no limit for the number of refugees from the Ukraine.

the ability to continue supplying and caring for just the 6 million or so displaced people and refugees is under serious strain.

What a nonsense.

Ukrainians on the whole don't want a way out, they want a way back in and something to fight with.

Very short, allknower: Death is an irreversible fact! Who is not able to bring his people to a save place is also not able to fight for them.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Wrong.
Not a single thing I wrote is wrong or unverified.
It is obvious because the only thing you contested was about German officers being in charge of the death camps.
And I never said the Ukrainians were in charge, but that the POWs said that about 80% of the guards were Ukrainians.
{...

Collaboration in Ukraine​

See also: Collaboration in German-occupied Ukraine
The National Geographic reported:


According to The Simon Wiesenthal Center (in January 2011) "Ukraine has, to the best of our knowledge, never conducted a single investigation of a local Nazi war criminal, let alone prosecuted a Holocaust perpetrator."[11]

According to the Israeli Holocaust historian Yitzhak Arad, "In January 1942 a company of Tatar volunteers was established in Simferopol under the command of Einsatzgruppe 11. This company participated in anti-Jewish manhunts and murder actions in the rural regions."[12]
...}

Ukrainian collaboration with Nazi Germany - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

None of this can be verified.

Rigby5 said:
I appreciate your general liberal view point, but you are dead wrong on this.

The Ukraine not only is guilty of stealing over $20 billion in oil and gas, murdering over 14,000 ethnic Russian civilians, violating treaties, trying to NATO nukes on Russia's border, etc., but also is the one who broke off negotiations, thus effectively declaring war.

The Ukraine is not innocent or nice.
It historically is a combination of the Tzars Cossacks, and traditional Polish aristocracy, which ravaged the whole area during the "Taras Bulba" era. And let us not forget that Ukrainians were notorious for running Hitler's death camps, like Demjanjuk at Sobibor.

Again, guards did not run the camps, the German Commanders did.

The Germans didn't trust the Ukrainians any more than they could throw them. They thought as little of Ukrainians as they did Russians.

They did certainly use them for their own evil purposes but as poorly as they were treated by the Russians the Ukrainians had to choose what they believed to be the lesser of two evils.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

No one said the commanders were Ukrainians, but that 80% of the guards were Ukrainian, according to the witnesses.

And again, the guards did not run the camps the commanders and their staff did.

 

[Rigby5]

Demjanjuk was a German Problem because he was a guard in a NAZI Death Camp.

Wrong, he is a Ukrainian problem because obviously there were a lot of Ukrainians who volunteered to work the death camps.

 

[Rigby5]

They guarded the prisoners, they were not in command of the camps.

No one said the Ukrainian guard "commanded".
Running the camp means manning it, do all the work.

 

[Orangecat]

Russia will likely have reduced the US to an impoverished indebted shithole by the time any shots are fired at the US.

Our own government is more to blame for that than Russia could ever be.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

In such a moment I ask myselve sometimes "Are all US-Americans idiots?".



It exists in Europe no limit for the number of refugees from the Ukraine.



What a nonsense.



Very short, allknower: Death is an irreversible fact! Who is not able to bring his people to a save place is also not able to fight for them.

Oh now I understand, you're just a hate filled babbling fool with no fucking clue what you're talking about.

There's a limit to how many refugees any country can support.

Very short, allknower: Death is an irreversible fact! Who is not able to bring his people to a save place is also not able to fight for them.

This of course is nonsensical drivel that in no way addresses what I said.

Most Ukrainians are not fleeing the country to hide like cowards. The men, if they leave at all, seem to mostly be doing what they can to get their women and children to safety and come back to fight.

 

[Rogue AI]

Who said the war was over?

The western world hasn't made any such offers that I can find, the ability to continue supplying and caring for just the 6 million or so displaced people and refugees is under serious strain.

Ukrainians on the whole don't want a way out, they want a way back in and something to fight with.

Fighting age males aren't allowed to leave. Are you implying women and children want to become combatants?

 

[Big Bend Texas]

No one said the Ukrainian guard "commanded".
Running the camp means manning it, do all the work.

And you would still be wrong.

The prisoners were forced to do most of the work, the guards were just there to maintain control, they were not running the camps nor were they performing the grunt labor necessary to keep them running.

 

[Rigby5]

None of this can be verified.

Again, guards did not run the camps, the German Commanders did.

The Germans didn't trust the Ukrainians any more than they could throw them. They thought as little of Ukrainians as they did Russians.

They did certainly use them for their own evil purposes but as poorly as they were treated by the Russians the Ukrainians had to choose what they believed to be the lesser of two evils.

Wrong.
The Ukrainian guards were the majority, so then obviously the Germans had to trust them.
And also obvious is that everything I said has been proven, that the Ukraine was convicted in the world court of stealing oil and gas in 2012, that the Ukraine violated 1992 treaties with Russia to not try to join alliances hostile to Russia, etc.
Clearly Zelensky constantly requested to join NATO, which would have resulted in nukes on Russia's border.
Which would be totally illegal and criminal.

 

[Rigby5]

And you would still be wrong.

The prisoners were forced to do most of the work, the guards were just there to maintain control, they were not running the camps nor were they performing the grunt labor necessary to keep them running.

That is not the point.
The point is that the people forcing the prisoners to murder others, were the Ukrainian guards.
More than any other group, the Ukrainians were collaborators with the death camps.

 

[zaangalewa]

Wrong, he is a Ukrainian problem because obviously there were a lot of Ukrainians who volunteered to work the death camps.

Replace "Ukrainians" with "Slaws" or "not-Germans" then you are more near to the truth in this context.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Fighting age males aren't allowed to leave. Are you implying women and children want to become combatants?

A lot of fighting aged males left and thence returned and there's a lot of women strapping it on and fighting too.

The men for the most part get them to the border or at least on a transport vehicle or train and then go back to do their duty.