Must we thank (1) Jefferson’s God, or (2) Trump’s God or (3) no God or (4) or just the founders themselves

[elektra]

Sure they do but in such small numbers they would be lost in the wilderness of political importance without the huge numbers of the white Christian extremist Trump voter base.

More bullshit by you again, more of your bigotry,

 

[elektra]

if it is a life issue this cannot be happening.

NFBW220818-#4,913

Viability - CarsomyrPlusSix220818-#4,912 “it’s just oh so fucking irrelevant,”

NFBW: that’s odd because 31 states ban abortion at viability or within the timeframe that viability occurs.

• 9 states ban abortion.
• 4 states ban abortion at 6 weeks LMP.
• 1 state bans abortion at 15 weeks LMP.
• 9 states ban abortion at 22 weeks LMP (20 weeks postfertilization in state law) on the unscientific grounds that a fetus can feel pain at that point.
• 4 states ban abortion at 24 weeks LMP.
• 17 states impose a ban at viability.
• 1 state imposes a ban in the third trimester (beginning at 25 weeks LMP)
• State Bans on Abortion Throughout Pregnancy

END2208180149

NFBW: Dobbs made it a medical procedure ban which died not prevent men with means like Herschel Walker to send his knocked up girl friend to go to a state that respects a woman’s right to choose.

END2210052237

Focus, this is not about hershel walker

 

[elektra]

Jefferson Madison and Washington and Baptist Churches in Virginia and Massachusetts founded freedom of conscience and embedded it in the Bill if Rights. The Baptists sent a letter to George Washington. It read:

“When the Constitution first made its appearance in Virginia, we, as a society, feared that the liberty of conscience, dearer to us than property or life, was not sufficiently secured. Perhaps our jealousies were heightened by the usage we received in Virginia, under the regal government, when mobs, fines, bonds and prisons were our frequent repast….”

<strong>Baptists and the Constitution</strong>

President Washington sent a gracious reply saying: “I have often expressed my sentiments that any man, conducting himself as a good citizen and being accountable to God alone for his religious opinions, ought to be protected in worshiping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience.” He then promised his “endeavors to advance their prosperity.”

BaptIsts are credited with getting “freedom of conscience”’in the Bill of Rights with no help from any other Teligious denomination,

Many Anti/abortion Protestant Trump Christians belong to churches that endorsed the passage of Roe v Wade. Including Baptists.

Southern Baptists were strong Trump supporters until a split took place in 2021 over extreme right wing race issues.

Why the Southern Baptist Convention finally rejected Trumpism​

Donald Trump in front of St. John's Episcopal Church in Washington, D.C. on June 1, 2020, Wikimedia Commons
Alex Henderson
June 19, 2021

the Southern Baptist Convention, recalled that their 1971 convention had backed laws permitting abortion in cases such as “rape, incest, clear evidence of severe fetal deformity, and carefully ascertained evidence of the likelihood of damage to the emotional, mental, and physical health of the mother.” So the Southern Baptists essentially endorsed abortion on demand. A Baptist Press report two years later after Roe enthused that the court decision had “advanced the cause of religious liberty, human equality and justice.”​

​

Protestants and Abortion - The American Spectator | USA News and PoliticsThe American Spectator | USA News and Politics

Last week about 100,000 or more marched in the annual March for Life in Washington, D.C. This year they commemorated 40 years since the 1973 Supreme Court decision constitutionalizing abortion on demand. Supporting the march and the pro-life cause were...

spectator.org

​

The head of the Southern Baptist public policy agency in the 1970s, then called the Christian Life Commission, backed government-funded abortions and supported, along with United Methodists and other Protestant denominational agencies, the Religious Coalition for Abortion Rights.​

​

NFBW; FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE became a right that was based on No founding fathers religious belief or Christianity - it came from rational minds prevailing over irrational minds of religion.

END2210060249

Another long reach by you, when did anybody vote for roe vs wade? Nobody did so whatever source you read is propaganda.

The power to decide abortion is not in the constitution, hence it falls to the states.

The Federal government has over reached its authority. Not just on this issue but many.

Irrational over rational? More bullshit.

You should read some books instead of a sentence in a google link.

 

[elektra]

elektra221005-#3 “Abortion, something the founders never fathomed.. Abortion not a right.”

NFBW221005-#11

Does this make any sense: Abortion, something the founders never thoroughly understood. Abortion not a right.” Be honest,

END2210060042

Honestly, those are your words, not mine.

So your contention is the founders did invision planned parenthood performing abortions on our children, at 9 months, without being in a hospital, without the parents knowing. The founders fathomed, exactly that?

The founders fathomed every possible scenario?

And the Jefferson example you gave, jefferson called the indians barbarous. Jefferson stated barbarous indians performed abortion. Resulting nit natural birth rates. If I can paraphrase.

Care to quote the entire passage?

 

[surada]

Now we finally get somewhere, your skull is very thick.

Who told you, that you must thank, Trump's god?

The founding, Trump has more in common, follows our founding, followed the Constitution than any other president other than Ronald Reagan, since before World War 2.

Where does anybody demand you thank God or Trump, and your idea that Trump worships or has faith in anything except, God, is simply a whole bunch of crap.

Now that you finally stated a bit clear, what your thinking is, I got to say that is one extremely false premise you setup, which you completely fail to substantiate let alone state clearly.

Abortion wasn't illegal in the US until the mid 1800s.

 

[elektra]

Abortion wasn't illegal in the US until the mid 1800s.

1821 is mid 1800's?

 

[easyt65]

In the wake of Joe Biden begging Saudi for oil only to have them CUT production - CAPTION CONTEST:

1. 'We REALLY need more oil.'
-- 'Then why did you sell part of your National Oil Reserve to China?'

2. 'I thought we had a deal. You screwed me politically at home and on the national stage.'
-- 'I know - I call it 'The Khashoggi'.

3. 'What are we going to do without more oil before the mid-terms?'
-- 'Consider this a 'Forced Transition'. The American people will be much better off after the mid-terms ... the Democrats, not so much.'

 

[surada]

Honestly, those are your words, not mine.

So your contention is the founders did invision planned parenthood performing abortions on our children, at 9 months, without being in a hospital, without the parents knowing. The founders fathomed, exactly that?

The founders fathomed every possible scenario?

And the Jefferson example you gave, jefferson called the indians barbarous. Jefferson stated barbarous indians performed abortion. Resulting nit natural birth rates. If I can paraphrase.

Care to quote the entire passage?

This is bs.. most abortions are earlier than 16 weeks. 9 months is a full term pregnancy.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

The religious beliefs of the Founding Fathers are tied to the creation of the Bill of Rights aka the 1st ten Amendments to the Constitution.

NFBW: The Religious part of the First Amendment reads, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;”

You must be saying whitehall therefore that to boil it down to the (no governmental prohibition of the individuals right to the free exercise of religion) part, that this particular restriction on government harm or intrusion , is a result of the varied religious beliefs of the Founding Fathers. To be precise in our language here, can you define for the readers what exactly you mean by the “founding fathers” and is there a brief and common summary of their contradictory religious beliefs leading up to the framing of the first Ten Amendments to the Constitution?

And also whitehall do you agree or disagree with Mashmont on any of this Christian Nation hoopla ?

Mashmont #664 “First Amendment needs tweaked on the religion part. The framers unwittingly enabled atheism to be the governing religion. Perhaps they couldn't foresee atheism would be designated a religion by the Supreme Court.”

Here is a recap of my position. It's irrefutable. We will refer back to these six ironclad points whenever somebody repeats already refuted stuff.

1) It is impossible to separate church and state over issues like abortion and gay marriage, so we shouldn't try.
2) When you do try to leave Christianity out of legislation, you end up with atheism, which is exactly what American government is becoming and pushing.
3) No regimes in world history have ever been so violent, oppressive, murderous, and dictatorial as atheist regimes.
4) Christian governments are free, open, benign, and benevolent.
5) Therefore, the only logical solution is to declare right now, we are a Christian country.
6) Becoming a Christian country doesn't mean people have to become Christian; it just means no law will violate Christian moral teaching.

END2210060901

And oh by the way elektra you should offer your thought on this post as well - the more nonbelligerent “thoughts” questions and answers the merrier on this thread.

And whitehall if you were to thank God for the blessing of creating America which God would that be, As for Mashmont I am quite certain he thanks the Personal God and creator that sits atop the magnificent throne of all Christendom known as the Greatest religion there is, was and ever will be / Catholicism.

END2210060921

 

[elektra]

This is bs.. most abortions are earlier than 16 weeks. 9 months is a full term pregnancy.

All democrats voted for it in congess, except 1

Yes, 9 months is full term. Democrats have become insane.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Yes, 9 months is full term. Democrats have become insane.

All Dem legislators are compliant with viability being at around 24/ 28 weeks which is plenty of time for a woman to choose to terminate her pregnancy.

Permissible abortions after 28 weeks are not freely elective abortions by a mother who changes her mind at the last hours - It is a medical crisis situation involving a necessary best outcome by medical professionals directly involved with a patient.

@ekektra needs a diversion and unfortunately we can’t waste time on his uninformed bogus diversion. When things settle down I will be guaranteed most to address the factual reality of late term abortions then.

 

[elektra]

All Dem legislators are compliant with viability being at around 24/ 28 weeks which is plenty of time for a woman to choose to terminate her pregnancy.

Permissible abortions after 28 weeks are not freely elective abortions by a mother who changes her mind at the last hours - It is a medical crisis situation involving a necessary best outcome by medical professionals directly involved with a patient.

@ekektra needs a diversion and unfortunately we can’t waste time on his uninformed bogus diversion. When things settle down I will be guaranteed most to address the factual reality of late term abortions then.

Democrats voted for abortion at 9 months.
That is fact.

Youngest premmie is niw 21 weeks.

Viability? All babies are viable if you do not abort them.

Again with terminology that does not reflect reality.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Viability? All babies are viable if you do not abort them.

Are you saying a one-celled zygote with no brain lungs or heart is a viable baby?

 

[elektra]

Are you saying a one-celled zygote with no brain lungs or heart is a viable baby?

Zygotes, are 99.999999999999% viable.

Another false premise in this failed OP

And, mr mental midget, zygotes are too early in development to have lungs, a brain, or heart

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Zygotes, are 99.999999999999% viable.

OK. If removed from mom it will breathe on its own and continue to grow - it’s not murder then is it?

 

[elektra]

OK. If removed from mom it will breathe on its own and continue to grow - it’s not murder then is it?

You wont address your premise. Fine with me. You have now drug the conversation far from reality.

If what is removed from the mother?

Lets be very specific, it appears you have no understanding of the biology of the early stage of life.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

whitehall220116-#3 “We saw a bunch of unarmed mom and pop demonstrators and an unarmed woman shot dead by federal cops and a year later the left tells us how the demonstration was "supposed" to go down? It was supposed to go down peacefully until left wing dirty tricksters led the group into criminal trespass“


NFBW: because of the reality that many of the crazy right Trump supporters who attacked the US Capitol on January 6, 2021 and they are fervent anti-abortion voters and possibly extremists, I believe it’s prudent to check on your concept of reality state of mind on what you said in January 2022 about your belief that the attack on the US capital was a result of dirty tricksters from the left setting the MAGA “Stop the steal” protesting mob up. Do you still believe that nonsense?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

If what is removed from the mother?

Let’s say an eight week old zygote to a 10 week old fetus by a safe and legal medical procedure in states that remain with a sense of freedom for woman because they are not governed by white right wing Christian extremists but support candidates like Herschel Walker who paid to have the one cell egg he fertilized removed from his girlfriend’s uterus. Only women he knocks up will have choice to terminate pregnancies if he gets in the Senate with a saved by Jesus US Senate.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Abortion, something the founders never fathomed.. Abortion not a right.

So you meant to say abortion rights based on privacy like the Roe vs Wade ruling was unforeseable. OK. What’s the point? Please use words that mean what want to say next time.

 

[elektra]

Let’s say an eight week old zygote to a 10 week old fetus ...

Let's say, a zygote is a single cell that quickly becomes a ball of cells that is never referred to as a zygote after a few days.

There is not much to discuss. We have reached a point in our history, medical knowledge has advance, to the point we can stop the barbaric procedure of removing life from where life grows, inside the womb, which deserves more protections than anything else in this world.