Obama administration is complicit in the new and horrifyingly bloody crackdown

[georgephillip]

Possibly the prime reason why this world is so imperfect stems from the fact that every government ever devised exists primarily to serve the interests of its richest citizens?

thank you Howard Zinn...hes dead George, you know that right?

and you are only half wrong, not half right, but half wrong, do you understand why I made that delineation?

No.
Please explain why you believe Adam Smith was mistaken when he wrote about the principal architects of policy which, in his day, were the merchants and manufacturers who made certain that their own interests are "most peculiarly attended to" no matter what the effect on others: "All for ourselves and nothing for other people seems in every age of the world to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind."

 

[georgephillip]

Possibly the prime reason why this world is so imperfect stems from the fact that every government ever devised exists primarily to serve the interests of its richest citizens?

Oh, I see your a fucking communist. Why do you hate the successful?

Do realize sitting on ones ass or bowing to a rock 5 times a day won't feed the world.

Is the House of Saud successful because of Goldman Sachs or the Pentagon or the Republicans or the Democrats or because millions of impoverished Muslims think bowing to a rock will make their next life better? How are you defining "successful?"

 

[georgephillip]

You're talking about stuff 40 years ago.

You want to talk history, let's talk about the history of progressivism, and the Nazi party...let's talk about how looking the other way results in human rights violations and eternal damnation from the civilized world. Let's talk about pretending it's okay to raze churches and slaughter innocents NOW because it may or may not have happened in the past. Let's talk about China, and North Korea, and Russia...where people died (and continue to die) and philosophical pukes sat on their hands and said there was a good *reason* for it and we shouldn't get involved.

If you want to talk history, let's talk history. Real history. Not namby pamby "oooh boooshhhh" and "ooooo reagan" and "republicans are big dodo heads".

Give me a break.

Let's talk US history...

"1798-1800 France
Undeclared naval war against France, marines land in Puerto Plata.

1801-1805 Tripoli War with Tripoli (Libya), called "First Barbary War".
1806 Spanish Mexico Military force enters Spanish territory in headwaters of the Rio Grande.
1806-1810 Spanish and French in Caribbean US naval vessels attack French and Spanish shipping in the Caribbean.
1810 Spanish West Florida Troops invade and seize Western Florida, a Spanish possession.
1812 Spanish East Florida Troops seize Amelia Island and adjacent territories.
1812 Britain War of 1812, includes naval and land operations.
1813 Marquesas Island Forces seize Nukahiva and establish first US naval base in the Pacific.
1814 Spanish (East Florida) Troops seize Pensacola in Spanish East Florida.
1814-1825 French, British and Spanish in Caribbean US naval squadron engages French, British and Spanish shipping in the Caribbean.
1815 Algiers and Tripoli US naval fleet under Captain Stephen Decatur wages "Second Barbary War" in North Africa.
1816-1819 Spanish East Florida Troops attack and seize Nicholls' Fort, Amelia Island and other strategic locations. Spain eventually cedes East Florida to the US..."

US Interventions

the point of that post alludes me George...

I'm assuming Koshergirl is a citizen of the greatest purveyor of violence on the planet (in all history?). When she whines about authentic human rights abuses in Chinese, Russian, and Muslim history while ignoring greater abuses committed by her country thousands of miles from its homeland, her morality eludes me.

 

[Old Rocks]

Obama will never take a stand against human rights violations, as he considers them collateral. His complete disregard for life continues to be sickening:

"After a prolonged and embarrassing delay, the State Department announced that it had chosen not to determine whether a coup had taken place, and Secretary of State John F. Kerry declared that Egypt’s military was “restoring democracy.”
Because of those decisions, the Obama administration is complicit in the new and horrifyingly bloody crackdown launched Wednesday by the de facto regime against tens of thousands of protesters who had camped out in two Cairo squares. At least 278 people were reported killed, including many women and children. Chaos erupted around Egypt as angry mobs stormed Christian churches, which went largely unprotected by security forces. "

"This refusal to take a firm stand against massive violations of human rights is as self-defeating for the United States as it is unconscionable. Continued U.S. support for the Egyptian military is helping to push the country toward a new dictatorship rather than a restored democracy."
Egypt erupts as security forces attack Morsi supporters - The Washington Post

LOL. Weren't you one of the people screaming about the fact that the Brotherhood won in the elections in Egypt? And now that the military has taken over, you are screaming about that. In fact, no matter what happens where, you are going to blame it on the President.

And, in the meantime, the GOP and the "Conservatives" continue the paint themselves into a corner with their anti-science, anti-women, and anti-minority rhetoric.

 

[Old Rocks]

This would be like Obama cracking down on a radical Christian sect that hates gays, woman and science.

The muslim brotherhood protesting are nuts.

But Mathew, look at the 'Conservatives' on this board and what they are saying. The Brotherhood is now their new posterboy.

In the Mid-East there is almost never a choice between bad and good, just choices between terrible and even worse. Fact of life.

 

[Antares]

Obama will never take a stand against human rights violations, as he considers them collateral. His complete disregard for life continues to be sickening:

"After a prolonged and embarrassing delay, the State Department announced that it had chosen not to determine whether a coup had taken place, and Secretary of State John F. Kerry declared that Egypt’s military was “restoring democracy.”
Because of those decisions, the Obama administration is complicit in the new and horrifyingly bloody crackdown launched Wednesday by the de facto regime against tens of thousands of protesters who had camped out in two Cairo squares. At least 278 people were reported killed, including many women and children. Chaos erupted around Egypt as angry mobs stormed Christian churches, which went largely unprotected by security forces. "

"This refusal to take a firm stand against massive violations of human rights is as self-defeating for the United States as it is unconscionable. Continued U.S. support for the Egyptian military is helping to push the country toward a new dictatorship rather than a restored democracy."
Egypt erupts as security forces attack Morsi supporters - The Washington Post

LOL. Weren't you one of the people screaming about the fact that the Brotherhood won in the elections in Egypt? And now that the military has taken over, you are screaming about that. In fact, no matter what happens where, you are going to blame it on the President.

And, in the meantime, the GOP and the "Conservatives" continue the paint themselves into a corner with their anti-science, anti-women, and anti-minority rhetoric.

Don't sweat it pops, you'll be dead soon....old age catches up with everyone.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

You have three choices under Islam...

Capitulate (Convert)

Pay a tax (in order NOT to be killed...SLAVERY)

Refuse and be killed.

Some choice.

You have three questions:



I would guess, quite a bit



god knows, overall? probably hundreds

Why do elected Republicans AND Democrats support both racist monarchies?

becasue the world is not a perfect place and humans are self interest driven.

The "tax" on non-Muslims is a historical thing, not a current one. Saudi Arabia does not have a jizya. The last time an actual jizya tax existed was during the Ottoman Empire.

 

[jgarden]

How Pelosi Saved Boehner's You-Know-What | Mother Jones
Aug 3, 2011 - (Boehner and Pelosi both were supporting this bill, albeit Pelosi quite ..... She and her party saved the US from worldwide embarrassment and ...

Another Weeper Boehner epic embarrassment - 'Plan B' vote ...
Dec 20, 2012 - Remember the whole debt ceiling debacle in the summer of 2011 that exposed what an inept leader Weeper Boehner was? That seems like so

Tea party activists cheer revolt that embarrassed GOP House ...
Dec 24, 2012 - House Speaker John Boehner of Ohio. ... even get a majority of our own people to support policies that we're putting forward," LaTourette said.

The House GOP revolts: John Boehner officially has no ... - The Week
Jun 20, 2013 - The embarrassing defeat for Boehner comes one year after he opted to ... his "Plan B" budget bill last December for lack of Republican support.

Farm bill debacle shows John Boehner needs Nancy Pelosi
Jun 20, 2013 - In another embarrassment for House Speaker John Boehner, the farm bill ... given its inability to count on the support of House conservatives.

Obama administration is complicit in the new and horrifyingly bloody crackdown

For a group that has embarrassed and repeatedly failed to support its own Speaker of the House, conservatives have awfully high expectations when it comes to others - but not themselves!

If Obama says nothing, conservatives will accuse him of supporting a military coup overthrowing a democratically elected government and condoning violence - if he supports Mohamed Morsi and the Moslem Brotherhood, they''ll accuse him of supporting his Islamic fundamentalist "buddies," who are firebombing Christian churches.

 

[tinydancer]

Obama will never take a stand against human rights violations, as he considers them collateral. His complete disregard for life continues to be sickening:

"After a prolonged and embarrassing delay, the State Department announced that it had chosen not to determine whether a coup had taken place, and Secretary of State John F. Kerry declared that Egypt’s military was “restoring democracy.”
Because of those decisions, the Obama administration is complicit in the new and horrifyingly bloody crackdown launched Wednesday by the de facto regime against tens of thousands of protesters who had camped out in two Cairo squares. At least 278 people were reported killed, including many women and children. Chaos erupted around Egypt as angry mobs stormed Christian churches, which went largely unprotected by security forces. "

"This refusal to take a firm stand against massive violations of human rights is as self-defeating for the United States as it is unconscionable. Continued U.S. support for the Egyptian military is helping to push the country toward a new dictatorship rather than a restored democracy."
Egypt erupts as security forces attack Morsi supporters - The Washington Post

LOL. Weren't you one of the people screaming about the fact that the Brotherhood won in the elections in Egypt? And now that the military has taken over, you are screaming about that. In fact, no matter what happens where, you are going to blame it on the President.

And, in the meantime, the GOP and the "Conservatives" continue the paint themselves into a corner with their anti-science, anti-women, and anti-minority rhetoric.

Don't sweat it pops, you'll be dead soon....old age catches up with everyone.

hey hey hey kiddo I'd like to think they'll be kicking and draggining me across the finish line sweet heart....

 

[tinydancer]

How Pelosi Saved Boehner's You-Know-What | Mother Jones
Aug 3, 2011 - (Boehner and Pelosi both were supporting this bill, albeit Pelosi quite ..... She and her party saved the US from worldwide embarrassment and ...

Another Weeper Boehner epic embarrassment - 'Plan B' vote ...
Dec 20, 2012 - Remember the whole debt ceiling debacle in the summer of 2011 that exposed what an inept leader Weeper Boehner was? That seems like so

Tea party activists cheer revolt that embarrassed GOP House ...
Dec 24, 2012 - House Speaker John Boehner of Ohio. ... even get a majority of our own people to support policies that we're putting forward," LaTourette said.

The House GOP revolts: John Boehner officially has no ... - The Week
Jun 20, 2013 - The embarrassing defeat for Boehner comes one year after he opted to ... his "Plan B" budget bill last December for lack of Republican support.

Farm bill debacle shows John Boehner needs Nancy Pelosi
Jun 20, 2013 - In another embarrassment for House Speaker John Boehner, the farm bill ... given its inability to count on the support of House conservatives.

Obama administration is complicit in the new and horrifyingly bloody crackdown

For a political party that has embarrassed and repeatedly "hung its own House leader out to dry," conservatives have awfully high expectations when it comes to others!

If Obama says nothing conservatives will accused him of supporting a military coup overthrowing a democratically elected government - if he supports the Moslem Brotherhood, they''ll accuse him of supporting his Islamic fundamentalist "buddies," who are firebombing Christian churches.

What the hell is your post about?

We expect better than garbage here. This is the USMB board. Take no prisoners but great chat.

We rock. And well hopefully you will meet our expectations...

Now from the get go we knew who Obama was supporting.

Check out Morsi. His American ties. He's an academic from America. Whoopsies.

 

[tinydancer]

How Pelosi Saved Boehner's You-Know-What | Mother Jones
Aug 3, 2011 - (Boehner and Pelosi both were supporting this bill, albeit Pelosi quite ..... She and her party saved the US from worldwide embarrassment and ...

Another Weeper Boehner epic embarrassment - 'Plan B' vote ...
Dec 20, 2012 - Remember the whole debt ceiling debacle in the summer of 2011 that exposed what an inept leader Weeper Boehner was? That seems like so

Tea party activists cheer revolt that embarrassed GOP House ...
Dec 24, 2012 - House Speaker John Boehner of Ohio. ... even get a majority of our own people to support policies that we're putting forward," LaTourette said.

The House GOP revolts: John Boehner officially has no ... - The Week
Jun 20, 2013 - The embarrassing defeat for Boehner comes one year after he opted to ... his "Plan B" budget bill last December for lack of Republican support.

Farm bill debacle shows John Boehner needs Nancy Pelosi
Jun 20, 2013 - In another embarrassment for House Speaker John Boehner, the farm bill ... given its inability to count on the support of House conservatives.

Obama administration is complicit in the new and horrifyingly bloody crackdown

For a group that has embarrassed and repeatedly failed to support its own Speaker of the House, conservatives have awfully high expectations when it comes to others - but not themselves!

If Obama says nothing, conservatives will accuse him of supporting a military coup overthrowing a democratically elected government and condoning violence - if he supports Mohamed Morsi and the Moslem Brotherhood, they''ll accuse him of supporting his Islamic fundamentalist "buddies," who are firebombing Christian churches.

Come on libs.

Is he playing cards again?

 

[Trajan]

thank you Howard Zinn...hes dead George, you know that right?

and you are only half wrong, not half right, but half wrong, do you understand why I made that delineation?

No.
Please explain why you believe Adam Smith was mistaken when he wrote about the principal architects of policy which, in his day, were the merchants and manufacturers who made certain that their own interests are "most peculiarly attended to" no matter what the effect on others: "All for ourselves and nothing for other people seems in every age of the world to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind."

I have already said George humans are naturally self interested, if you need adam smith to make a case for that I don't see the point, I suspect your point is there is some inveterate harm intended in this, as in "vile" ....... Humans are naturally selected and cohorted via talent drive discipline....and as far as; ' no matter what the effect on others' is a highly fungible term, people want things, manufacturers then merchants provide them, if they harm those they sell or supply [to] they won't have them as customers etc., its really a symbiotic relationship. They need each other.

Your issue is with human nature, and you're barking at the moon, we have been thru this before , a few times. its a cyclical and closed loop argument.

The discussion is the middle east and the obama admin. machinations there by, not the nature of man George, thats been settled.

 

[georgephillip]

No.
Please explain why you believe Adam Smith was mistaken when he wrote about the principal architects of policy which, in his day, were the merchants and manufacturers who made certain that their own interests are "most peculiarly attended to" no matter what the effect on others: "All for ourselves and nothing for other people seems in every age of the world to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind."

I have already said George humans are naturally self interested, if you need adam smith to make a case for that I don't see the point, I suspect your point is there is some inveterate harm intended in this, as in "vile" ....... Humans are naturally selected and cohorted via talent drive discipline....and as far as; ' no matter what the effect on others' is a highly fungible term, people want things, manufacturers then merchants provide them, if they harm those they sell or supply [to] they won't have them as customers etc., its really a symbiotic relationship. They need each other.

Your issue is with human nature, and you're barking at the moon, we have been thru this before , a few times. its a cyclical and closed loop argument.

The discussion is the middle east and the obama admin. machinations there by, not the nature of man George, thats been settled.

Human nature continues to evolve, Trajan, and most normal human beings don't allow their self-interest to morph into greed, which is exactly how Smith's "Vile Masters of Mankind" have taken control of every government since "civilization" began.

Obama is merely the latest in a long line of psychopaths the rich employ to facilitate ever larger private fortunes primarily by socializing the cost of war while privatizing its profits. Since every elected Republican AND Democrat currently serving in DC depends on the richest 1% of US voters to fund their campaigns and retirements, the Middle East and Obama's machinations are at least as subject to today's Vile Masters as India was during Smith's lifetime.

That will change or humanity will vanish from the page of time.

 

[georgephillip]

Actually, every government ever devised eventually exists primarily to serve the interests of itself. It is just that the rationalization process is slow sometimes.

Government:

"A government is the system by which a state or community is governed..."

"In the case of its broad associative definition, government normally consists of legislators, administrators, and arbitrators. Government is the means by which state policy is enforced, as well as the mechanism for determining the policy of the state..."

Rationalization:

"In psychology and logic, rationalization (also known as making excuses[1]) is an unconscious defense mechanism in which perceived controversial behaviors or feelings are logically justified and explained in a rational or logical manner in order to avoid any true explanation, and are made consciously tolerable – or even admirable and superior – by plausible means.[2] Rationalization encourages irrational or unacceptable behavior, motives, or feelings and often involves ad hoc hypothesizing..."

IMHO, the richest citizens of every state yet devised have controlled the means by which state policy is determined and enforced. Over the last forty years the richest 1% of US citizens have used state policy to increase their wealth at the expense of 90% of working Americans. Government serves the self interest of the rich in two ways: it provides the mechanism to effect tax, trade, and war policies favorable to the 1% and it serves as a convenient whipping boy when those policies disadvantage the majority of voters.

Change is impossible as long as most US voters continue "choosing" their Representatives and Senators from either the Democrat OR Republican parties.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Rich Egyptian generals are supplied military HARDWARE and EQUIPMENT they use to murder and maim impoverished civilians. Obviously, inbred authoritarians who haven't stopped beating their children yet would support such correctly working things.

Actually, the ones killing civilians and children are the Muslim Brotherhood - with the Military stepping in to stop them. I believe you Communists are unhappy that Muslim Brotherhood leader Morsi was ousted, yes?

 

[Katzndogz]

Things will really get interesting when Mubarak is released.

Egypt's ousted Mubarak could be freed this week

He may be old, but he will put a stop to the muslim brotherhood nonsense in record time.

 

[Katzndogz]

Rich Egyptian generals are supplied military HARDWARE and EQUIPMENT they use to murder and maim impoverished civilians. Obviously, inbred authoritarians who haven't stopped beating their children yet would support such correctly working things.

Actually, the ones killing civilians and children are the Muslim Brotherhood - with the Military stepping in to stop them. I believe you Communists are unhappy that Muslim Brotherhood leader Morsi was ousted, yes?

The word RICH prefacing "generals" is supposed to make us think they are automatically guilty of something.

 

[Trajan]

the Egyptian military is a biz. to, to an extent, they control grain distribution, sell it, and manage their own finances.

Its not healthy for the economy of the country, but well, it too late to rethink it, it appears to me Al-Sisi is intent on destroying the MB, putting them back in the box Mubarak had them in....

The execution of Egyptian police by 'militants' in Sinai was bound to come, the Sinai has been undergoing a quiet fundie militarization for a while now.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Can you imagine decades from now when Historians look back on this Presidency, what will go through their minds?? Like, WTF??! The people elected a Community Organizer in the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression?????

Actually the peope did not elect him.He was put into office by the establishment as all presidents are.

contrary to what americans have been taught,we dont elect these people and put them into office.

They are SELECTED for us and put in there by the establishment.Voting is a waste of time.Elections are rigged all the time with voting machines.There is a book out there that documents all this everybody should read called VOTESCAM.It details and explains it all.

Obama was the perfect new puppet for them to put in office.The man is not only a foreigner,but he has surrounded himself with known communists.The perfect man they needed to speed up their new world order agenda they have against us.

 

[georgephillip]

Rich Egyptian generals are supplied military HARDWARE and EQUIPMENT they use to murder and maim impoverished civilians. Obviously, inbred authoritarians who haven't stopped beating their children yet would support such correctly working things.

Actually, the ones killing civilians and children are the Muslim Brotherhood - with the Military stepping in to stop them. I believe you Communists are unhappy that Muslim Brotherhood leader Morsi was ousted, yes?

No, Mussolini.
Communists are unhappy because rich generals continue killing poor Egyptians for Wall Street.

"For the past few days, Egypt's main Arabic-language state television stations have displayed a new logo in the corner of the screen.

"For the first time ever, it is a message in English. It says 'Egypt fighting terrorism'.

"It is in red, black and white, the colours of the Egyptian flag.

"Another television channel, the private station, ON TV, has started provided simultaneous English translations of its news broadcasts and talk shows.

"Its coverage, which is overwhelming pro-army, is clearly aimed at an international audience.

"The interim government and the army appear to have launched a major public relations offensive - aimed at the West."

BBC News - Egyptian media in PR offensive targeting the West

Only devout authoritarians would argue that rich generals would ever $top the killing regardless of whatever fig-leaf politician occupies the pre$idential palace.