CDZ POLL: An Abortion Kills a Child

[Blues Man]

As with most of these kinds of questions the rational answer is neither and both depending on the circumstances.

Personally I don't think of a 6 week old fetus as a child but I do think a 6 month old fetus is close enough to a child and i think a 7 - 9 month old fetus is a child

Interesting.

So, do you hold the view that Human Beings reproduce like frogs and butterflies do? Where the parents have sex and create one organism that only later becomes some other organism?

A zygote is no more a child than a cheek cell.

While a zygote is genetically unique collection human cells it is not yet a child.

Are you willing to be questioned further on that?

Sure why not?

An embryo is a potential child it is not a child

Do you concede that a "zygote" is an organism?

Do you concede that a human zygote is a "HUMAN organism?"

I ask you the same questions, reference embryos. Are embryos organisms?

Are human embryos "HUMAN organisms?"

I already stipulated that a human embryo is a genetically unique collection of human cells.

But those cells only have the potential to become a child they are not yet a child.

I could say a cheek cell kept alive in a petri dish is a human organism that does not make it a human being does it?

 

[there4eyeM]

What is the inevitable result of being born?
Who gives birth?

Thus, it is clear who decides.

 

[there4eyeM]

As with most of these kinds of questions the rational answer is neither and both depending on the circumstances.

Personally I don't think of a 6 week old fetus as a child but I do think a 6 month old fetus is close enough to a child and i think a 7 - 9 month old fetus is a child

Interesting.

So, do you hold the view that Human Beings reproduce like frogs and butterflies do? Where the parents have sex and create one organism that only later becomes some other organism?

A zygote is no more a child than a cheek cell.

While a zygote is genetically unique collection human cells it is not yet a child.

Are you willing to be questioned further on that?

Sure why not?

An embryo is a potential child it is not a child

Do you concede that a "zygote" is an organism?

Do you concede that a human zygote is a "HUMAN organism?"

I ask you the same questions, reference embryos. Are embryos organisms?

Are human embryos "HUMAN organisms?"

I already stipulated that a human embryo is a genetically unique collection of human cells.

But those cells only have the potential to become a child they are not yet a child.

I could say a cheek cell kept alive in a petri dish is a human organism that does not make it a human being does it?

It has a complete set of DNA.

 

[Blues Man]

As with most of these kinds of questions the rational answer is neither and both depending on the circumstances.

Personally I don't think of a 6 week old fetus as a child but I do think a 6 month old fetus is close enough to a child and i think a 7 - 9 month old fetus is a child

Interesting.

So, do you hold the view that Human Beings reproduce like frogs and butterflies do? Where the parents have sex and create one organism that only later becomes some other organism?

A zygote is no more a child than a cheek cell.

While a zygote is genetically unique collection human cells it is not yet a child.

Are you willing to be questioned further on that?

Sure why not?

An embryo is a potential child it is not a child

Do you concede that a "zygote" is an organism?

Do you concede that a human zygote is a "HUMAN organism?"

I ask you the same questions, reference embryos. Are embryos organisms?

Are human embryos "HUMAN organisms?"

I already stipulated that a human embryo is a genetically unique collection of human cells.

But those cells only have the potential to become a child they are not yet a child.

I could say a cheek cell kept alive in a petri dish is a human organism that does not make it a human being does it?

It has a complete set of DNA.

I already stipulated that.

A cheek cell has a complete set of DNA as well

 

[Chuz Life]

As with most of these kinds of questions the rational answer is neither and both depending on the circumstances.

Personally I don't think of a 6 week old fetus as a child but I do think a 6 month old fetus is close enough to a child and i think a 7 - 9 month old fetus is a child

Interesting.

So, do you hold the view that Human Beings reproduce like frogs and butterflies do? Where the parents have sex and create one organism that only later becomes some other organism?

A zygote is no more a child than a cheek cell.

While a zygote is genetically unique collection human cells it is not yet a child.

Are you willing to be questioned further on that?

Sure why not?

An embryo is a potential child it is not a child

Do you concede that a "zygote" is an organism?

Do you concede that a human zygote is a "HUMAN organism?"

I ask you the same questions, reference embryos. Are embryos organisms?

Are human embryos "HUMAN organisms?"

I already stipulated that a human embryo is a genetically unique collection of human cells.

But those cells only have the potential to become a child they are not yet a child.

I could say a cheek cell kept alive in a petri dish is a human organism that does not make it a human being does it?

Is that a yes or a no?

 

[Chuz Life]

As with most of these kinds of questions the rational answer is neither and both depending on the circumstances.

Personally I don't think of a 6 week old fetus as a child but I do think a 6 month old fetus is close enough to a child and i think a 7 - 9 month old fetus is a child

Interesting.

So, do you hold the view that Human Beings reproduce like frogs and butterflies do? Where the parents have sex and create one organism that only later becomes some other organism?

A zygote is no more a child than a cheek cell.

While a zygote is genetically unique collection human cells it is not yet a child.

Are you willing to be questioned further on that?

Sure why not?

An embryo is a potential child it is not a child

Do you concede that a "zygote" is an organism?

Do you concede that a human zygote is a "HUMAN organism?"

I ask you the same questions, reference embryos. Are embryos organisms?

Are human embryos "HUMAN organisms?"

I already stipulated that a human embryo is a genetically unique collection of human cells.

But those cells only have the potential to become a child they are not yet a child.

I could say a cheek cell kept alive in a petri dish is a human organism that does not make it a human being does it?

It has a complete set of DNA.

I already stipulated that.

A cheek cell has a complete set of DNA as well

Are you claiming that a cheek cell is an organism or that a human embryo is NOT an organism?

 

[Chuz Life]

What is the inevitable result of being born?
Who gives birth?

Thus, it is clear who decides.

The question for this thread is about whether or not it is a child.

Objectively.

If only we could all stay focused on that one thing.

 

[Flash]

Moon Bats don't understand that abortion is killing a human child because the assholes are just as ignorant of Biology as they are of Economics, History, Climate Science, Ethics, or the Constitution.

 

[Blues Man]

As with most of these kinds of questions the rational answer is neither and both depending on the circumstances.

Personally I don't think of a 6 week old fetus as a child but I do think a 6 month old fetus is close enough to a child and i think a 7 - 9 month old fetus is a child

Interesting.

So, do you hold the view that Human Beings reproduce like frogs and butterflies do? Where the parents have sex and create one organism that only later becomes some other organism?

A zygote is no more a child than a cheek cell.

While a zygote is genetically unique collection human cells it is not yet a child.

Are you willing to be questioned further on that?

Sure why not?

An embryo is a potential child it is not a child

Do you concede that a "zygote" is an organism?

Do you concede that a human zygote is a "HUMAN organism?"

I ask you the same questions, reference embryos. Are embryos organisms?

Are human embryos "HUMAN organisms?"

I already stipulated that a human embryo is a genetically unique collection of human cells.

But those cells only have the potential to become a child they are not yet a child.

I could say a cheek cell kept alive in a petri dish is a human organism that does not make it a human being does it?

Is that a yes or a no?

Define organism.

 

[Blues Man]

As with most of these kinds of questions the rational answer is neither and both depending on the circumstances.

Personally I don't think of a 6 week old fetus as a child but I do think a 6 month old fetus is close enough to a child and i think a 7 - 9 month old fetus is a child

Interesting.

So, do you hold the view that Human Beings reproduce like frogs and butterflies do? Where the parents have sex and create one organism that only later becomes some other organism?

A zygote is no more a child than a cheek cell.

While a zygote is genetically unique collection human cells it is not yet a child.

Are you willing to be questioned further on that?

Sure why not?

An embryo is a potential child it is not a child

Do you concede that a "zygote" is an organism?

Do you concede that a human zygote is a "HUMAN organism?"

I ask you the same questions, reference embryos. Are embryos organisms?

Are human embryos "HUMAN organisms?"

I already stipulated that a human embryo is a genetically unique collection of human cells.

But those cells only have the potential to become a child they are not yet a child.

I could say a cheek cell kept alive in a petri dish is a human organism that does not make it a human being does it?

It has a complete set of DNA.

I already stipulated that.

A cheek cell has a complete set of DNA as well

Are you claiming that a cheek cell is an organism or that a human embryo is NOT an organism?

I never said an embryo is not an organism.

I think we have to define our terms here

So tell me the definition of organism you are using

 

[Chuz Life]

Moon Bats don't understand that abortion is killing a human child because the assholes are just as ignorant of Biology as they are of Economics, History, Climate Science, Ethics, or the Constitution.

Cdz dude.

 

[Chuz Life]

I never said an embryo is not an organism.

Ok. But you haven't given me a straight answer on whether or not an embryo IS an organism, either.

I think we have to define our terms here

Wow. Okay.

I guess I shouldn't assume that everyone else knows what an organism is.

So tell me the definition of organism you are using.

Blues, I can provide you some definitions ( I never use only ONE source to make a determination) but I use more than a just dictionary to know what an organism is.

Don't you?

 

[Blues Man]

I never said an embryo is not an organism.

Ok. But you haven't given me a straight answer on whether or not an embryo IS an organism, either.

I think we have to define our terms here

Wow. Okay.

I guess I shouldn't assume that everyone else knows what an organism is.

So tell me the definition of organism you are using.

Blues, I can provide you some definitions ( never use only ONE to make a determination) but I use more than a just dictionary to know what an organism is.

Don't you?

You may have a different notion of what an organism is. I don't assume things.

If you define an organism as a single cell or a collection of cells that are capable of carrying out the processes of life in order to sustain itself then I could argue that no single human cell is an organism

If you are calling any cell or collection of cells an organism the argument changes doesn't it?

 

[Chuz Life]

. . . you haven't given me a straight answer on whether or not an embryo IS an organism, either.

You may have a different notion of what an organism is. I don't assume things.

Objectively, an organism is what it is.

Isn't it?

My "notions" have no bearing on the answer.

Especially, not on your own personal knowledge.

So, again. . . I am asking "objectively." Is a Human Embryo an organism? Or Not?

If you don't know? Just say so.

If you define an organism as a single cell or a collection of cells that are capable of carrying out the processes of life in order to sustain itself then I could argue that no single human cell is an organism

Ok.

What about an embryo?

If you are calling any cell or collection of cells an organism the argument changes doesn't it?

What argument?

Some organisms actually ARE single cells. Amoebas, for example. While, multicellular organisms, (mammals for example) actually do start out as a "single cell."

I think the definitions that best fit this biological aspect are the definitions that recognize that biological fact. Definitions that use the wording "has the ability or can develop the ability. . ." For example.

We can both agree that the developmental process and life cycle is not the same between a "cheek cell" and a human being in the Zygote, Embryo and / or Fetal stage of development.

Can't we?

 

[Blues Man]

. . . you haven't given me a straight answer on whether or not an embryo IS an organism, either.

You may have a different notion of what an organism is. I don't assume things.

Objectively, an organism is what it is.

Isn't it?

My "notions" have no bearing on the answer.

Especially, not on your own personal knowledge.

So, again. . . I am asking "objectively." Is a Human Embryo an organism? Or Not?

If you don't know? Just say so.

If you define an organism as a single cell or a collection of cells that are capable of carrying out the processes of life in order to sustain itself then I could argue that no single human cell is an organism

Ok.

What about an embryo?

If you are calling any cell or collection of cells an organism the argument changes doesn't it?

What argument?

Some organisms actually ARE single cells. Amoebas, for example. While, multicellular organisms, (mammals for example) actually do start out as a "single cell."

I think the definitions that best fit this biological aspect are the definitions that recognize that biological fact. Definitions that use the wording "has the ability or can develop the ability. . ." For example.

We can both agree that the developmental process and life cycle is not the same between a "cheek cell" and a human being in the Zygote, Embryo and / or Fetal stage of development.

Can't we?

I have already stipulated that an embryo is a genetically unique collection of human cells have I not?

And if you will review my very first post I also said that it is during gestation that the embryo becomes a child before it is born.

But is an embryo a child?

At what stage of development does a single cell zygote become a child?

You want to concentrate on the word organism instead.

So yes human cells can be organisms but that in no way means those human cells are the equivalent of a child or a human being

 

[Chuz Life]

I have already stipulated that an (human) embryo is a genetically unique collection of human cells have I not?

You have.

However, you have yet to answer the question as to whether or not that means it is an organism.

You seem to have an aversion to acknowledging that basic biological fact.

And if you will review my very first post I also said that it is during gestation that the embryo becomes a child before it is born.

Yes. That is what I have been trying to explore further, with you.

But is an embryo a child?

I think it is and it is clear that you don't think it is. That is why I am trying to get you to agree that a child in the zygote and embryo stage of their life is AT LEAST a "human organism."

So, can we agree on that? Or not?

At what stage of development does a single cell zygote become a child? You want to concentrate on the word organism instead.

In Context. Not "instead."

If you can not or will not agree that a human being in the zygote stage of their life, growth, etc is not at the very least a human "organism," there is no way that you will ever be convinced that it is a "child."

So yes human cells can be organisms but that in no way means those human cells are the equivalent of a child or a human being

You keep jumping ahead.

You said "yes, human cells can be organisms."

If some human cells CAN be organisms, doesn't that mean some of them already ARE human organisms?

 

[Blues Man]

I have already stipulated that an (human) embryo is a genetically unique collection of human cells have I not?

You have.

However, you have yet to answer the question as to whether or not that means it is an organism.

You seem to have an aversion to acknowledging that basic biological fact.

And if you will review my very first post I also said that it is during gestation that the embryo becomes a child before it is born.

Yes. That is what I have been trying to explore further, with you.

But is an embryo a child?

I think it is and it is clear that you don't think it is. That is why I am trying to get you to agree that a child in the zygote and embryo stage of their life is AT LEAST a "human organism."

So, can we agree on that? Or not?

At what stage of development does a single cell zygote become a child? You want to concentrate on the word organism instead.

In Context. Not "instead."

If you can not or will not agree that a human being in the zygote stage of their life, growth, etc is not at the very least a human "organism," there is no way that you will ever be convinced that it is a "child."

So yes human cells can be organisms but that in no way means those human cells are the equivalent of a child or a human being

You keep jumping ahead.

You said "yes, human cells can be organisms."

If some human cells CAN be organisms, doesn't that mean some of them already ARE human organisms?

Since I am left to guess at the definition of organism you are using I will humor you and say yes any cell is an organism therefore any human cell is a human organism.

But is a cell the equivalent of a human being? That after all is the question you posed.

 

[Chuz Life]

Since I am left to guess at the definition of organism you are using I will humor you and say yes any cell is an organism therefore any human cell is a human organism.

But is a cell the equivalent of a human being? That after all is the question you posed.

You have actually managed to miss the point, entirely.

I hope it was not intentionally.

The fact is (biologically) every cell is NOT an organism.

I hoped that you would understand that fact, when I asked for you to consider the differences between the life cycles of a "cheek cell" and a Human Being that is only in the "zygote" stage of his / her life.

 

[Blues Man]

Since I am left to guess at the definition of organism you are using I will humor you and say yes any cell is an organism therefore any human cell is a human organism.

But is a cell the equivalent of a human being? That after all is the question you posed.

You have actually managed to miss the point, entirely.

I hope it was not intentionally.

The fact is (biologically) every cell is NOT an organism.

I hoped that you would understand that fact, when I asked for you to consider the differences between the life cycles of a "cheek cell" and a Human Being that is only in the "zygote" stage of his / her life.

So now you decide to define your terms why didn't you just do that when I asked you?

And I know where you want to go with this.

You are trying to lead me into the argument that a zygote is a genetically unique human organism that will if all goes as specified become a child therefore the zygote should be treated as a child.

Am I wrong?

 

[Chuz Life]

So now you decide to define your terms why didn't you just do that when I asked you?

I have no idea about what terms you think I have defined. The biological facts, definitions and terms are what they are. It is not in MY terms that I make my conclusions on. It is by the biological terms that are already established in the reference materials that are equally available and (I think) applicable to all.

And I know where you want to go with this.

You are trying to lead me into the argument that a zygote is a genetically unique human organism

True enough but I am open to evidence you might have that might lead me to conclude otherwise.

that will if all goes as specified become a child therefore the zygote should be treated as a child.

False.

Once you agree that a human in the zygote stage of your life IS a human organism. . . We can move on to the next line of questions and you will ser how your above comment is wrong.