CDZ POLL: An Abortion Kills a Child

[Hossfly]

From conception to birth a child is growing inside the womb until the doctor cuts the umbilical cord. It is only logical that at any time an abortion is performed the child has been killed. Scientists have videoed the instant an egg was fertilized by the sperm. At that instant there is a flash of a spark that begins life.The baby has been conceived. Therefore, without interruption, the baby will come to term. An abortion during the birth cycle is plain and simply murder. Anyone from the mother to the Supreme Court, who authorized and condones the murder of an innocent child will one day answer for their sin. That is my opinion and my belief.

 

[barn sour]

Yes, an abortion kills a child.
Sometimes the child stands no chance of survival when left in the mother's womb, but it is still a child.

 

[Chuz Life]

Opposition to abortion is based in part on the assumption that personhood is achieved at or shortly after fertilization of the egg. This interpretation of personhood arises from a contemporary application of the ancient doctrine of preformationism, a doctrine which holds that there is a preformed individual, in an ontological sense, within the developing entity. The assumption that the fertilized egg is unique in its capacity to develop into a human being is at least in part responsible for the opinions of those opposed to abortion. Yet, the uniqueness of the zygote in its capacity to develop into an adult organism is qualified by the discovery that development may be possible in a number of other ways. Consideration of the phenomena of cloning, parthenogenesis and chimerism can relieve moral ambiguity about abortion and may reduce opposition to that practice.

This thread is not about the opposition or support for abortions, though. It is about whether or not YOU think an abortion kills a child and it is about what YOU use as a basis to support that / YOUR conclusion.

 

[Chuz Life]

The question should be about if it takes a life...by using "child" it leaves semantical wiggle room, the argument will then get bogged down in fetus is/is not a child making the intent of the poll near impossible to achieve.

I think other members have answered quite nicely.

If you think the determination of whether or not the THING in the womb is actually a "child" or not is something that can only be argued with semantics? I disagree. However, you have this opportunity to make your case, if you are compelled to do so.

I (and others) will likely challenge you on that conclusion, but you are certainly welcome to TRY.

 

[Chuz Life]

I voted no
child noun, often attributive
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\ ˈchī(-ə)ld \
plural children\ ˈchil-drən , -dərn \
Definition of child (Entry 1 of 3)
1a: a young person especially between infancy and puberty

What about all of the other definitions that you have (intentionally?) omitted?


child
(chīld)
n. pl. chil·dren(chĭl′drən)
1.
a. A person between birth and puberty.
b. A person who has not attained maturity or the age of legal majority.
2.
a. An unborn infant; a fetus. <---------

 

[Chuz Life]

The argument for this thread is clear.

We all know it's alive and in the fetal stage of his or her life. Don't we?

That's why the use of "child" was not the right choice of words [even if correct], you end up debating that instead of "life".

Except.

Children have rights. Including a right to their life (supposedly.)

Life in the general sense does NOT have the same.

 

[Chuz Life]

It's a device by which you can frame the argument to your favor. Not too clever, but you'll fool some of the people some of the time.

I am not a factor in YOUR belief as to whether or not an abortion kills a child.

That is what this thread is about.

YOUR belief (is it a child or not) and what the basis for your conclusion, IS.

 

[Chuz Life]

As with most of these kinds of questions the rational answer is neither and both depending on the circumstances.

Personally I don't think of a 6 week old fetus as a child but I do think a 6 month old fetus is close enough to a child and i think a 7 - 9 month old fetus is a child

Interesting.

So, do you hold the view that Human Beings reproduce like frogs and butterflies do? Where the parents have sex and create one organism that only later becomes some other organism?

 

[Chuz Life]

So you are saying that a baby that is In Utero for 8 and a half months is NOT actually a living child UNTIL it's born?

As a matter of settled, accepted Constitutional law, yes.

Our nation's more than 130 Fetal Homicide laws say otherwise.

Are those laws not Constitutional too?

The Supreme Court seems to think they ARE Constitutional.

 

[Chuz Life]

When I imagined what this CDZ thread would be like, I actually imagined a back and forth INFORMATIVE discussion. . . Where one person would post "I believe and abortion kills a child, BECAUSE. . . " Then, the other side might / would respond in kind.

I can not imagine why that is too much to ask.

Probably because it's NOT a simple YES or NO answer?

Clearly, for all those who have taken the poll, it is simple enough. Also, nobody is being forced to answer the question, anyway.

It really is not.. CONSIDERED responses will draw distinctions between the gestation time being like 48 hours (as in PLAN B -- drug induced abortions) or as related to the "survivability" window, or as in pre-neural tube development.

I can argue with scientific facts, for why a child in the zygote, embryo or fetal stage of their life is a "child."

If someone believes they are NOT a child? That's fine. Just vote NO.

It really is THAT simple.

By a rigid "moment of conception" standard, you'd be depriving woman of the blessings of In Vitro fertilization, because not all fertilized embryoes are used and "murdered"..

I am ONLY asking a question about what people's belief / conclusions are.

How is that tantamount to "depriving" them of ANYthing?

So I believe it is murdering a baby if the abortion is done AFTER the window of survivalibility is past.. If that's too complicated an explanation, I'm sorry...

It's not complicated to me, because I can see that you are bringing things into the question that were not being asked about.

 

[Chuz Life]

The op is about whether or not an abortion kills a child. It is not about the recognition or non recognition of them in other situations. That is for another debate somewhere else.

Has to do with the definition of a child doesn't it? Is In vitro fertilization encouraging "murdering CHILDREN"??? It's a good question.,.

If you are asking me if "children" are killed in the process of IVF? MY answer is YES

You are certainly within your rights to disagree.

And/ OR, you can engage in a conversation with myself and others to argue the point. If you want to.

It's entirely up to you.

 

[there4eyeM]

What is the inevitable result of being born?
Who gives birth?

 

[TNHarley]

I voted no
child noun, often attributive
Save Word
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\ ˈchī(-ə)ld \
plural children\ ˈchil-drən , -dərn \
Definition of child (Entry 1 of 3)
1a: a young person especially between infancy and puberty

What about all of the other definitions that you have (intentionally?) omitted?


child
(chīld)
n. pl. chil·dren(chĭl′drən)
1.
a. A person between birth and puberty.
b. A person who has not attained maturity or the age of legal majority.
2.
a. An unborn infant; a fetus. <---------

Can you post a link to 2.a?

 

[Blues Man]

As with most of these kinds of questions the rational answer is neither and both depending on the circumstances.

Personally I don't think of a 6 week old fetus as a child but I do think a 6 month old fetus is close enough to a child and i think a 7 - 9 month old fetus is a child

Interesting.

So, do you hold the view that Human Beings reproduce like frogs and butterflies do? Where the parents have sex and create one organism that only later becomes some other organism?

A zygote is no more a child than a cheek cell.

While a zygote is genetically unique collection human cells it is not yet a child.

 

[Chuz Life]

I voted no
child noun, often attributive
Save Word
To save this word, you'll need to log in.

Log In
\ ˈchī(-ə)ld \
plural children\ ˈchil-drən , -dərn \
Definition of child (Entry 1 of 3)
1a: a young person especially between infancy and puberty

What about all of the other definitions that you have (intentionally?) omitted?


child
(chīld)
n. pl. chil·dren(chĭl′drən)
1.
a. A person between birth and puberty.
b. A person who has not attained maturity or the age of legal majority.
2.
a. An unborn infant; a fetus. <---------

Can you post a link to 2.a?

I already did.

Click on the bolded (hyperlinked) word "child."

 

[Chuz Life]

As with most of these kinds of questions the rational answer is neither and both depending on the circumstances.

Personally I don't think of a 6 week old fetus as a child but I do think a 6 month old fetus is close enough to a child and i think a 7 - 9 month old fetus is a child

Interesting.

So, do you hold the view that Human Beings reproduce like frogs and butterflies do? Where the parents have sex and create one organism that only later becomes some other organism?

A zygote is no more a child than a cheek cell.

While a zygote is genetically unique collection human cells it is not yet a child.

Are you willing to be questioned further on that?

 

[Blues Man]

As with most of these kinds of questions the rational answer is neither and both depending on the circumstances.

Personally I don't think of a 6 week old fetus as a child but I do think a 6 month old fetus is close enough to a child and i think a 7 - 9 month old fetus is a child

Interesting.

So, do you hold the view that Human Beings reproduce like frogs and butterflies do? Where the parents have sex and create one organism that only later becomes some other organism?

A zygote is no more a child than a cheek cell.

While a zygote is genetically unique collection human cells it is not yet a child.

Are you willing to be questioned further on that?

Sure why not?

An embryo is a potential child it is not a child

 

[Chuz Life]

As with most of these kinds of questions the rational answer is neither and both depending on the circumstances.

Personally I don't think of a 6 week old fetus as a child but I do think a 6 month old fetus is close enough to a child and i think a 7 - 9 month old fetus is a child

Interesting.

So, do you hold the view that Human Beings reproduce like frogs and butterflies do? Where the parents have sex and create one organism that only later becomes some other organism?

A zygote is no more a child than a cheek cell.

While a zygote is genetically unique collection human cells it is not yet a child.

Are you willing to be questioned further on that?

Sure why not?

An embryo is a potential child it is not a child

Do you concede that a "zygote" is an organism?

Do you concede that a human zygote is a "HUMAN organism?"

I ask you the same questions, reference embryos. Are embryos organisms?

Are human embryos "HUMAN organisms?"

 

[TNHarley]

As with most of these kinds of questions the rational answer is neither and both depending on the circumstances.

Personally I don't think of a 6 week old fetus as a child but I do think a 6 month old fetus is close enough to a child and i think a 7 - 9 month old fetus is a child

Interesting.

So, do you hold the view that Human Beings reproduce like frogs and butterflies do? Where the parents have sex and create one organism that only later becomes some other organism?

A zygote is no more a child than a cheek cell.

While a zygote is genetically unique collection human cells it is not yet a child.

Are you willing to be questioned further on that?

Ok thanks.
Well, I didnt leave that part out as you claim because that is the first time I ever seen a child being defined as a fetus.
First time ever.
I did notice when you click on the "medical" tab, it doesnt define it that way. I find that interesting.

 

[Chuz Life]

As with most of these kinds of questions the rational answer is neither and both depending on the circumstances.

Personally I don't think of a 6 week old fetus as a child but I do think a 6 month old fetus is close enough to a child and i think a 7 - 9 month old fetus is a child

Interesting.

So, do you hold the view that Human Beings reproduce like frogs and butterflies do? Where the parents have sex and create one organism that only later becomes some other organism?

A zygote is no more a child than a cheek cell.

While a zygote is genetically unique collection human cells it is not yet a child.

Are you willing to be questioned further on that?

Ok thanks.
Well, I didnt leave that part out as you claim because that is the first time I ever seen a child being defined as a fetus.
First time ever.
I did notice when you click on the "medical" tab, it doesnt define it that way. I find that interesting.

I haved sourced medical references in the past that refer to children in the womb as "children" too.

I can provide them later. (Just woke up, checked messages, laying back down)